.223 feeding issue.

IDPA Mike

IDPA Mike

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I have had 4 of my reloads jam in the chamber.
I check them all several times before the get to the gun.
It has happened occasionally and I do not know why.
The shoulder seems to crush down. Pics are attached.
Any help is welcomed.





Thanks, Mike
 
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To me, that looks like a classic case of your bullet seater die set down to far in the press.
 
PatMcD said:
To me, that looks like a classic case of your bullet seater die set down to far in the press.
Click to expand...

It did not look that way when I put it in the mag.
None of the necks are crushed when the bullet is seated.
Thats what happened when the bolt pushed it into the chamber.
All of my rounds have an OAL of 2.220 .
when this round was chambered,it did not seat all the way,nor with the forward assist, it was a tough round to extract from the rifle.
I just do not know how it is happening.
All of my brass is trimmed to 1.750. Just a whisker below the case guage.

Thanks, Mike
 
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Well, if it wasn't that way before it was chambered, then the bullet tip was forced back into the case. The bullet couldn't go back in the case so it crushed it. Do you crimp your bullets? Don't do that.

Back to chambering issues: the round went into the chamber and did this? It didn't get hung up anywhere on the barrel extension?

Does it do this with factory ammo?

Try a different mag?
 
If you click on the top photo, and wait for it to show up as the large size, and then do the zoom, you'll see that he's doing a SEVERE roll crimp.

We've had any number of threads here advising against any crimping on necked rifle rounds.

And, the mistake most new reloaders try to make is to crimp into the cannelure, which often times makes the OAL wrong (because the bullet manufacturers don't put the cannelure in a proper location in every instance).

Chances are that your severe roll crimping started the process of collapsing the neck, and the too long OAL caused the rifling to push the bullet into the collapsing neck even more. I'm surprised that you were able to even extract the round from your gun.

My suggestions:

1) DON'T crimp
2) Ignore the location of the cannelure
3) Set the bullet to the length suggested by your reloading data book

To set the bullet seating die for NO CRIMP:

Install a filled case in the shell holder. Raise the ram to the full upright position. Back off the bullet seating part of the die quite a bit. Then, screw in the die until the die just touches the top edge of the case mouth. That is zero crimp. Tighten the locking ring. Now, adjust the bullet seating part of the die until the bullet gets seated at the right depth. Done.
 
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Is it possible that a few cases slipped by and didn't get sized? I kind of doubt it because the neck would probably not hold the bullet on an unsized case, but I have seen stranger things happen.
 
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If you click on the top photo, and wait for it to show up as the large size, and then do the zoom, you'll see that he's doing a SEVERE roll crimp.We've had any number of threads here advising against any crimping on necked rifle rounds. And, the mistake most new reloaders try to make is to crimp into the cannelure, which often times makes the OAL wrong (because the bullet manufacturers don't put the cannelure in a proper location in every instance). Chances are that your severe roll crimping started the process of collapsing the neck, and the too long OAL caused the rifling to push the bullet into the collapsing neck even more. I'm surprised that you were able to even extract the round from your gun. My suggestions:1) DON'T crimp2) Ignore the location of the cannelure3) Set the bullet to the length suggested by your reloading data bookTo set the bullet seating die for NO CRIMP:Install a filled case in the shell holder. Raise the ram to the full upright position. Back off the bullet seating part of the die quite a bit. Then, screw in the die until the die just touches the top edge of the case mouth. That is zero crimp. Tighten the locking ring. Now, adjust the bullet seating part of the die until the bullet gets seated at the right depth. Done.

Sorry to blow yor theory Duke. I do not crimp. I have a seater die with a micrometer. I installed it the way you said then adjusted to my oal per the manual with the powder I use. My other post read, it was fine until it was chambered. I will post a pic later of my completed rounds for your viewing help. Thanks, Mike.
 
With all due respect, Mike, the photo CLEARLY shows a well rounded over case mouth. Either you "accidently" did a roll crimp by setting up the die wrong, or some cases didn't get trimmed to the proper length, and got smacked (and rolled) in the die when you were seating the bullets. If you missed some parts in the trimming process, you'd accidentally get those roll crimped.

If you only got a few of these (rather than the whole batch), I would suggest the second option was the culprit.

Either way, I'd suggest that you take a look at the samples that you took a picture of, under a magnifier, and see if that doesn't look like a roll crimp to you.

Usually, a trim to length, and then deburr, shows pronounced "machining" edges, and not a burnished lookin curve like your photo indicates.

We don't have much to go on here, other than your description, and the photos.

Take another, closer look, and see what it looks like.

Do us another favor: Use a caliper, and give us a case length, from the same lot, before placing in the chamber, and one of the parts from your photos. That might also tell us a few things.
ammoissue002.jpg
 
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DukeInMaine said:
If you click on the top photo, and wait for it to show up as the large size, and then do the zoom, you'll see that he's doing a SEVERE roll crimp.

We've had any number of threads here advising against any crimping on necked rifle rounds.

And, the mistake most new reloaders try to make is to crimp into the cannelure, which often times makes the OAL wrong (because the bullet manufacturers don't put the cannelure in a proper location in every instance).

Chances are that your severe roll crimping started the process of collapsing the neck, and the too long OAL caused the rifling to push the bullet into the collapsing neck even more. I'm surprised that you were able to even extract the round from your gun.

My suggestions:

1) DON'T crimp
2) Ignore the location of the cannelure
3) Set the bullet to the length suggested by your reloading data book

To set the bullet seating die for NO CRIMP:

Install a filled case in the shell holder. Raise the ram to the full upright position. Back off the bullet seating part of the die quite a bit. Then, screw in the die until the die just touches the top edge of the case mouth. That is zero crimp. Tighten the locking ring. Now, adjust the bullet seating part of the die until the bullet gets seated at the right depth. Done.
Click to expand...

Ceck out these pics Duke.
Let me know what you see.

http://s763.photobucket.com/albums/xx273/flemster59/amoo issue/
 
From what I can you've over done your deburring on the inside and outside of your cases
When I dedurr I just cut a slight edge on the inside,as far as the outdide I let my fingers tell me all. I go lightly on the outside with my deburring tool untill I feel no burr then stop.
If the case mouth looks like a knife edge you've over did deburring.
 
Measure the case length (not overall length) on one of the crushed ones, please.

IDPA Mike said:
Ceck out these pics Duke.
Let me know what you see.

http://s763.photobucket.com/albums/xx273/flemster59/amoo issue/
Click to expand...

Just putting an incorrect knife edge on the deburr won't cause this, though.
highlander said:
From what I can you've over done your deburring on the inside and outside of your cases
When I dedurr I just cut a slight edge on the inside,as far as the outdide I let my fingers tell me all. I go lightly on the outside with my deburring tool untill I feel no burr then stop.
If the case mouth looks like a knife edge you've over did deburring.
Click to expand...
 
DukeInMaine said:
Measure the case length (not overall length) on one of the crushed ones, please.



Just putting an incorrect knife edge on the deburr won't cause this, though.
Click to expand...

I took the bullet out with a plier,so as not to elongate the brass with the kinetic puller. My trimmed case length is 1.750. The damaged case length is 1.740 .
Looking at and feeling the mouth of the brass,it is turned outward ,and with a sharp edge.When I Deburr, i just try to feel for a smooth edge.
I wonder if the brass mouth edge caught something while driving forwad into the chamber to get stuck and caused this?
I use a Hornady case prep center with spinning chamfer/deburr tools attached.
These photos are taken with a magnification lens of 48x . Then its magnified 60-100 times with photo shop.
Looking at the brass by eye, the chamfer does not look as extreme as the photo
The chamfer from top to bottom is 0.004

Thanks, Mike
 
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I had a case do that, albeit more severely, when I tried to slide the bullet into a collet bullet puller without loosening the collet or removing the last bullet. The case mushroomed where the shoulder begins to angle inward. I'd say your bullet tip hit something. Is the rim damaged at all? (the part that goes into the shellholder on your press) I've had a few cases where the base rim was bent and wouldn't fit into or stay in the bolt properly causing a misfeed. A few of them sunk the bullet back into the case. If they were crimped they might have collapsed the shoulder.
 
swampy said:
I had a case do that, albeit more severely, when I tried to slide the bullet into a collet bullet puller without loosening the collet or removing the last bullet. The case mushroomed where the shoulder begins to angle inward. I'd say your bullet tip hit something. Is the rim damaged at all? (the part that goes into the shellholder on your press) I've had a few cases where the base rim was bent and wouldn't fit into or stay in the bolt properly causing a misfeed. A few of them sunk the bullet back into the case. If they were crimped they might have collapsed the shoulder.
Click to expand...

Every once in a while, my bullet feeder gets stuck. It'a like the floating bullet seater goes above the alignment sleeve and stops the ram from going up.I jiggle it, and it works fine. This could be my issue.
 
I use a crimp with my 55 gr IMI bullets (with a cannelure). As long as the brass is trimmed to the proper length, the crimp is right on the cannelure. I only crimp bullets with a cannelure.
 
I have a similar problem, I just purchased some ammo from my local reloader and it seams the cases fit tight in my camber, it's very hard to cycle the rounds, but the factory Remington and wincester ammo cycles fine. I haven't shot them yet, just cycled 30 rounds by hand.

Do you think I'll be ok to just shoot them?
 
I have to agree on crimping the bullet, if you do not crimp you could have problems (this is a auto loader remember) the bullet bounces off the feed ramps into the chamber with the weight of the bolt pushing it right along...this could cause the bullet to seat lower in the case causing excessive pressure...Not so important in bolt action guns that are non magnum loads...Just my 2 cents
 
sschevy said:
I have to agree on crimping the bullet, if you do not crimp you could have problems (this is a auto loader remember) the bullet bounces off the feed ramps into the chamber with the weight of the bolt pushing it right along...this could cause the bullet to seat lower in the case causing excessive pressure...Not so important in bolt action guns that are non magnum loads...Just my 2 cents
Click to expand...

DukeInMaine said:
If you click on the top photo, and wait for it to show up as the large size, and then do the zoom, you'll see that he's doing a SEVERE roll crimp.

We've had any number of threads here advising against any crimping on necked rifle rounds.

And, the mistake most new reloaders try to make is to crimp into the cannelure, which often times makes the OAL wrong (because the bullet manufacturers don't put the cannelure in a proper location in every instance).

Chances are that your severe roll crimping started the process of collapsing the neck, and the too long OAL caused the rifling to push the bullet into the collapsing neck even more. I'm surprised that you were able to even extract the round from your gun.

My suggestions:

1) DON'T crimp
2) Ignore the location of the cannelure3) Set the bullet to the length suggested by your reloading data book

To set the bullet seating die for NO CRIMP:
Install a filled case in the shell holder. Raise the ram to the full upright position. Back off the bullet seating part of the die quite a bit. Then, screw in the die until the die just touches the top edge of the case mouth. That is zero crimp. Tighten the locking ring. Now, adjust the bullet seating part of the die until the bullet gets seated at the right depth. Done.
Click to expand...

Gammon said:
I use a crimp with my 55 gr IMI bullets (with a cannelure). As long as the brass is trimmed to the proper length, the crimp is right on the cannelure. I only crimp bullets with a cannelure.
Click to expand...

Now I'm confused. [thinking]
 
mike call the manufacture
hornady responed to me "if it has a cannelure apply the proper crimp for the application"
Im new to reloading and cant offer much more than "when in doubt or confused call the manufacture"
 
IDPA Mike said:
Now I'm confused. [thinking]
Click to expand...

If there is a cannelure in the bullet, and you think you absolutely have to have any sort of crimp, a very light crimp won't do any harm.
That being said, don't do it. You don't need it and don't want it. If the jarring from the action of a semi-auto sets your bullets back in the neck, then you have other problems (like your sizing button is too big).

I've only loaded maybe 10,000 rds of .223. Probably 9000 of those were with bullets that had no cannelure. I've never crimped anything.
 
theres no roll crimp there. thats from deburring.

im 99% sure your cases are under-sized. IE, you didnt bump the shoulder back far enough (if this only happens occassionally, you more than likely short stroked the press, and didnt size the case completely. by doing that, the shoulder was out too far. when the bolt slammed home on that round, it set back the shoulder itself, and started crushing the case. im surprised it went completely into battery being that long (is all this brass stuff that came out of your gun? or perhaps range pickup from something with a VERY generous chamber.

use a headspace gauge. if its too long, your doing something wrong. you dont necessarily have to size back to "0" (IE a go-gauge), but it has to be set back far enough to chamber in your rifle.
 
jasper touches a good point, I had some range brass that I couldnt even comfortably run through the sizer. I had a few stuck cases. hot loads in a loose chamber ?
Hope you figure it out.
 
I have readjusted my sizing die. So far I have not had this issue since. I think I may have had it set a little low,if that mattered.
I do not crimp. I missed a primer and had to use the kinetic puller,and it took 3-4 good whacks to release the bullet from the casing. I think there is a good snug fit without crimping.
As for sizing, I adjust my die per the directions of the case gage. Set the bottom of the case to fit,then adjust the top . Trim any excess .
All are trimmed to 1.750 for consistency,as some do not come out long enough for the 1.760 .
Thanks for the help.
Heres hoping [grin]
 
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