.223 Reloading Problem (I think?)

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ra5451

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Hi All,

I just picked up my second Ar-15 and I'm having a problem with my (once fired) reloads going through it. I took the ones that didn't fire and put them in the other AR-15 and they went thru just fine. I was told that the sizing may be off. Does this make sense and is there anyone close to Grafton that may have a sizing meterI can borrow for the day so I can check to see if it's to spec?
 
"Sizing meter?"

Do you mean a dial or digital caliber? You should not be reloading rifle ammo w/o one.

Do you mean a case gauge? Not that expensive and a quick Go/No Go tool.
 
It's a Colt lower with a S&W M&P15 16" Upper....

The rounds aren't chambering correctly and the bolt doesn't go in all the way. This leads me to believe the reloads are not sized correctly.

I'm looking for a Case Guage...

I do use a Micrometer....
 
ra5451 said:
It's a Colt lower with a S&W M&P15 16" Upper....

The rounds aren't chambering correctly and the bolt doesn't go in all the way. This leads me to believe the reloads are not sized correctly.

I'm looking for a Case Guage...

I do use a Micrometer....
Click to expand...

what are you doing loading rifle cartridges without a headspace/case gage? how do you set the headspace on your sizing die? has the headspace on the upper been checked?
 
Mike_Diako said:
This may be a silly question but is it chambered .223 or 5.56?
Click to expand...


That's not a silly question, the headspace on a 5.56 chamber is a touch longer than a .223 chamber. so a once fired piece of brass shot out of a 5.56 chamber not resized to the .223 spec would be hard pressed to fit a .223 chamber. chamber length canand most likely will vary from barrel to barrel of the same caliber.
 
Mbushy...I use the micrometer to check the sizes...Also, how do u check the headspace on the upper...

Mike...Great question...My old AR is .223 and the new one is 5.56...but according to bushy, there's more room not less....
 
Are you full length sizing the brass or just neck sizing. As far as the previous question, I didn't want to insult anyone's intelligence. [laugh]
 
It doesn't sound like you have a headspace issue, more you are not setting your sizing die correctly. If you resize to .223 specs you should have no problem stuffing them into a 5.56 chamber. If you want to check the headspace on your upper you will need to get a no-go and field guage, don't be surprised if the bolt closes on the no-go guage on a 5.56 chamber because a commercial no-go guage is shorter than a military one in fact the commercial field guage is shorter than the military no-go guage.
 
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Ok...I just ordered a case gauge and a go/nogo gauge....We'll see what happens when I get them... I suspect that it's a headspace issue...Thank everyone!
 
STOP!

Get some advice (hands on) from somebody experienced in rifle before you blow up a gun or hurt or kill someone. Re-read the ABC's of reloading a few times. Unless of course, guessing is good enough.
 
I know you already ordered case gauge....but future reference optics planet has them a bit cheaper and no shipping after 30 dollars....sorry just looking at this thread now.
 
Fixxah said:
STOP!

Get some advice (hands on) from somebody experienced in rifle before you blow up a gun or hurt or kill someone. Re-read the ABC's of reloading a few times. Unless of course, guessing is good enough.
Click to expand...

+1,ra5451 After re-reading your posts it kinda sounds as if your new to this (forgive me if I'm wrong). But if you are Fixxah's advise is right on, hook up with someone who has been doing this for a while and read, read, read...

Good luck
 
I've reloaded (10 years ago) many pistol rounds...Just getting back into reloading and rifle loading is new to me...Thankx for the advise
 
You need gauges to measure your cases. Hornady makes a headspace gauge that mounts to a caliper that allows you to measure case headspace accurately. For an example, ammo that functioned well in your rifle you can measure the headspace of the case before and after firing and determine how much the shoulder moved forward on firing and then set your sizing die accordingly. Shoulder setback is usually .003"-.004" when properly sized. Different brand brass will set back differently due to the alloy composition(hardness or softness) of the cases. Some numbers for you: Trim to length 1.750" Case head diameter .378" . max. magazine length ammo is 2.260". If you ever get into Highpower competition you'll shoot long 80 grain bullets that can't be safely loaded to mag length and require a bullet comparator to measure their relationship to the lands of the barrel. The gauge size for 223 R is .330" that references off the datum line of the case to the case head. The datum line is about halfway down the shoulder of the case. If factory ammunition is working in the gun I would suspect your reloads first. Don't shoot anymore of them, you could have a slamfire or worse an out of battery firing. Winchester brass is quality stuff and recommended. So is military Lake City. You can purchase processed brass from Scharch Co., quality stuff. LE Wilson case gauges are excellent quick check in your reloading process, Midway has those too. A couple books to look at Handloading for Competition by Glen Zediker is excellent, so is Precision Shooting Guide to Reloading. 5.56NATO has a larger throat to chamber all the different Military ammo out there. We load 223R. Federal 223 wiith a 55gr is different than Fed XM193. The 5.56 stuff is higher pressure and velocity. There's alot to wrap your head around but if you take your time and are methodical you'll produce safe, reliable, accurate ammo everytime.
 
Last edited:
tdeon221 said:
You need gauges to measure your cases. Hornady makes a headspace gauge that mounts to a caliper that allows you to measure case headspace accurately. For an example, ammo that functioned well in your rifle you can measure the headspace of the case before and after firing and determine how much the shoulder moved forward on firing and then set your sizing die accordingly. Shoulder setback is usually .003"-.004" when properly sized. Different brand brass will set back differently due to the alloy composition(hardness or softness) of the cases. Some numbers for you: Trim to length 1.750" Case head diameter .378" . max. magazine length ammo is 2.260". If you ever get into Highpower competition you'll shoot long 80 grain bullets that can't be safely loaded to mag length and require a bullet comparator to measure their relationship to the lands of the barrel. The gauge size for 223 R is .400" that references off the datum line of the case to the case head. The datum line is about halfway down the shoulder of the case. If factory ammunition is working in the gun I would suspect your reloads first. Don't shoot anymore of them, you could have a slamfire or worse an out of battery firing. Winchester brass is quality stuff and recommended. So is military Lake City. You can purchase processed brass from Scharch Co., quality stuff. LE Wilson case gauges are excellent quick check in your reloading process, Midway has those too. A couple books to look at Handloading for Competition by Glen Zediker is excellent, so is Precision Shooting Guide to Reloading. 5.56NATO has a larger throat to chamber all the different Military ammo out there. We load 223R. Federal 223 wiith a 55gr is different than Fed XM193. The 5.56 stuff is higher pressure and velocity. There's alot to wrap your head around but if you take your time and are methodical you'll produce safe, reliable, accurate ammo everytime.
Click to expand...

That's a good post. The Zediker book is a must have. It has all the answers on .223 in an easy to understand delivery.

One of the things I've seen on the forum is people saying how they resize their .223 as they would pistol rounds by just bottoming out the die on the shell plate. That doesn't work all the time. You don't know how much you are setting the shoulder back that way. With the proper gages, like the Hornady, you can see that if you do that and you bump the shoulder back too much you actually distort the case to the point where it won't drop in a Wilson case gage. At that point it mistakenly looks like you are not resizing enough. There was a post like that a while back where the OP kept claiming they had a defective die.

Get the book and the gages. You can also rent Tubbs precision reloading DVD from SmartFlix.com
 
tdeon221 said:
You need gauges to measure your cases. Hornady makes a headspace gauge that mounts to a caliper that allows you to measure case headspace accurately. For an example, ammo that functioned well in your rifle you can measure the headspace of the case before and after firing and determine how much the shoulder moved forward on firing and then set your sizing die accordingly. Shoulder setback is usually .003"-.004" when properly sized. Different brand brass will set back differently due to the alloy composition(hardness or softness) of the cases. Some numbers for you: Trim to length 1.750" Case head diameter .378" . max. magazine length ammo is 2.260". If you ever get into Highpower competition you'll shoot long 80 grain bullets that can't be safely loaded to mag length and require a bullet comparator to measure their relationship to the lands of the barrel. The gauge size for 223 R is .400" that references off the datum line of the case to the case head. The datum line is about halfway down the shoulder of the case. If factory ammunition is working in the gun I would suspect your reloads first. Don't shoot anymore of them, you could have a slamfire or worse an out of battery firing. Winchester brass is quality stuff and recommended. So is military Lake City. You can purchase processed brass from Scharch Co., quality stuff. LE Wilson case gauges are excellent quick check in your reloading process, Midway has those too. A couple books to look at Handloading for Competition by Glen Zediker is excellent, so is Precision Shooting Guide to Reloading. 5.56NATO has a larger throat to chamber all the different Military ammo out there. We load 223R. Federal 223 wiith a 55gr is different than Fed XM193. The 5.56 stuff is higher pressure and velocity. There's alot to wrap your head around but if you take your time and are methodical you'll produce safe, reliable, accurate ammo everytime.
Click to expand...

Thankx for the excellent post TDeon....I had done lots of handgun loading in the past and this is the first rifle loads. I ordered the case length and go/nogo gauges. Thankx for taking the tie to explain the above...Where r u located?
 
GTOShootr said:
That's a good post. The Zediker book is a must have. It has all the answers on .223 in an easy to understand delivery.

One of the things I've seen on the forum is people saying how they resize their .223 as they would pistol rounds by just bottoming out the die on the shell plate. That doesn't work all the time. You don't know how much you are setting the shoulder back that way. With the proper gages, like the Hornady, you can see that if you do that and you bump the shoulder back too much you actually distort the case to the point where it won't drop in a Wilson case gage. At that point it mistakenly looks like you are not resizing enough. There was a post like that a while back where the OP kept claiming they had a defective die.

Get the book and the gages. You can also rent Tubbs precision reloading DVD from SmartFlix.com
Click to expand...

Thankx for the info GTO....

BTW I love GTO's
 
Glad to give a little help. Saugsus, MA. I shoot highpower so I have some experience loading for AR's and have made my share of mistakes. The investment in tools will make things less frustrating and consistant, you won't be tempted to tie the gun to a tree with a lanyard to test your handiwork. If you go to the Fulton Armory website they have pictures of what happens to AR's with bad reloads.

Tom
 
Hello;
I've been loading for over 40 years and have a fair amount of experience loading 5.56 and 7.62 ammo for service rifles. I had typed up a lengthy post on a number of things which could cause the problem you describe, but the server timed out on me and I lost it all. Since I HATE typing, I just can't bring myself to retype it all again. If you are still having problems, maybe there is a way you could contact me, and I could go into depth on the subject.
Regards, tripwire
 
Tripwire,
Thankx for the offer...Sorry the server went down on you [smile] I just got my go/nogo gauges in the mail today and I'm waiting on my length gauge now..Your help would greatly be appreciated. Maybe you can PM me your contact info..

Thankx
 
Got the Case Length Gauge today and started reloading some...It worked out very well....The only problem I'm having is that I'm using a Lee Pro 1000 and it doesn't work as well as it does with pistol ammunition. We're having to load one at a time for the rifle ammo...At least it's working....
 
Glad you got some tools. Alot of us size/deprime on a single stage then prime, charge, seat on the progressive for 223. That way, all the case prep (which is what takes the longest) is done and out of the way. With the Lee that might be the way to go so it doesn't break. (been there, done that). Not a knock on Lee, just my experience. Are you having trouble at a particular stage in the process? What brass are you using? What case lube? Primers?

Tom
 
tdeon221 said:
Glad you got some tools. Alot of us size/deprime on a single stage then prime, charge, seat on the progressive for 223. That way, all the case prep (which is what takes the longest) is done and out of the way. With the Lee that might be the way to go so it doesn't break. (been there, done that). Not a knock on Lee, just my experience. Are you having trouble at a particular stage in the process? What brass are you using? What case lube? Primers?

Tom
Click to expand...


this is what i do over the winter months. size/deprime, swage the primer pockets, trim to length and chamfer/deburr the necks. i'll get all my brass ready over the winter so when i need to reload, i can crank through a bunch on my progressive without the time consuming case prep steps.
 
I'm unsure if this has been covered yet, but are you neck sizing or full length sizing? You should always full length size with an autoloader. Also, if the OAL of the reloads are longer than factory ammo that was cycling good, maybe the bullet is jamming the rifling before the bolt closes. Good luck, I hope it all works out!
 

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