2nd Amendment discussion in Sociology class pissed me off today

[terraformer]

So I had my second Sociology class today of this semester, and near the end of the class the professor was demonstrating a particular area of sociology by having us all estimate certain numbers of deaths for homicides, motor vehicle accidents, etc... After performing this exercise he randomly brought up the 2nd Amendment (since we were talking about statistics) and basically said "it's your own business if you want to own a gun...but here's the statistics...one who has firearms in their household is 8 times more likely to harm somebody they love than a potential 'bad guy' they may or may not ever come into contact with." He based this statistic on a husband getting angry with his wife and shooting her out of blatant anger, a child finding a firearm and accidentally discharging it, killing themselves or a friend, etc... I think this is absolute bullshit...Are there really that many people out there who are this negligent? And especially with the storage laws in Mass the child part would certainly almost never apply unless the firearm wasn't stored correctly. After this he went off on a Bush rant and how unintelligent he is...so in the end I tried to brush it off and just tell myself he was another typical moonbat professor. But it still bothers me... I think in I'm going to wear one of my favorite Smith and Wesson t-shirts to the next class on Tuesday in protest!

He botched the talking point. The true brady talking point is a home with a gun is 8x more likely to have that gun kill a family member than a bad guy. Read that again. Why?

Suicides.

 

[bhmax16]

I didn't even think about the suicide aspect...yet it's so obvious! I must have been too pissed to think. And yes if it was an unbiased "fact" he was giving then it wouldn't include suicides...but his spiel obviously was completely biased so it's quite obvious it would include suicide in the home by means of a firearm!

I'm not going to drop him as a professor because of this (hell add/drop ended today anyway so too late either way)...but I am going to where the shirt to Tuesday's class so I will be sure to report back afterwords letting you all know whether anything happens

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

I didn't even think about the suicide aspect...yet it's so obvious! I must have been too pissed to think. And yes if it was an unbiased "fact" he was giving then it wouldn't include suicides...but his spiel obviously was completely biased so it's quite obvious it would include suicide in the home by means of a firearm!

I'm not going to drop him as a professor because of this (hell add/drop ended today anyway so too late either way)...but I am going to where the shirt to Tuesday's class so I will be sure to report back afterwords letting you all know whether anything happens

Some knowingly use this statistic because it furthers their agenda. Others are just too ignorant to research the data. My statistics professor in college said "give me an agenda and I can give you the statistics to prove it". This goes back to that whole critical thinking thing.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

He botched the talking point. The true brady talking point is a home with a gun is 8x more likely to have that gun kill a family member than a bad guy. Read that again. Why?

Suicides.

The Brady Organization needs to shut up. They wanted a 1 week waiting period for a first time handgun purchase. Well, they got it in most states. To be honest, I don't have a big issue, except in the case of a woman with a stalker or violent threats (and situations similar). Those have an urgency that can be justified. So go to your damn lake house and leave us citizens alone. You people got what you wanted.

 

[Titan]

How many girls/women/children of various ages have disappeared, been covered on cable, and later found dead, just in the past year?

I wonder how many might have been prevented if the women were armed and schooled in self defense.

What I'm certain of, is that I can't remember a single one who was shot to death.


Just look at Drew Peterson (cop)...two wives missing...one drowned in a dry bath tub, and one simply missing. He had several guns, yet no sign of gun violence in either case.

Would suicides really not kill themselves if guns were unavailable?

As long as the stats included gang on gang violence, there will be distortions.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

How many girls/women/children of various ages have disappeared, been covered on cable, and later found dead, just in the past year?

I wonder how many might have been prevented if the women were armed and schooled in self defense.

What I'm certain of, is that I can't remember a single one who was shot to death.


Just look at Drew Peterson (cop)...two wives missing...one drowned in a dry bath tub, and one simply missing. He had several guns, yet no sign of gun violence in either case.

Would suicides really not kill themselves if guns were unavailable?

As long as the stats included gang on gang violence, there will be distortions.

Not to mention that many of those gang on gang violence incidents are part of the children population. Yes, that's right!! Anyone under the age of 21 is classified as a child in these statistics! So when you see that billboard on MassPike about a child in the country being killed every so many minutes, you can bet that the chances of it being one of those cute little grade school kids on the billboard is virtually nil. Most likely Pookey the addict was shot by Ray Ray the drug dealer because he doesn't have his money.

 

[RKG]

What I would do is pass this teacher a note along the following lines: "Mr. X, I found your statistics on the likelihood of a gun owner using it against his family very interesting. Can you provide me a reference so that I can take a look?"

If you get a reference, study it and then, if you like, you can respond with better statistics.

Do a good job, and a dollar to a doughnut says you get extra credit.

 

[Pilgrim]

I'd stick it out and whenever possible 'correct' him with true facts while in the class, not in private sessions with him. Leaving still leaves the rest of your classmates in the indoctrination chamber.

 

[drgrant]

Would suicides really not kill themselves if guns were unavailable?

Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world and very, very few people own guns in Japan. Most of the time the people gas themselves inside a car or a bathroom with commonly available chemicals.

-Mike

 

[TheRoland]

So, unless I missed something, this was one offhanded comment as an example on the second day of a class not about firearms.

Let it go, or just bring it up once. This isn't an earth-shattering scandal. And wear whatever shirt you want.

 

[hietpasr]

So I had my second Sociology class today of this semester, and near the end of the class the professor was demonstrating a particular area of sociology by having us all estimate certain numbers of deaths for homicides, motor vehicle accidents, etc... After performing this exercise he randomly brought up the 2nd Amendment (since we were talking about statistics) and basically said "it's your own business if you want to own a gun...but here's the statistics...one who has firearms in their household is 8 times more likely to harm somebody they love than a potential 'bad guy' they may or may not ever come into contact with." He based this statistic on a husband getting angry with his wife and shooting her out of blatant anger, a child finding a firearm and accidentally discharging it, killing themselves or a friend, etc... I think this is absolute bullshit...Are there really that many people out there who are this negligent? And especially with the storage laws in Mass the child part would certainly almost never apply unless the firearm wasn't stored correctly. After this he went off on a Bush rant and how unintelligent he is...so in the end I tried to brush it off and just tell myself he was another typical moonbat professor. But it still bothers me... I think in I'm going to wear one of my favorite Smith and Wesson t-shirts to the next class on Tuesday in protest!

Hey man, I know exactly how you feel as I've been in post-secondary education for a while now. The simple fact of the matter is professors will always push their own agenda, but you need to be a big enough person to let them express their views and keep your mouth shut. You are paying an F-ton of money for your education, and taking a lower grade in a class because you wanted to challenge them is simply not worth it. Bide your time and just let it pass through one ear and out the other.

Contacting the administration about anything like this will only result in a negative outcome for you (as the administration probably shares the same view, and you are a student number to them). I know a lot of people here are going to tell you to fight it, but from experience, it's simply not worth it at this point in your life.

 

[jhblaze1]

Statistics mean nothing to the individual. That is to say that whether true or dubiously arrived at, it matters little to a woman with a dead rapist at her feet if "you're 8 times more likley to hurt or kill a loved one than a bad guy".

Moreover, those stats sound like the cover text of a violence policy center or Brady bunch brochure and hearing such statistics in a sociology (a science, if you want to call it that, that is dominated by barking moonbats) ought not surprise you.

 

[Bob P]

The stat can be both accurate and BS at the same time. Yes, a gun owner MAY be 8X more likely to use a gun on a family member - accidentally or otherwise - then on a bad guy, but so what? All that means is being attacked by a bad-guy is still (thankfully) a rare occurrence in the US.

BTW, so is a grease fire, but I still have a fire extingusher in my kitchen.

The problem with stats is that w/o context they're meaningless. This is one of those meaningless stats. OWNING a gun doesn't make you more likely to beat your wife then not. Someone who is prepared to turn a gun on a family member is going to do something horrible to them anyway. Further, if you're the kind of person a stat like that would BOTHER (meaning you don't like the idea of turning a gun on a family member) YOU are not the person we need to be worried about. The person we need to WORRY about won't give a shite about a stat like that anyway - so it's meaningless. Just like how restrictive gun laws DON'T make us safer - cause the people that follow them aren't going to commit the crimes and the people that ARE ignore the law anyway.

 

[Bill Katt]

Wear your shirts. If he strikes up conversation about them, offer to take him to the range. Get him interested in the sport if at all possible (keep a few copies of the "gunfacts" stats with you so that you can pass on more credible info to him and others). Maybe you'll get lucky and get yourself a convert that can actually spread the good word to the flock rather than poor misguided and manipulated stats.

 

[GOAL C.M.]

Go through these stats and have your genius professor refute them.

Bet he can't.

http://www.massgunlawreform.com/Evidence.htm

 

[bhmax16]

So I've decided not to fight the professor outright. I may perhaps invite him to the range once I build a relationship with him (keep in mind I've only had 2 classes with him thus far). Maybe after 1-2 months when we really know each other I'll pop the question and see what he says. I will certainly brush up on my stats and keep a copy of them with me for reference if need-be. I wonder if I succeed in converting him, or at least showing him the good side of firearm ownership...maybe he'll be impressed enough to give me some extra points I'm still wearing the shirt Tuesday though, so we'll see where things go from there. Excellent points all of you have made

 

[Bill Nance]

You're going to run into lots of profs who talk about their politics, especially in liberal arts classes like sociology, where in fairness, a discussion of firearm death statistics is fair game.

Arm yourself with the facts and courteously and persuasively state your case. The actual incidences of profs down-grading people for disagreeing with them is pretty small. As a matter of fact, if you're smart and present a strong case, you're likely to get a better grade. Profs like people willing to stand up and present an alternative viewpoint. They just don't like people who state a position and don't have anything to back it up with and won't listen to an alternative view.

I sat in a US Government class with a wild-eyed liberal prof who was raised on welfare and gave her chapter and verse on how bad traditional welfare was for the country. I got an A+ in the class. Don't be so sensitive.

 

[vlad]

I knew one prof who was VERY pro 2a (at least one belt fed) who would shot these off for shits and gigls just to see how people reacted, then agin he was engineering and not sociology.

 

[TomH]

Take a step back for a second this is a sociology class with a liberal teacher, did you expect his view to be different. I took Sociology last year at HCC, you know what I did for the whole sesmester. I slept threw the class because it was a waste of time. Also I passed with an A, then again it was at community college. I really wouldn't get too pissed and shoot your mouth off, trust me I know what can come of that. But when these things happen use them as opportunitys to inform or enlighten the sheeple. If I were you I would wear the Smith and Wessons shirt and probably wear other Pro gun shirts. But watch out this teacher could be a dick and screw you for the class. Some times its better to pick and choose your battles.

Exactly. I took a modern american history class... moonbat prof and the students weren't much better. Just ignore it. You're already ahead by realizing what a bunch of bull it is.

 

[n1zfg]

If the subject comes up again, I'd be tempted to ask him a question like:

Do you think that the private ownership of small arms by a significant minority doesn't provide an additional deterrent effect against people who might not otherwise posses the usual moral deterrents to killing you?

But then again, his brain may not be able to process sentences longer than 10 words.
And just presenting the idea of him getting killed may get you tossed from the class.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

If the subject comes up again, I'd be tempted to ask him a question like:

Do you think that the private ownership of small arms by a significant minority doesn't provide an additional deterrent effect against people who might not otherwise posses the usual moral deterrents to killing you?

But then again, his brain may not be able to process sentences longer than 10 words.
And just presenting the idea of him getting killed may get you tossed from the class.

That, or just take away your rights. Jefferson was a BIG believer in firearms being a deterrent against tyrany.

 

[RFWAVELENGTH]

Perhaps you should remind that liberal professor that Jack The Ripper and Charlie Manson preferred knives to do their killing with. Does he suggest that we give up our kitchen cutlery or that the possession of such cutlery makes our home a much more dangerous place?

 

[Titan]

In England guns are banned, of course.

When they saw an upswing of incidents in which people were getting injured/killed by hoodlums with Samurai swords, they moved to ban the Samurai swords.

Failing to address the root of violent crime has always amazed me.

 

[bhmax16]

Ok guys...so I wore the shirt on Tuesday. Needless to say he did not comment on it, but I'm pretty sure he noticed it and I think he was HAPPY that I wore it! My observations:

He made constant eye contact with me throughout the class. This was the 3rd class with him so far, and this was the first out of the 3 I saw him paying very much particular attention to me, and not in a bad way

I was constantly answering questions throughout the class that the other students couldn't answer, displaying my somewhat above average intellect. And when even I couldn't answer something he specifically looked back at me and was like "stop being shy you know the answer speak up!" ...now I'm really happy as I can tell I've impressed him and he wants to hear me say more

Lastly, he was making a comparison in class and brought up the amount of the population that is left-handed...and I'll be damned I'm left-handed...and something tells me he came up with this particular example based on that observation (given I was sitting in front of the class room so he could have a really good look at me the entire time)

Overall, regardless of his 2A views, I gotta say I like the guy. I'm hoping the 2A issue pops up at another time during the semester as I feel I have earned his respect, and he'll have open ears whenever I express my opinion

 

[WayneWong]

Those who can, do
Those who can't, teach
Those who can't teach, teach gym.

 

[calsdad]

The most effective way to screw the guy is to video him during his class while he is spouting off on his own personal pet political theories (you know - instead of actually teaching) - then put together a nice video of all his "best of" moments.

Then post it on Youtube - let everybody know about it - by saying "hey look somebody videotaped Prof. Dipshit and posted it on Youtube" (not by saying "hey look what I did - because you could get in trouble)

And then let nature take it's course. If you are lucky it will spread enough to catch the right eyes - and the Prof will find himself in troubel because people far and wide will bitch to the administration of the school.

There are all sorts of small video devices out there now that can be used to do video. The Flip and and some others spring to mind.

Not sure of the legality of videotaping - but I suppose if the guy is loony you might even get permission to do it directly from him by saying you want to record it so you can use it for your lecture notes.

I got an A+ from my college sociology teacher who was a similar type of moonbat. Because I quickly learned to write down and parrot what he wanted to hear and ask questions in class that made him feel like I actually agreed with him.

Go thru the whole class tape the whole thing and get a good grade - after you are done, if somebody "steals" your video notes and posts them on Youtube it's not your fault.

You can either wear the gun t-shirt to class and piss the guy off, or just lay low, tell him what he wants to hear - accumulate the evidence of his lunacy, then do something that will have a real effect later by making him actually pay for what he is doing.

Your choice.

 

[Lank]

So I had my second Sociology class today of this semester, and near the end of the class the professor was demonstrating a particular area of sociology by having us all estimate certain numbers of deaths for homicides, motor vehicle accidents, etc... After performing this exercise he randomly brought up the 2nd Amendment (since we were talking about statistics) and basically said "it's your own business if you want to own a gun...but here's the statistics...one who has firearms in their household is 8 times more likely to harm somebody they love than a potential 'bad guy' they may or may not ever come into contact with." He based this statistic on a husband getting angry with his wife and shooting her out of blatant anger, a child finding a firearm and accidentally discharging it, killing themselves or a friend, etc... I think this is absolute bullshit...Are there really that many people out there who are this negligent? And especially with the storage laws in Mass the child part would certainly almost never apply unless the firearm wasn't stored correctly. After this he went off on a Bush rant and how unintelligent he is...so in the end I tried to brush it off and just tell myself he was another typical moonbat professor. But it still bothers me... I think in I'm going to wear one of my favorite Smith and Wesson t-shirts to the next class on Tuesday in protest!

Remind him that he is there, because you're there. You pay for an objective lesson in Sociology, not to hear his personal opinion. Also, remind him that communism and socialism brought us Chavez, Pol Pot and Year Zero, and of course, the Nazi National Socialist party. Over 100 million were slaughtered thanks to these leftists.

The best defense when dealing leftist academics is a good offense. I suggest reading Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg for a great overview of the damage the left has caused over the last 100 years. Liberals fight with feelings, we must retaliate with facts.

 

[owningpeoplesince1984]

Ok guys...so I wore the shirt on Tuesday. Needless to say he did not comment on it, but I'm pretty sure he noticed it and I think he was HAPPY that I wore it! My observations:

He made constant eye contact with me throughout the class. This was the 3rd class with him so far, and this was the first out of the 3 I saw him paying very much particular attention to me, and not in a bad way

I was constantly answering questions throughout the class that the other students couldn't answer, displaying my somewhat above average intellect. And when even I couldn't answer something he specifically looked back at me and was like "stop being shy you know the answer speak up!" ...now I'm really happy as I can tell I've impressed him and he wants to hear me say more

Lastly, he was making a comparison in class and brought up the amount of the population that is left-handed...and I'll be damned I'm left-handed...and something tells me he came up with this particular example based on that observation (given I was sitting in front of the class room so he could have a really good look at me the entire time)

Overall, regardless of his 2A views, I gotta say I like the guy. I'm hoping the 2A issue pops up at another time during the semester as I feel I have earned his respect, and he'll have open ears whenever I express my opinion

That is good that the guy seems to be coming around..Keep us informed on the outcome and I like Calsdad idea of video taping for a backup....In case you get screwed in the end...

 

[KBCraig]

bhmax16, it sounds like he's up for a challenge, and enjoys some give-and-take. So, I'd challenge him to cite those "8x" figures he gave, and to contrast them to domestic violence in homes without gun. I know that you know that he set up a false dichotomy; I just don't know if he knows that. I'd couch it in terms of, "I haven't heard that before. Where can I read more?"

 

[bfm]

www.guncite.com

Sorry if this was already posted.