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.308 battle rifles

84ta406

84ta406

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One of the few things I don't have and want are a classic .308 battle rifle. Looking at FAL, HK91/C308/PTR, and more specifically I was eye balling a Springfield M1A.

grabagun.com

Springfield Armory M1A Standard .308 Win / 7.62 X 51 22" Barrel 10-Rounds

The Springfield M1A Standard delivers excellent precision and performance in a reliable and durable rifle design. It comes chambered in .308 Winchester with a 22 inch barrel. Features include a fixed synthetic stock, a two-stage trigger, and a 10 round magazine. Buy guns online and .308 Win /...
grabagun.com grabagun.com

Just looking for feedback, pros and cons? I want a rifle that's fairly accurate especially with the iron sights with the option down the line to possibly put a scope on it but definitely want a nice semi auto .308 rifle.
 
Define "fairly accurate."

Military rifles are not designed for sub-MOA. They're designed to put men down by hitting them center of mass. All your listed choices can do that, and most of them did do that on the two-way firing range.

The .308 battle rifle that saw the most use was the FAL, fielded by both sides in many conflicts between the sixties and the eighties. I own and shoot one, and it's an awesome piece of equipment. The recoil is not bad at all, largely due to the weight of the piece and a well-designed recoil system. I've shot M1As and, though I like them, I like the FAL a lot better. You do live in MA, so FALs are not thick on the ground and most of us that have them want to keep them; a new piece from DSA, for example, is not really an option for you.

Of course, if you want to go tacticool and mount useless nonsense on your battle rifle, the FAL is unlikely to get you there compared to a modern M1A.. And I'm no help with that.
 
Briefly had an older M1A w/ USGI parts and it was a bit of a let down for me. Not sure what I was expecting honestly, but it wasn’t it! I guess it made me realize that I am more of a shooter than a collector so my plan is to eventually build an AR in .308.
 
84ta406 said:
One of the few things I don't have and want are a classic .308 battle rifle. Looking at FAL, HK91/C308/PTR, and more specifically I was eye balling a Springfield M1A.

grabagun.com

Springfield Armory M1A Standard .308 Win / 7.62 X 51 22" Barrel 10-Rounds

The Springfield M1A Standard delivers excellent precision and performance in a reliable and durable rifle design. It comes chambered in .308 Winchester with a 22 inch barrel. Features include a fixed synthetic stock, a two-stage trigger, and a 10 round magazine. Buy guns online and .308 Win /...
grabagun.com grabagun.com

Just looking for feedback, pros and cons? I want a rifle that's fairly accurate especially with the iron sights with the option down the line to possibly put a scope on it but definitely want a nice semi auto .308 rifle.
Click to expand...
M1A socom in a EBR stock
 
Here's how I'd rank them for actual living with as a person who lives in RI and isn't subject to an AWB - I have owned every one of these except the G3:

(1) FAL
(2) G3/CETME
(3) "Big bore" AK
(4) M14

(1) The FAL is the easiest gun to take apart and clean. The FAL opens up like a break-action shotgun and has like one or two lubrication points. Gas piston comes out a lot easier than an AK. Very optics friendly if you remember to raise the comb somehow. The gun separates into an easy-to-clean upper and lower that can be separated with a quarter and a punch. The FAL is sufficiently accurate for government work out to 400-600 yards depending on the shooter's abilities. Mags are plentiful and relatively inexpensive, and for Mass guys, primarily pre-ban. Adjustable gas system allows shooters to shoot any kind of .308 Winchester or 7.62 NATO.

The major FAL con is that the gas system can be fiddly to dial in if you're not shooting M80 ball or something like M80. Most guns leave the factory or gunsmith dialed in setup for M80. In comparison to other comparable guns, a FN 50.00-pattern gun is relatively light and agile. Compared to an AR15 in its traditional six-pound guise, the FAL is a pig.

(2) I haven't owned a G3 or CETME and can't speak for that gun other than I know the Swedes still use them and Spuhr makes very nice, very expensive aftermarket parts. I know the G3 is extremely reliable in tough conditions like mud and fouling. I found a Century C308 very ergonomic and nice and a PTR to handle like a 2x4. The G3's main advantages are its inexpensiveness and reliability. Disadvantage is the clunky action, with the charging handle on the left side near the front sight.

(3) Big bore AKs in 7.62x54r, .308, or 7.92x57 are really designated marksmens' rifles unless you're doing a faux x54r PK or RPK build. I owned a Vepr in 7.62x54r and it was simply an extremely fun gun to own. Most .30-caliber AKs have ten-round mags only. Import restrictions makes owning the ultimate .30-cal AK queen unobtanium unless you're willing to spend serious coin.

(4) The M1A comes apart easily. The gun's pretty reliable but doesn't handle mud well, as demonstrated by InRange. The main pro for Mass gun owners is that it isn't subject to your AWB. There's a lot of disadvantages:

*You can only shoot ammo within a specific pressure curve or you risk bending or breaking the op-rod
*Very hard and expensive to properly scope - a solid FAL scope mount is like $90, a M1A scope mount is like $200
*Springfield Armory donates/donated to anti-gun politicians in IL and gets most of their cast parts from Taiwan
*The gun handles like a Garand with a detachable magazine - very outdated handling and modernizing is extremely expensive
*Scout scope mounts suck ass

If this is your first .308 semi-auto and you're in Mass, I recommend the G3 clones. If you're in a free state, which OP is not, I recommend the FAL.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Picton said:
Define "fairly accurate."

Military rifles are not designed for sub-MOA. They're designed to put men down by hitting them center of mass. All your listed choices can do that, and most of them did do that on the two-way firing range.

The .308 battle rifle that saw the most use was the FAL, fielded by both sides in many conflicts between the sixties and the eighties. I own and shoot one, and it's an awesome piece of equipment. The recoil is not bad at all, largely due to the weight of the piece and a well-designed recoil system. I've shot M1As and, though I like them, I like the FAL a lot better. You do live in MA, so FALs are not thick on the ground and most of us that have them want to keep them; a new piece from DSA, for example, is not really an option for you.

Of course, if you want to go tacticool and mount useless nonsense on your battle rifle, the FAL is unlikely to get you there compared to a modern M1A.. And I'm no help with that.
Click to expand...
6-8" AR500 plates at 100-200 yards is what I'd like for accuracy, I honestly don't expect much more and have bolt actions that can stack on top of it ach other for that. No tacticool here, old school battle rifle. I have a CETME kit awaiting a barrel and such but was obviously looking at other things. I realize a FAL isn't the best choice due to receiver options and lack of 80% stuff out there. I love shooting my SKS but I don't reload for it and have no interest which is another reason I want a .308 rifle.
 
Just to add, I didn't mention the AR10 because there's the traditional AR10 and then the SR-25. That's really its own rabbit hole of discussion.
 
84ta406 said:
6-8" AR500 plates at 100-200 yards is what I'd like for accuracy, I honestly don't expect much more and have bolt actions that can stack on top of it ach other for that. No tacticool here, old school battle rifle. I have a CETME kit awaiting a barrel and such but was obviously looking at other things. I realize a FAL isn't the best choice due to receiver options and lack of 80% stuff out there. I love shooting my SKS but I don't reload for it and have no interest which is another reason I want a .308 rifle.
Click to expand...

I'm biased, but given your parameters I'd hold out for a plain-jane FAL. It'll likely take you awhile to find one, which means lots of time to save up for one.
 
C. Stockwell said:
Just to add, I didn't mention the AR10 because there's the traditional AR10 and then the SR-25. That's really its own rabbit hole of discussion.
Click to expand...
I was looking for a classic battle rifle type which is why I didn't mention a AR10 at all. However I have M1A mags and LR/SR25 mags for my MVP rifle already.
 
Picton said:
I'm biased, but given your parameters I'd hold out for a plain-jane FAL. It'll likely take you awhile to find one, which means lots of time to save up for one.
Click to expand...

Except for the G3, he's spending $1500+, especially in Mass. Just so we're clear.
 
Don’t have a Fal, but do have an M1A and a PTR-91. I like both rifles but prefer the M1A. It just runs smoother and I find it a little more accurate then the PTR. The PTR is a fun rifle, but heavy and it eats up the brass something awful.
 
Rockrivr1 said:
Don’t have a Fal, but do have an M1A and a PTR-91. I like both rifles but prefer the M1A. It just runs smoother and I find it a little more accurate then the PTR. The PTR is a fun rifle, but heavy and it eats up the brass something awful.
Click to expand...

I think if handloading is the ultimate concern, the M14 pattern guns win. The M14 is the .30-caliber CMP gun, also. But I wouldn't want to run and gun with a M14.
 
Yeh the issue is MA, for the price of a preban FAL, you can buy a brand new scar 17. M1a sure you can get one cheap but optics are a pain. Idk about the g3
 
Queen Bee said:
Yeh the issue is MA, for the price of a preban FAL, you can buy a brand new scar 17. M1a sure you can get one cheap but optics are a pain. Idk about the g3
Click to expand...

The SCAR isn't that much better than the FAL. On the clock and in the hands of the untrained, the SCAR was approximately one second faster than the FAL.

 
Queen Bee said:
Yeh the issue is MA, for the price of a preban FAL, you can buy a brand new scar 17.
Click to expand...

Not an issue for the OP. He's like me: a SCAR 17 wouldn't interest us, at any price, vs a FAL. What he wants is an old-skool battle rifle.
 
Ive got an older M1a, 70's version Supermatch. Reciever has no rear lug like the new ones do . Heavy walnut stock, and Heavy Krieger Match Barrel. With tweaked handloads, it would hold 1 min. Of angle at 600 yds. (thats off benchrest, im not that good). Now the recievers are rear lugged for accuracy. I got out of the National Match game and just like shooting at my own speed (slow). So i took it and put it into an Archangel Tactical Stock, with a Millett 35mm tube, LRS1 long range scope. Its an accurate rifle. Mine liked 41.5 grn. of H4895 under a Sierra 168g. HPBT seated at 2.800 For slowfire at 600yd. I seated it out longer to get closer to lands, hence less bullet jump. I cant remamber the OAL, but i did have to feed single shot as they were too long for magazine function........Enough said. Well maybe, Im working on a M1a Socom II that I plan on putting into a Sage Int. Ebr chassis. That'll be my battle rifle.....
 
Another option would be the Tavor 7 from Israel Weapon Industries, description and specs here, Tavor 7 – 7.62 NATO 16.5″ Barrel | IWI US, Inc.. Currently it's offered with a 14.5" barrel. Reportedly it's available now in Canada with a 20" barrel, and there are indications elsewhere on the web that 20" and/or 18.5" options will be introduced for the U.S. market in the near future.

Capture.JPG
 
M1A can be accurate with some minor tweaks. Look for something with at least a medium weight barrel. There are options other than Springfield that for a few bucks more will perform better. Here's my self built M14 / M1A based off of a Bula forged receiver and a USGI stock-

XLqYAnMl.jpg


1.2 MOA is usually my limit for iron sights at 100 yards but I can do a little better with this rifle. Note that it's a CMP as-issued rules compliant build, with no bedding of the stock, no extra lugs, etc., just careful fitting per the rules. If I don't 'clean' the slow prone stage at 200 yards, it's because I flubbed a shot.

K8TNNLy.jpg


Perhaps with a scope it would be sub-MOA. Not too bad for a semi and consistently shoots like this with 155 grain TMK's and Varget. They do make decent scope mounts to fit the M1A. Anyway, if you are interested in the M1A you can certainly have 'a fairly accurate rifle'.
 
Roy Rogers said:
Another option would be the Tavor 7 from Israel Weapon Industries, description and specs here, Tavor 7 – 7.62 NATO 16.5″ Barrel | IWI US, Inc.. Currently it's offered with a 14.5" barrel. Reportedly it's available now in Canada with a 20" barrel, and there are indications elsewhere on the web that 20" and/or 18.5" options will be introduced for the U.S. market in the near future.
Click to expand...

I've shot a Tavor in .223 and it was... ok. Definitely not worth the $1750-2000 IWI charges. In a .308? I wouldn't want one.
 
Lordy.

Does nobody read anything but the thread title?
Roy Rogers said:
Another option would be the Tavor 7 from Israel Weapon Industries, description and specs here, Tavor 7 – 7.62 NATO 16.5″ Barrel | IWI US, Inc.. Currently it's offered with a 14.5" barrel. Reportedly it's available now in Canada with a 20" barrel, and there are indications elsewhere on the web that 20" and/or 18.5" options will be introduced for the U.S. market in the near future.

View attachment 352069
Click to expand...
 
If you think you might want all 3 at some point I think I’d go for the HK91 first, at least if you were considering the real deal. The prices haven’t gone into silly territory yet like HK’s other rifles. Maybe they never will due to production numbers, but who knows. Not an issue if you’re aiming for a PTR or something. The only other potentially time sensitive consideration of the three might be getting an M14 with GI parts. Again though, if you’re happy with new production Springfield it’s not an issue.
 
Oh, should have mentioned the SR target for the 200 yard match shooting has a 7" 10-ring.
 
Roy Rogers said:
Another option would be the Tavor 7 from Israel Weapon Industries, description and specs here, Tavor 7 – 7.62 NATO 16.5″ Barrel | IWI US, Inc.. Currently it's offered with a 14.5" barrel. Reportedly it's available now in Canada with a 20" barrel, and there are indications elsewhere on the web that 20" and/or 18.5" options will be introduced for the U.S. market in the near future.

View attachment 352069
Click to expand...
The only bullpup I like really is the FN FS2000 and that's not a .308/7.62 rifle not anywhere near my budget from what I've seen.
 

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