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5.56 10.5 inch barrel reloading idea - part 2

H

HowardZ

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Today I got to fire my HERCO 5.56 load in 10.5 inch barrel.

A friend invited me to an indoor range he frequents.

I fired it using H3 buffer.
No high pressure signs (it is a lower pressure load)
However brass was not extracted/ejected.

Repeated this using STD buffer.
Brass was not extracted/ejected.

I own a very old light-weight bolt carrier purchased in the 1980s (for no good reason.)

Next time will try firing with STD buffer and light-weight bolt carrier.

I suspect it will not extract & eject, and my 6 pounds of HERCO powder will never be used.
 
I use a Spikes Tactical T2 buffer in my 10.5" dirt cheap Bear Creek Arsenal upper assembly. Came with their standard bolt carrier group. Works great. That buffer weighs around 4 oz if I recall.
 
Wait you’re using Herco powder??? That’s a pistol shotgun powder. I don’t even see 5.56 load data for that. You sure you got the right powder??

@mac1911 anyone use that for 5.56??
 
Other than some higher velocity ammo, changing the buffer, you can also open up the barrels gas port.
 
The point was to find a load which will not have the high noise and air vibrations one usually gets with a 10.5 inch barrel 5.56 upper.
According to Quickload the HERCO load has low muzzle pressure - similar to an old fashioned 20 inch barrel.
But in the case of a 10.5 inch barrel, there is less barrel after the gas tube compared to a 20" barrel (thus less dwell time).
Also, I bet the gas hole in the barrel is drilled to a different diameter.

As I said, next time I will test with standard buffer and a low weight bolt carrier I purchased in the 1980s.
I don't know why I purchased that bolt carrier, as I never used it - I must have thought it was somehow cool. (or kewl).

Herco powder might also be a possible choice for subsonic 300 blackout,
but I am not currently interested in subsonic 300 blackout.

I had searched the internet and found nobody trying to use HERCO powder in 5.56 or in 300 blackout.
HERCO's primary purpose is for reloading shotgun shells, and some have used in handgun reloading.
So, I may be the first to try this and write about it.
The experiment might end up failing, but I will give it another try with the low weight BC.

Spring is from primaryarms, made by Anderson Manufacturing - just a plain ordinary AR carbine spring.

Anderson Manufacturing AR-15 Buffer Spring - Carbine​

 
Tallahassee said:
Someone got a little snippy in that thread. Or maybe someone was just typing to read their own useless words.
Click to expand...
I disliked everyone pissing on my idea.
I expect some encouragement and peoples' predicted outcomes.

It's like - why would anybody bring anything of possible use to this forum - if their ideas are treated that way.
But you all can go ahead acting the way you do - I don't really care anymore.
This is just to document the experiment - for people searching the internet.

Few people have the intellect to come with novel ideas (just look at most Hollywood's movies).
Low intellect people can rain on every parade - that's easy.


I think the idea has merit.
So far it appears safe, but not functional in a semi-automatic role.

I might also be able to test the HERCO load in an 11.5 inch barrel - might get better results?
Will see.
 
HowardZ said:
I disliked everyone pissing on my idea.
I expect some encouragement and peoples' predicted outcomes.

It's like - why would anybody bring anything of possible use to this forum - if their ideas are treated that way.
But you all can go ahead acting the way you do - I don't really care anymore.
This is just to document the experiment - for people searching the internet.

Few people have the intellect to come with novel ideas (just look at most Hollywood's movies).
Low intellect people can rain on every parade - that's easy.


I think the idea has merit.
So far it appears safe, but not functional in a semi-automatic role.

I might also be able to test the HERCO load in an 11.5 inch barrel - might get better results?
Will see.
Click to expand...
So, this is what, your second day on a forum now?

Are you calling us low intellect people?
 
HowardZ said:
I disliked everyone pissing on my idea.
I expect some encouragement and peoples' predicted outcomes.

It's like - why would anybody bring anything of possible use to this forum - if their ideas are treated that way.
But you all can go ahead acting the way you do - I don't really care anymore.
This is just to document the experiment - for people searching the internet.

Few people have the intellect to come with novel ideas (just look at most Hollywood's movies).
Low intellect people can rain on every parade - that's easy.


I think the idea has merit.
So far it appears safe, but not functional in a semi-automatic role.

I might also be able to test the HERCO load in an 11.5 inch barrel - might get better results?
Will see.
Click to expand...
i get what you are trying to do
I dabble in reduced loads with in safety margins of course.
Your likely just not getting the gas volume you need for function.
Your going to need a slower powder to get some more gas volume into the gas system. This will likely increase your flash.
Your trying to use Herco, I get it.
You might want to get something in 12 or 20g to load for with herco. Sometimes its just best to sell that powder vs trying to make it work. You should have little problem off loading herco at a trap range.


For reduced flash/noise try hodgdons data on reduced loads with H4895.
I got my Stag carbine with what ever buffer and spring comes stock to cycle cast loads with H4895 at charges lower than most would not believe to function.


I know somewhere out there there is data for 223 using pistol powders, although for bolt guns
Poke around varmint forums. Search 223 varmint loads with pistol powders?
 
Last edited:
Buy a direct blowback pistol caliber carbine......you might live longer uninjured.
 
HowardZ said:
I disliked everyone pissing on my idea.
I expect some encouragement and peoples' predicted outcomes.
Click to expand...
People were not "pissing" on your "idea". They were telling you that what you are trying to do will not work.

You tried it, and it didn't work. If you try it again, it won't work again. It doesn't matter what bolt or buffer you use.

A direct gas impingement system needs an adequate volume of gas in order to operate. The small charge weights and fast powders you want to use don't provide enough gas to run the rifle.

Does your barrel have a pistol or carbine length buffer tube? The only possible way I can see this working is if you use a barrel with a pistol length tube and open the gas port up to sewer pipe dimensions. Even that will probably not cycle. If it does cycle, the gun will hammer itself to pieces if you use normal ammo in it. You'd be stuck with an under powered rifle that will only run on reduced loads.
 
You said no extraction. Did it even unlock the bolt and move it?
Doesn't matter what bolt weight,spring, or buffer weight unless it unlocks the bolt.
As EddieCoyle stated. There's not enough gas to work the system.
Use a different powder with reduced load data and you will have better luck.
Work from there to tweak for what you want.
 
HowardZ said:
Today I got to fire my HERCO 5.56 load in 10.5 inch barrel.

A friend invited me to an indoor range he frequents.

I fired it using H3 buffer.
No high pressure signs (it is a lower pressure load)
However brass was not extracted/ejected.

Repeated this using STD buffer.
Brass was not extracted/ejected.

I own a very old light-weight bolt carrier purchased in the 1980s (for no good reason.)

Next time will try firing with STD buffer and light-weight bolt carrier.

I suspect it will not extract & eject, and my 6 pounds of HERCO powder will never be used.
Click to expand...
There are plenty of other uses for ?Herco

10 gauge
12 gauge
16 gauge
20 gauge
28 gauge
357 Sig.
38 Super Auto +P
45 Colt
45 Auto

your just not going to get the volume of gas with herco. Light weight parts, big holes , little holes wont matter much. Herco is all burnt up in about one inch of the barrel. You need something that is still “burning” and expanding down the bore
1629166357408.png
 
Last edited:
HowardZ said:
Today I got to fire my HERCO 5.56 load in 10.5 inch barrel.

A friend invited me to an indoor range he frequents.

I fired it using H3 buffer.
No high pressure signs (it is a lower pressure load)
However brass was not extracted/ejected.

Repeated this using STD buffer.
Brass was not extracted/ejected.

I own a very old light-weight bolt carrier purchased in the 1980s (for no good reason.)

Next time will try firing with STD buffer and light-weight bolt carrier.

I suspect it will not extract & eject, and my 6 pounds of HERCO powder will never be used.
Click to expand...
Have tou ventured any deeper into this.
 
@HowardZ does your gun function properly with standard 5.56 ammo?
If it does then your load is deficient. Do you have any idea how much pressure you are generating?
Contact the powder manufacturer for their recommendations and for safety sake.
There could be other loads/powders with established data that could do what you are looking for
 
akma said:
@HowardZ does your gun function properly with standard 5.56 ammo?
If it does then your load is deficient. Do you have any idea how much pressure you are generating?
Contact the powder manufacturer for their recommendations and for safety sake.
There could be other loads/powders with established data that could do what you are looking for
Click to expand...
From what I understand Howard is trying to use Herco specifically for this task.
 
akma said:
@mac1911 Yes I gathered that too but for safety....you really need to know what the powder will do. Never mind in a lab testing is done on a gun specifically made for this. Nothing like putting an unknown on the side of your face in an expensive rifle and letting her rip!
Click to expand...
I believe he was Using Quick loads ?
anyway have not heard from him. I think hes still upset he has no use for 6lbs of Herco powder?
 

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