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Air Marshals -- Something to think about besides the TSA...
- Thread starter JimConway
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Define "American".
Not to get off topic, but back in 1970 I did a month of Prisoner Chaser duty in the Army, out of Fort Carson.
We would fly all over (usually two of us) wearing Class A's, pistol belts and 45's.
They would ask for our orders, and if the orders specified "With arms" they let us carry in the cabin.
The hippies on the plane would freak out!![[laugh2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/014.gif "Laugh at above [laugh2]")
We would fly all over (usually two of us) wearing Class A's, pistol belts and 45's.
They would ask for our orders, and if the orders specified "With arms" they let us carry in the cabin.
The hippies on the plane would freak out!
Not to get off topic, but back in 1970 I did a month of Prisoner Chaser duty in the Army, out of Fort Carson.
We would fly all over (usually two of us) wearing Class A's, pistol belts and 45's.
They would ask for our orders, and if the orders specified "With arms" they let us carry in the cabin.
The hippies on the plane would freak out!
Funny you should bring that up. I was an Officer, Rated and often traveled in Class A's with a sidearm. Very few people noticed. It was concealed. One day a little kid saw my sidearm and, as little kids do, asked "why are you carrying a gun?" I leaned over and said "it is my guarantee that you will remain free." Given today's climate I think I have not lived up to what I said.
SemiAutoSam
Banned
IMO American =
One born on the continent of America be it North, Central or South America.
One born on the continent of America be it North, Central or South America.
While I don't want to speak for terraformer, I believe the implication was that if "In God" thought rounding up and shipping off all residents of Muslim decent was a good idea, perhaps he had mis-typed "Nazi Germany".
SemiAutoSam
Banned
I happen to agree with "In God". IMO muslums have no business here in the USA. I would have no problem shipping them out.
J
Jose
You don't know what you are talking about.
I discussed this matter many a times with friends and colleagues who are professional aerospace engineers in charge of designing pressurized aircraft at my former employer (Beech Aircraft Company). To a man they laugh at people like you who think they know what they are talking about.
Stick to blowing up childrens' toys that [STRIKE]people[/STRIKE] sheeple report as "suspicious". Leave aircraft performance and survivability to those who know about such things.
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That's ridiculous. What makes you or I more American than a law abiding Muslim American?
This thread is going to all the wrong places.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
This thread is going to all the wrong places.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
I have a problem giving you or the government the power to make that decision...
I have an equal problem allowing the tyranny of Sharia, but if someone wants to be a Muslim, they are just as welcome to do that as any other religion as far as I am concerned provided it is kept in its proper place (which is to say out of government and with respect to the rights of those around you).
an acquaintance of mine is an air marshal for international flights and I've talked with him a few times about his work. ultimately, him and his partner are not there to police the passengers. their job is to defend and save the plane from being hijacked/overtaken. the pilots and crew know who and where they are, but the passengers don't, and aren't supposed to. if you think about it, if their presence is obvious, they become the first target. he told me that on a few occasions there has been some obnoxious drunk on the plane. stewardesses have come over and asked/told him to do something about it. he's literally told stewardesses to f*** off and stop serving drunks more drinks. if its not a threat to the plane, its not his concern. again, they serve a well defined purpose, which does NOT include policing the passengers. I think the fact that there have been so few instances where they are required to step in and get involved really goes to show how effective the program is. I, for one, feel much safer knowing there is some "silent guardian" watching and waiting somewhere on the plan, compared to the usual uniformed cop acting tough and giving people a hard time. the whole flight process is already shitty enough...
also - please keep your bigotry to yourself. it really turns people off to the forum.
also - please keep your bigotry to yourself. it really turns people off to the forum.
SemiAutoSam
Banned
I dont have a hyphen in my nationality for one thing, I'm an american not a _____ american.
Maybe its a good idea for the hyphenated Americans to get with the program
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/race/2008/11/time-for-hyphen.html
I was born of parents and grand parents that were born here and have been here for the past 200 years for another thing.
I wont stand for this shria law crap either.
Maybe its a good idea for the hyphenated Americans to get with the program
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/race/2008/11/time-for-hyphen.html
I was born of parents and grand parents that were born here and have been here for the past 200 years for another thing.
I wont stand for this shria law crap either.
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Actually, you're an American. (Yes, the capital "A" is significant.)
And nobody gives a shit where your parents were born. Citizenship by birthright is hardly anything to crow about.
So is a law abiding American who happens to be of Islam faith.
A Muslim doesn't automatically mean he or she believes in Sharia or wants to impose it on all.
American ideals include personal freedom, one of which unites us all in this forum and another allows following your religious beliefs... I'm sure someone as American as you knows that...
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
A Muslim doesn't automatically mean he or she believes in Sharia or wants to impose it on all.
American ideals include personal freedom, one of which unites us all in this forum and another allows following your religious beliefs... I'm sure someone as American as you knows that...
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
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I think it is way to bold of a statement to say "ship all the Muslims out of America" just because the new generation of radical terrorists happen to share that faith. My only real issue with them is when you hear of long standing traditions in this country being stopped because it "may" be offensive to the Muslims. WTF is that all about? Does that mean if we move over to their land, they can't practice their religious holidays in the school system? Sorry for the derail, I am still bothered by that Santa thread from a few days ago, and Muslim bashing here in this thread got me going again!
With regard to the Air Marshals, I can certainly see their benefit, but it would seem to be way more cost effective to all of us if the airlines were required to just pay to have 1, or 2 armed personnel on the aircraft. I just don't get why the taxpayers are responsible for paying the security tab? In every other commercial business, security staff is paid for by the individual companies.
With regard to the Air Marshals, I can certainly see their benefit, but it would seem to be way more cost effective to all of us if the airlines were required to just pay to have 1, or 2 armed personnel on the aircraft. I just don't get why the taxpayers are responsible for paying the security tab? In every other commercial business, security staff is paid for by the individual companies.
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SemiAutoSam
Banned
LOL you crack me up, how long will a so called Muslum-American be law abiding if they are loyal to their islamic faith ? answer not very long at all, their Koran tells them to kill all unbelievers. and not only that but its deceptive as well to meet its ends.
If they dont follow their islamic faith they wouldnt be a good Muslum now would they.
I am of the opinion that a Muslim cannot be an American end of story.
If they dont follow their islamic faith they wouldnt be a good Muslum now would they.
I am of the opinion that a Muslim cannot be an American end of story.
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J
Jose
Sam, don't waste your breath on this lot.
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Sam, thanks for posting that video. Don't know how accurate it is, but it is very thought provoking, nonetheless! It has been on my "things to do" list to read the Quaran for myself, just to gain some insight into the thought process driving the terrorist activity. At this point there is so much speculation out there, that it's really hard to differentiate fact from fiction. Has anyone here actually read, or studied the text?
I don't actually care that it may be difficult for a "true Muslim" to be a good American... That's not my problem, that is their problem. They will have to choose how to integrate their beliefs into American society...
I fully recognize that they have an extra burden coming from a religion so deeply rooted in "governmental" tradition, but its not my place to say that they cannot try to live in our free society while oppressing themselves as they see fit with their religion.
The problem comes when they start telling others how they must live to conform to Islamist beliefs. Absolutely not...
It is absolutely the case, IMHO, that Islam has a miserable track record of "tolerance." Any "success" they can cite is far from it in my book and always the case that a benevolent dictator Islamist state tolerates (i.e. does not massacre) other religions so long as they are subservient politically. As long as they walk a narrow line that does not offend muslims they are supposedly "free" to practice their religion.
Again though, in this nation, you can oppress yourself as you see fit. Just so long as you keep this practice to yourself. Don't expect me to live within your rules or any boundaries that you accept to avoid offending you (and that applies to ALL religions).
I used to be active on this forum. I'm not so much anymore - life got in the way of my internet habits. 
Still, I saw the thread and had to respond.
First, I'm a FAM. Been one since the program started up. Was in fed LE work before that for some time prior, as well as local LE work. Still only a rookie with twenty years of LE work total, though, so caveat established.
Second, I dont give a crap where you're from or which God(s) you pray to, so long as you try to enforce your way of thinking on me or mine, particularly at the point of a knife or gun. Try and kill me or mine and I will kill you back.
Third, FAMs aren't there to make arrests. Oh, we will if it becomes serious enough, but getting involved in every single silly incident on a plane is counterproductive and makes FAMs even easier to spot and neutralize than the jackheaded policies in place already do. FAMs are first and foremost there to either prevent the hijacking of a plane or re-hijack it if it does fall into enemy hands.
Fourth, FAMs aren't there to disarm people. That's the TSA screener's job. But think on this - the passengers had the same access to the same weapons as the terrorists did on 9/11. It did not work out well. And if you think there has been a mindset change in the citizenry since 9/11, I posit you haven't been paying attention. I have a very long and detailed position post I've made on this years ago if anyone's interested. If not, I can't disagree with you on that - it's not a popular opinion on arms control,, I understand. I'm 99% of the time not in favor of limiting arms, but in a very few areas I am. Civilian aviation is one of them.
Fifth, as far as arrests go - how many arrests do you think the President's security detail makes a year? The ones that actually protect him 24/7? I'd bet none. They're not there for that - they're there to keep the President from being killed. FAMs don't do much in the arena of investigations. That's the FBIs job. Would we entertain the notion of canceling the President's protection detail?
Sixth, explosive decompression of an airplane to an errant round is not an issue whatsoever. That myth came from James Bond - Goldfinger I think. The plane is not airtight. Explosive decompression of an innocent person's skull is, which is why we train so much in firearms, CQB and tactics. But the plane is not an issue, unless you hit the hydrolics.
Finally, feel free to ignore what I wrote above. Its mostly my BS opinions, and I'm wrong about 80% of the time anyway.
Still, I saw the thread and had to respond.First, I'm a FAM. Been one since the program started up. Was in fed LE work before that for some time prior, as well as local LE work. Still only a rookie with twenty years of LE work total, though, so caveat established.
Second, I dont give a crap where you're from or which God(s) you pray to, so long as you try to enforce your way of thinking on me or mine, particularly at the point of a knife or gun. Try and kill me or mine and I will kill you back.
Third, FAMs aren't there to make arrests. Oh, we will if it becomes serious enough, but getting involved in every single silly incident on a plane is counterproductive and makes FAMs even easier to spot and neutralize than the jackheaded policies in place already do. FAMs are first and foremost there to either prevent the hijacking of a plane or re-hijack it if it does fall into enemy hands.
Fourth, FAMs aren't there to disarm people. That's the TSA screener's job. But think on this - the passengers had the same access to the same weapons as the terrorists did on 9/11. It did not work out well. And if you think there has been a mindset change in the citizenry since 9/11, I posit you haven't been paying attention. I have a very long and detailed position post I've made on this years ago if anyone's interested. If not, I can't disagree with you on that - it's not a popular opinion on arms control,, I understand. I'm 99% of the time not in favor of limiting arms, but in a very few areas I am. Civilian aviation is one of them.
Fifth, as far as arrests go - how many arrests do you think the President's security detail makes a year? The ones that actually protect him 24/7? I'd bet none. They're not there for that - they're there to keep the President from being killed. FAMs don't do much in the arena of investigations. That's the FBIs job. Would we entertain the notion of canceling the President's protection detail?
Sixth, explosive decompression of an airplane to an errant round is not an issue whatsoever. That myth came from James Bond - Goldfinger I think. The plane is not airtight. Explosive decompression of an innocent person's skull is, which is why we train so much in firearms, CQB and tactics. But the plane is not an issue, unless you hit the hydrolics.
Finally, feel free to ignore what I wrote above. Its mostly my BS opinions, and I'm wrong about 80% of the time anyway.
J
Jose
I bet you like to see disarmed sheeple in trains and busses too. Right? After all, only fed.gov LE is professional enough to fight it out in a crowded vehicle.
Cue Lee Paige.......
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
J
Jose
Absolutely. Praetorian guards have no place in a free republic.
I used to be active on this forum. I'm not so much anymore - life got in the way of my internet habits.
I believe there was a well-known law dawg on another forum, TFL? Same one?
I "may" have seen it but seem to have forgotten. I would like to read it again.
I've been known to be wrong. Would still like to read the post you referenced.
J
Jose
How about VA/Social Security/USPS/National Park Service offices? Those are also critical to national security?
