Anti-Gun Citi and First Data

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IrishIron

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I wanted to alert you guys that we will be sending this out in our NSSF Bullet Points this evening. It seems that Citi and First Data have made a decision to not support the second amendment and the rights of law abiding citizens, law enforcment and the military.

CREDIT CARD PROCESSING COMPANY REJECTS FIREARMS INDUSTRY

REFUSES TO PROCESS TRANSACTIONS . . . Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corp. are refusing to process any transactions between federally licensed firearms retailers, distributors and manufacturers -- a move which will severely limit available inventory of firearms and ammunition to military, law enforcement and law-abiding Americans.

The first company to be affected by this decision appears to be firearms distributor CDNN Sports Inc.

"We were contacted recently by First Data/Citi Merchant Services by a June Rivera-Mantilla stating that we were terminated and funds were being seized for selling firearms in a non-face-to-face transaction," said Charlie Crawford, president of CDNN Sports Inc. "Although perfectly legal, we were also informed that no transactions would be processed in the future, even for non-firearms. I find this very frightening."

To voice your concern to Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corp., please contact June Rivera-Mantilla at 631-683-7734 or her supervisor Robert Tenenbaum at 631-683-6570.

To change to an NSSF-affiliated credit card processing program, contact Payment Alliance International at 1-866-371-2273 (ext. 1131).

This link will bring you to a copy of the letter sent to CDNN.

http://www.nssf.org/share/images/letter.jpg

You can also go to www.nssf.org later this evening to view this edition of Bullet Points
 
This stinks of an insider pushing an anti-gun agenda without an informed corporate sanction.

I don't expect CDNN is breaking any laws - only that CITI/First Data are not aware of what the laws are in the first place.
 
In all seriousness besides paying off 2 of my credit cards and cutting them then closing the accounts, does this actually affect us in MA who can't really do anything not FTF, I don't think I understand the affect of this.
 
It's pretty obvious from the letter that the Citi people don't understand the laws involved. I wonder if NSSF or CDNN will retain counsel or just move on to another, smarter, credit card processor?

Gary
 
Easy enough to flip "CREDIT CARD PROCESSING COMPANY REJECTS FIREARMS INDUSTRY" to "FIREARMS INDUSTRY REJECTS CREDIT CARD PROCESSING COMPANY".
 
To answer questions.

Well to those who wonder how this could affect them here in MA. What Citi is doing is denying/terminating CDNN the ability to process all credit card transactions. So let's look at this way, an FFL in MA uses CDNN as its distributor and CDNN has bought a certain firearm that is MA compliant and the FFL wants to bring them here. First Data is not allowing a trasaction to take place between the two. They are not processing any transactions for CDNN. While there are other processing companies First Data does control a majority of the market. So needless to say you have one company trying to change a whole industry because one person decided it does not fit with their culture.

Actully alot of LE organizations turn their duty weapons back into CDNN and then sometimes the officers would like to purchase their old weapon well according to First Data even the LEO who wants the gun will not be allowed the transaction.

Without devulging too much we hope that the grassroots and backlash against First Data will force them to realize the errors of their ways. CDNN is working on what they can do in this situation with counsel. Charlie is also looking at other credit card processing companies. I will keep all updated on the progress.

This does effect people natiowide and we need to cognizant of anti-gun companies pulling this.
 
jlotta said:
In all seriousness besides paying off 2 of my credit cards and cutting them then closing the accounts, does this actually affect us in MA who can't really do anything not FTF, I don't think I understand the affect of this.
Click to expand...

The whole "FTF" thing is a bit of a red herring. If you've gotten
the impression that one can sell guns direct through the mail, that's a
non starter. (EDIT: there are VERY limited exceptions to this, for example, CMP)
CDNN sends guns to a local FFL, who you can then transfer the gun from.
MA residents -can- order guns this way, as long as the gun will pass through your
local FFL. There's nothing "illegal" about an FFL transfer.

I think citi is whining because they think they're "sellling guns
direct over the internet" or some crap. It's BS... it's some a**h***
anti gun lamer, or some corporate lawyer that doesn't know his
ass from a hole in the ground.

-Mike
 
Last edited:
DrGrant you 100%

Hopefully this all comes to light to the corporate offices. That is the goal to bombard them with enough feedback for them to re-examine there stance.

Your point is spot-on in your orginal post

"I think citi is whining because they think they're "sellling guns
direct over the internet" or some crap. It's BS... it's some a**h***
anti gun lamer, or some corporate lawyer that doesn't know his
ass from a hole in the ground."

As we all know they are not selling direct over the internet. It is only through federally licensed dealers. As you all know you cannot buy a gun over the internet without using an FFL.
 
IrishIron said:
I wanted to alert you guys that we will be sending this out ...... SNIP

Charlie Crawford, president of CDNN Sports Inc. "Although perfectly legal, we were also informed that no transactions would be processed in the future, even for non-firearms. I find this very frightening."
Click to expand...

CDNN will not ship us hi-capacity magazines here in MA, even though we are licensed to possess them. Thats perfectly legal also. (Also frightening)
GC

From my archive:
Feb 12, 2000 - called CDNN Investments in Abilene, Texas. Brian....
Ordered two hi-cap mags; S&W series 59, 15 rd (1) , and series 69, 12rd.
Gave my visa card. when i gave address of mass, he said they couldn't
ship to mass, cal, nyc, wash dc. i did not offer that i had a ltc-a.
i told him to cancel the order.
 
I understand your frustration.

While I know that is a problem nearly all retailers don't even want to bother with MA. I mean we can't get places like cabela's to send stuff even though it is legal. They don't want to deal with the hassle.

Even though that was the case we can't ignore when situations like this happen. We need to be united on fronts like this. I mean we have a major credit card company that clear nearly all transactions trying to instill an anti-second amendment stance. Heck if we all worked together GOA, NSSF, NRA, and law abiding citizens we may not have the problems we currently face. Instead we get fragmented. We can't just ignore problems like this.
 
This smells like the same horse shit Ebay is shoveling on us. IMO they are afraid of getting sued over anything that has the words gun or firearm attached. [angry]
 
So if I'm understanding this we're in a fight with the 2 of largest companies around.I Know citi is and from what I can tell CDNN is the biggest supplier of our STUFF.If we start to push back are there any suppliers close to or the same size as them that can take over?All I know is after doing some research (opening my wallet) I realized that I have more than 2 citi cards so now I have a dilemma,2 pers. 4 buis. No credit--No work(construction)
 
I contacted the company (Citi) and left a message. I actually did receive a call back but was unalbe to speak at that time. I was put on a list for an email response.
The email that I received a few minutes ago along with my response is posted below. I am going to contact them for an interview for a gun magazine article tomorrow.

---

Thank you for your message. The posting at www.nssf.org <http://www.nssf.org> regarding Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corp. is inaccurate. Further, while we generally do not comment on individual merchant customers, we would like to briefly address the 12/26 letter posted on the web site. Regretfully, that letter did a less than satisfactory job of expressing applicable policies. Those policies are more properly detailed below.

Citi Merchant Services and First Data do process firearms transactions. Our policy restrictions address only the sale of firearms in a non face-to-face environment. Non face-to-face transactions occur when a cardholder is not present in front of a merchant and includes mail order and online purchases. It is our policy not to service merchants that make non face-to-face sales in a number of industries, including firearms.

It is not the policy of Citi Merchant Services or First Data to refuse to process transactions from duly licensed merchants that sell firearms in face-to-face transactions at the point of sale.

The posting also incorrectly states that Robert Tenenbaum is the supervisor when, in fact, he is not.

--


Your policy, as explained, is offensive and unacceptable. As a law-abiding citizen and someone who often purchases firearms across the country in non face to face transactions, I take extreme exception to your policy.

The law allows for non face to face transactions because all firearm laws and required background checks are done at the local level. Once the firearm is purchased from the non local dealer, the firearms MUST be sent to local dealer for final processing. There is NO skirting of the law or regulations in any way. The final transfer of the firearm is done in the same manner regardless of who or where the seller is located.

If your policy is not changed immediately, I will cancel all my business with Citi and notify everyone that I know in the firearms community of your discriminating policy
 
Davidk said:
I contacted the company (Citi) and left a message. I actually did receive a call back but was unalbe to speak at that time. I was put on a list for an email response.
The email that I received a few minutes ago along with my response is posted below. I am going to contact them for an interview for a gun magazine article tomorrow.

---

Thank you for your message. The posting at www.nssf.org <http://www.nssf.org> regarding Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corp. is inaccurate. Further, while we generally do not comment on individual merchant customers, we would like to briefly address the 12/26 letter posted on the web site. Regretfully, that letter did a less than satisfactory job of expressing applicable policies. Those policies are more properly detailed below.

Citi Merchant Services and First Data do process firearms transactions. Our policy restrictions address only the sale of firearms in a non face-to-face environment. Non face-to-face transactions occur when a cardholder is not present in front of a merchant and includes mail order and online purchases. It is our policy not to service merchants that make non face-to-face sales in a number of industries, including firearms.

It is not the policy of Citi Merchant Services or First Data to refuse to process transactions from duly licensed merchants that sell firearms in face-to-face transactions at the point of sale.

The posting also incorrectly states that Robert Tenenbaum is the supervisor when, in fact, he is not.

--


Your policy, as explained, is offensive and unacceptable. As a law-abiding citizen and someone who often purchases firearms across the country in non face to face transactions, I take extreme exception to your policy.

The law allows for non face to face transactions because all firearm laws and required background checks are done at the local level. Once the firearm is purchased from the non local dealer, the firearms MUST be sent to local dealer for final processing. There is NO skirting of the law or regulations in any way. The final transfer of the firearm is done in the same manner regardless of who or where the seller is located.

If your policy is not changed immediately, I will cancel all my business with Citi and notify everyone that I know in the firearms community of your discriminating policy
Click to expand...

damn straight. Can you give me the contact info so that I also can express my anger (in a civil yet forceful manner) at their policy.
 
It is in the first post:

To voice your concern to Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corp., please contact June Rivera-Mantilla at 631-683-7734 or her supervisor Robert Tenenbaum at 631-683-6570.
 
Marcus in the Darkus said:
The letter was signed by someone with a hyphenated last name. How surprising.

What can I do, as a mere consumer, to keep my transaction business away from these turds?
Click to expand...

Ask any business from which you want to make a purchase who they use to process their credit sales; wait for a written reply from the top, since the person with whom you're speaking won't have a clue as to the answer or probably even understand the question; boycott any business that uses these companies (or from whom you don't receive an answer).

While I'd never fall for something as simplistic as "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", you'll have to excuse me if my heart doesn't exactly go out to CDNN here. Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corporation are, in their ignorance and paranoia regarding federal law, refusing to process perfectly legal financial transactions by CDNN related to firearms. At the same time, CDNN in its ignorance and paranoia regarding Massachusetts law, refuses to make perfectly legal sales to C&R licensees and others here in Massachusetts.

Ken
 
Update: NSSF response to their continued stance

Below is the response we sent to First Data today. Obviously they remain steadfast in their anti-gun uneducated stance.


January 10, 2008



Dear Ms. XXXXXX:



This is to confirm the National Shooting Sports Foundation’s receipt of your e-mail response on behalf of First Data Corporation and Citi Merchant Services on Wednesday, January 9, 2008, concerning First Data and Citi Merchant’s unilateral decision to stop processing credit card transactions involving the lawful sale of firearms by law-abiding, federally-licensed, firearms distributors/retailers. Regrettably, your e-mail serves to confirm the anti-gun corporate policy of First Data and Citi Merchant Services and that the article in our publication “Bullet Points,” and subsequent posting to our Website, was based on a correct and accurate understanding of that policy as articulated in the December 26, 2007, letter to Mr. Charlie Crawford at CDNN Sports Inc.



We had hoped to hear from First Data Corporation and Citi Merchant Services that this was not your corporate policy and that the letter was merely the ill-considered actions of a single employee.



Your anti-gun corporate policy is based on ignorance of the law applicable to the sale of firearms. It is perfectly legal, in fact commonplace, for a federal firearms licensee in one state to sell a firearm to a non-licensee (consumer) from another state. What you fail to appreciate is that the firearm is not shipped in interstate commerce directly to the consumer. Rather, as required by federal law, the firearm is shipped by the selling licensee to another federal firearms licensee in the state of residence of the consumer who is purchasing the firearm. The consumer acquires the firearm from that licensed dealer in a face-to-face transaction after completion of a Firearms Transaction Record, commonly referred to as an ATF Form 4473, and a federally-mandated background check to ensure that the purchaser is legally permitted to buy the firearm.



Furthermore, the policy of First Data and Citi Merchant Services interferes with the receiving and shipping of inventory from and to federally licensed firearms retailers, distributors and manufacturers. This inventory supplies not only law-abiding Americans, but military and law enforcement agencies as well.

June Rivera-Mantilla’s original correspondence contained so many errors that one could only deduce that it was an uniformed mistake that would consequently be corrected. Instead, we learned yesterday that First Data Corporation and Citi Merchant Services stands behind the policy, which affects not only firearms retailers, manufacturers and distributors, but also law enforcement agencies at the federal, state and local levels of government and law-abiding citizens.



NSSF will not remove its Web posting nor will we rescind or alter our story. However, if we receive written confirmation from you that, after having researched the law, First Data and Citi Merchant Services have changed their corporate policy, we will consider publishing that fact in a follow-up story.



Sincerely,

NSSF
 
zing!

IrishIron said:
Below is the response we sent to First Data today. Obviously they remain steadfast in their anti-gun uneducated stance.


January 10, 2008



Dear Ms. XXXXXX:



This is to confirm the National Shooting Sports Foundation’s receipt of your e-mail response on behalf of First Data Corporation and Citi Merchant Services on Wednesday, January 9, 2008, concerning First Data and Citi Merchant’s unilateral decision to stop processing credit card transactions involving the lawful sale of firearms by law-abiding, federally-licensed, firearms distributors/retailers. Regrettably, your e-mail serves to confirm the anti-gun corporate policy of First Data and Citi Merchant Services and that the article in our publication “Bullet Points,” and subsequent posting to our Website, was based on a correct and accurate understanding of that policy as articulated in the December 26, 2007, letter to Mr. Charlie Crawford at CDNN Sports Inc.



We had hoped to hear from First Data Corporation and Citi Merchant Services that this was not your corporate policy and that the letter was merely the ill-considered actions of a single employee.



Your anti-gun corporate policy is based on ignorance of the law applicable to the sale of firearms. It is perfectly legal, in fact commonplace, for a federal firearms licensee in one state to sell a firearm to a non-licensee (consumer) from another state. What you fail to appreciate is that the firearm is not shipped in interstate commerce directly to the consumer. Rather, as required by federal law, the firearm is shipped by the selling licensee to another federal firearms licensee in the state of residence of the consumer who is purchasing the firearm. The consumer acquires the firearm from that licensed dealer in a face-to-face transaction after completion of a Firearms Transaction Record, commonly referred to as an ATF Form 4473, and a federally-mandated background check to ensure that the purchaser is legally permitted to buy the firearm.



Furthermore, the policy of First Data and Citi Merchant Services interferes with the receiving and shipping of inventory from and to federally licensed firearms retailers, distributors and manufacturers. This inventory supplies not only law-abiding Americans, but military and law enforcement agencies as well.

June Rivera-Mantilla’s original correspondence contained so many errors that one could only deduce that it was an uniformed mistake that would consequently be corrected. Instead, we learned yesterday that First Data Corporation and Citi Merchant Services stands behind the policy, which affects not only firearms retailers, manufacturers and distributors, but also law enforcement agencies at the federal, state and local levels of government and law-abiding citizens.



NSSF will not remove its Web posting nor will we rescind or alter our story. However, if we receive written confirmation from you that, after having researched the law, First Data and Citi Merchant Services have changed their corporate policy, we will consider publishing that fact in a follow-up story.



Sincerely,

NSSF
Click to expand...
 
Update on Citi First Data

Well after doing some thorough research we have come to believe that the anti-gun stance has come down from the corporate offices of Citigroup in NYC.

So to those who asked this is in fact coming from the powers that be all the up in the corporate offices of Citigroup in NYC.

You guys can all decide what is most important to you and decide the appropriate action.
 
I've had a Citi Platinum Select VISA card for nearly 18 years and for the last several years have run most of my business and personal travel, something upwards of $50,000 a year, through it. I'd had a bit of a run-in with them lately over some inappropriate charges regarding an alleged no-show hotel reservation. It eventually got worked out in my favor, but I really wasn't happy with the way it was handled. This is the last straw - I'll be canceling my account, and letting them know why. Bastards.
 
Arioch said:
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/080115markets.aspx

Massive loss at Citigroup slams stocks
Stocks tank after the banking giant reports a quarterly loss of $9.8 billion and slashes its quarterly dividend -- but announces a big investment from outside groups. Merrill Lynch also receives a capital infusion. Retail sales fall in December
Click to expand...

But Citi's announcement had one bright spot: a $12.5 billion investment from outside investors. The capital infusion includes a $6.88 billion investment from the Government of Singapore Investment Corp., as well as investments by Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, former CEO Weill, the Weill Family Foundation and Capital Research Global Investors.
Click to expand...

Wonder if there's any correlation between the investment and the action. Play for pay?
 
MBNA offers tons of different credit cards and seem to be owned by Bank of America. Not sure, but I don't think that BOFA is owned by Citigroup.
 

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