mikelawtown
NES Member
And made a Great profit , don't you love free market?
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Anyone else drooling over the new CZ Shadow 2?
- Thread starter DW357
- Start date
That is a different gun. Single action only, so it can't be used for USPSA Production.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
After handling and dry firing an Orange last week, I can't disagree/agree as I haven't held the new shadow. But I think it's safe to say that both guns are solid shooters. I will say that the Orange has one hell of a trigger out of the box. Ehh if I'm not satisfied with the new shadow (assuming I'm lucky enough to get one), I'll just sell it and get all of my money back lol.
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This too. I'm not really interested in shooting limited division so that's why I would lean towards the shadow 2.
nstassel
NES Member
I do like a free market. But I don't look at it this way here. Mass is not a free market. I have two CZs among a safe full of non list guns. I don't let other owners exploit me and I wouldn't exploit my fellow subjects in Massachusetts any more than I'd sell generators or fresh water at a huge profit in a disaster zone. When I sell a gun I do so to cover my costs and enjoy helping others who share my desire to practice our sport and celebrate our 2a rights despite a repressive state government. That's more important to me than a couple bucks. [emoji106]
Limited is much better than production
Exploited? Nobody is being forced to pay a shit price for a gun. What if some guy busted his ass getting it, or even overpaid for it himself- is he supposed to take a loss ? Lol.
nstassel
NES Member
He said made "great profit". That's exploitation in my book. I agree that if someone over pays they should get their money back if they can but that's not what we're talking about.
There is no exploitation, no one is forced to buy anything
What's wrong with making great profit, on any item not just a gun?
If I sell something you can bet your ass I'm going to try to get the most profit possible. I'm not your friend, I'm not your bro, I'm not here to help you out.
If my price is outrageous or out of line with market value, it won't sell and I either sit and wait or adjust downward accordingly.
You want a good deal at a non-rapey price, you do the work to get that item - I'm not beholden to someone butthurt over myself making profit.
Sheesh.
This I am on board with....if you don't like the price move on. You don't have to inbox me and tell me you can buy it somewhere else for blah blah blah....then go buy it somewhere else. The price is the price...unless I feel like negotiating.
On said topic of the CZ....I don't own one. But it's on "my list" would love to add one to the safe someday soon.
nstassel
NES Member
Steyr I think you've hit the nail on the head. I do think of gun owners as my friends and my "bros". While I agree no one is being forced to buy a particular gun I don't choose to profit off my friends. I can see few in this thread see things the way I do. To each their own.
He's just speculating based on the context of the ad or whatever it was. Yeah, whoever it was PROBABLY profited, but that's not a guarantee. If you think the guys around here selling the illustrious, omnipresent "$900 Glock" are actually getting that every time they ask for that price, I have a nice bridge to sell you. I'd be surprised if things listed at shit prices even go for that 50% of the time, unless its something that is ACTUALLY rare.
Many years ago I paid shit prices for a lot of guns. I never once felt "exploited". Nobody coerced me or forced me to buy those guns. It didn't take rocket appliances to figure out that the original owner didn't pay that much for the gun that I bought, but I simply didn't care because they or the dealer I was at had what I wanted and it fulfilled a need... and in most cases, the price differential from market reality wasn't even a case of ammo. Recently I overpaid by probably $100 on a DW1911 I bought. I didn't care- because the remote that I bought the gun from had it in stock and was willing to overnight the thing so I would get it before a holiday weekend. I had waited literally like 2 years to afford that gun- I wasn't waiting 2 weeks longer and simply didn't care that it cost a little more.
I guess when I think of "exploited" I think of that retarded / mentally challenged guy that got abused on faceplant live for the amusement of a bunch of hoodrats. Or that little old lady down the street with dementia that got hoodwinked into getting her driveway "sealcoated" for $2000. Or little girls sold into being sex slavery from some 3rd world country. Likely at least high school educated, or GED possessing adults with an LTC that passed a BFS course without the instructor having to call the kopsch or an ambulance, that have the financial ability to afford a $1200+ handgun? Not so much.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
I have a difficult time feeling bad for any adult with a functioning midbrain that thinks that the four seasons "guns you can't buy in MA" page is like some sort of universal truth. It's difficult for me to feel bad for someone that can't do a little homework or put in a little bit of effort; or if they don't feel up to it themselves, to pay someone else for the convenience. This seems to be a recurring theme, and the fun part is that nobody can say that millenials are the only ones that lazy/cheap, lol) Not to mention compared to a lot of other industries or sales environments, firearms is very heavily an OPT-in kind of thing. I mean whens the last time you went into a gun store and the sales guy tried to pitch you on a gun like a used car salesman? I think the "worst" I've ever had happen to me is a clerk or owner drew my attention to new things that arrived in the store, which is pretty benign. Not very aggressive. It's hardly a coercive environment in that regard. Maybe I'm biased because I've been on bothsides of the counter.
nstassel said:
Also, food for thought.... If some rando guy that I never met before wants to buy one of my guns, how do I know he's not like friends with John Rosenthal or something, unless he flips out a Comm2A challenge coin or similar? In this state I think it's a little naive to assume that every gun owneris your "friend" because they have a plastic card and own guns. Having said that in the past when I sold stuff (thankfully don't do it much anymore) when I had a friend interested in a gun I always ended up taking a loss and not giving a shit. There's a big difference between selling something and doing a real friend a favor. (well at least in my book)
While I'm at it I want to apologize for the length of this post. The scary ****ing thing is I destroyed 3 paragraphs before I posted this, because they were kinda redundant.
-Mike
Hear Hear!
I'm not even a really good negotiator but I DO know that if you're trying to get someone to come down on their price, saying those words to someone is the equivalent of "So, when did you stop beating your wife?" Basically whenever people used to send me those I either ignored them or I said something like "Then just go there and buy it, why are you bugging me? That's pretty rude, you know what, just because you sent me that, I'm going to sell it for (the exact price, probably from PUDS gun shop) to the next person that asks me about it... even if it means I have to ship the gun to Pheonix."
or 2:47
[video=youtube_share;nf_w9MI77DM]http://youtu.be/nf_w9MI77DM?t=167[/video]
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If I had 10 million dollars in the bank a $1800 shadow would still be a shit price.
If I needed the gun right then and there though I would pay it, but that doesn't mean the price suddenly, magically stops being shitty because someone is loaded. It's kind of like when I paid like $600 to have the punctured oil pan repaired on my car by a stealership. I KNEW it was a shit price but I simply didn't have the time to mess around with a ghetto solution to save a few hundred bucks. I don't lose sleep over it either. Same thing like the 9mm that appeared during Sandy hook and Obamascare II. At $15 a box everyone knew it was a shit price, but some of us paid it anyways to maintain our stock of ammo. -Mike
If I had 10 million dollars in the bank a $1800 shadow would still be a shit price.
-Mike
Yup
If I had 10 million dollars in the bank a $1800 shadow would still be a shit price.
-Mike
+1
Sometimes, just sometimes you have to overpay for things. You may not like it, but it's a fact of life. And...sometimes you overpay for something because you just NEED to have it or just REALLY like it a lot and don't know when you'll see it again.
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mikelawtown
NES Member
Hard in any State
This, bigger problem is CZ doesn't make enough guns. So when I want one it's not in stock. On top of that, a lot of the mid level distributors don't have access to the better SKus like the Shadow, etc. So selection is spotty.
-Mike
Varmint
NES Member
I wouldn't call the artificial situation created by Mass AGs a free market . . .
Varmint
NES Member
If you're taking the help of the Mass AG to make profit off your fellow Mass victims, that's kind of low, imo. I paid $600 for my CZ P01 and would sell it for that if I sell it.
Every year production shooters proclaim X gun will be the greatest production gun ever. Its a bigger arms race than open
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This isn't a "mass AG thing" it's a buyer market/intelligence/effort thing. Not any different than someone who walks into a car dealership and just pays sticker price. I'm not a master negotiator (I'm pretty shitty at it actually... but I'm not completely meek, either. ) but in at least two cases I've bought guns here that were listed at a shit price for far more reasonable prices. In one case I got a price reduced by $300 because I wasn't a dick to the seller, I was very patient (there were some tire kickers in line in front of me) and made it EASY to do business with me. it's about developing a little intel on the product, where it comes from, what someones time is worth, and making reasonable offers without being a dick while not acting like a 5 year old begging for candy. There's also a HUSTLE factor - Protip: Sellers really like it when you're serious about buying something and are informed. Tire kickers get punished and abused and a seller is generally loathe to negotiate with a tire kicker and 3 or 4 PMs in the seller is already starting to get nauseous.
Actually here's an analogy..... bear with me...
This is Caillou. Nobody likes him. Because he's a whiner. a professional grade whiner. Downtrodden MA gun consumers, most "mass victims" are just like Caillou. They are insufferable.
They whine at the slightest provocation or inconvenience. They sit around and cry about their lot in life as a downtrodden MA gun owner, whining about handgun compliance, whining about the AG. They act like the AG walked up to them, punched them in the face and stole their lunch money when they were 5. They lack patience and anything resembling tenacity. They only shop at 4 seasons and can't be bothered to check out a METRIC TON of other MA gun shops or converse with smaller FFLs even within MA. (yet like 50% of the crying towel crew won't donate to GOAL, Comm2A, etc or even be bothered to participate in any kind of pro rkba activism, being afraid of their own shadow, afraid of talking to people in public, at gun clubs, or at shooting sports events. Afraid of old school ways of doing business. They whine continuously yet they are afraid of doing something like moving or doing something else about whatever their problem is, or working around it.
I mean isn't this the same stuff we bitch about on NES all the time as being pervasive in our society? The victim, snowflake, etc mentality.
MA Gun owners need to be and act less like Caillou and more like these guys, like Tom Brady, Jon Gruden, or something. You know if any of these guys sucked at something they probably did something to get better.
They gotta be... QUICK!!!!! PLIABLE!!!!
Or like Jerry:
Does anyone here ever think that at one point in his life Jerry went around and moped and whined a lot about how he performed? Probably not. He went back to the range. Maybe sought out, and learned alongside people that he knew were better than him, etc.
OR more like:
JOHN CENA
(audio warning loud)
or maybe like Alonzo:
and less like:
Caillou sucks. Nobody should be like Caillou. Not even if they live in New Jersey or something. Particularly over something that's just not that
dramatic.
-Mike
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This isn't a "mass AG thing" it's a buyer market/intelligence/effort thing. Not any different than someone who walks into a car dealership and just pays sticker price. I'm not a master negotiator (I'm pretty shitty at it actually... but I'm not completely meek, either. ) but in at least two cases I've bought guns here that were listed at a shit price for far more reasonable prices. In one case I got a price reduced by $300 because I wasn't a dick to the seller, I was very patient (there were some tire kickers in line in front of me) and made it EASY to do business with me. it's about developing a little intel on the product, where it comes from, what someones time is worth, and making reasonable offers without being a dick while not acting like a 5 year old begging for candy. There's also a HUSTLE factor - Protip: Sellers really like it when you're serious about buying something and are informed. Tire kickers get punished and abused and a seller is generally loathe to negotiate with a tire kicker and 3 or 4 PMs in the seller is already starting to get nauseous.
Actually here's an analogy..... bear with me...
This is Caillou. Nobody likes him. Because he's a whiner. a professional grade whiner. Downtrodden MA gun consumers, most "mass victims" are just like Caillou. They are insufferable.
They whine at the slightest provocation or inconvenience. They sit around and cry about their lot in life as a downtrodden MA gun owner, whining about handgun compliance, whining about the AG. They act like the AG walked up to them, punched them in the face and stole their lunch money when they were 5. They lack patience and anything resembling tenacity. They only shop at 4 seasons and can't be bothered to check out a METRIC TON of other MA gun shops or converse with smaller FFLs even within MA. (yet like 50% of the crying towel crew won't donate to GOAL, Comm2A, etc or even be bothered to participate in any kind of pro rkba activism, being afraid of their own shadow, afraid of talking to people in public, at gun clubs, or at shooting sports events. Afraid of old school ways of doing business. They whine continuously yet they are afraid of doing something like moving or doing something else about whatever their problem is, or working around it.
I mean isn't this the same stuff we bitch about on NES all the time as being pervasive in our society? The victim, snowflake, etc mentality.
MA Gun owners need to be and act less like Caillou and more like these guys, like Tom Brady, Jon Gruden, or something. You know if any of these guys sucked at something they probably did something to get better.
They gotta be... QUICK!!!!! PLIABLE!!!!
Or like Jerry:
Does anyone here ever think that at one point in his life Jerry went around and moped and whined a lot about how he performed? Probably not. He went back to the range. Maybe sought out, and learned alongside people that he knew were better than him, etc.
OR more like:
JOHN CENA
(audio warning loud)
or maybe like Alonzo:
and less like:
Caillou sucks. Nobody should be like Caillou. Not even if they live in New Jersey or something. Particularly over something that's just not that
dramatic.
-Mike
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Another excellent post from Mike
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