I wanted to try some so I got some hornady boat tail 168gr and loaded them with 46gr of H4985. Put 5 in a clip behind some HXP for comparison. They seemed a bit hot to me, I was hearing a bit more noise during cycling than with the HXP. Not sure though if its too much or just different, everything functioned just fine but I don't want to damage the op rod. Thinking I'll try 5 more at 45.5 and 45gr for comparison but was curious if anyone else loads these for their garand? I also found some info that the 168gr match ammo used 46.5gr of Varget so I'll probably try a handful of those as well.
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anyone shoot 168gr in their garand?
- Thread starter jpm
- Start date
Interesting, when researching this I came across some info that may be relevant..."46gr of IMR 4895 is with civilian brass; the NRA M1 data says reduce by 2gr for milsurp brass."
I'm using once fired HXP brass so that could explain why the recommended load felt too hot. I'm going to try some down at 44gr and see how those work before bothering with 45gr.
Forget the gas plug, if your reloading you have control over the correct powder.
heres a good article. The good thing about reloading for the garand,m1a,ar15 is there is nothing really new. Maybe a few powers in the last 20 years. Just thank all the old timers who have sorted out the mysteries 40+ years ago. Use a safe powder with in the safe range of load data and you will be fine.
Call hornady they will email/fax you the 2 pages they have on M1 reload data.
Here is a good little read http://www.crossecreekrifleandpisto...mation/ReloadingForTheM1Rifle_JohnRClarke.pdf
Aslo google C.E. Harris more good reloading info for the "service" rifles.
The 168s (nosler CC here) do very well out of my garands. SOOOOOooo much better than HXP. I cant see spending 1$ per round or more for the hornady or AE "garand" ammo. PPU makes a garand specific round also but I found it was really no better than hxp accuracy wise. The PPU has taken a jump in price. Last time I bought it it was .78 ea shipped now its 1$ round shipped
found the other link page 24 in the handloader magazine. CE Harris reloading the semi auto.
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/hl139partial.pdf
heres a good article. The good thing about reloading for the garand,m1a,ar15 is there is nothing really new. Maybe a few powers in the last 20 years. Just thank all the old timers who have sorted out the mysteries 40+ years ago. Use a safe powder with in the safe range of load data and you will be fine.
Call hornady they will email/fax you the 2 pages they have on M1 reload data.
Here is a good little read http://www.crossecreekrifleandpisto...mation/ReloadingForTheM1Rifle_JohnRClarke.pdf
Aslo google C.E. Harris more good reloading info for the "service" rifles.
The 168s (nosler CC here) do very well out of my garands. SOOOOOooo much better than HXP. I cant see spending 1$ per round or more for the hornady or AE "garand" ammo. PPU makes a garand specific round also but I found it was really no better than hxp accuracy wise. The PPU has taken a jump in price. Last time I bought it it was .78 ea shipped now its 1$ round shipped
found the other link page 24 in the handloader magazine. CE Harris reloading the semi auto.
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/hl139partial.pdf
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was published in 1986..... so theres plenty of years(50yr) of competition with reloads for the garands before this was published.... I did not see anything that seemed high to me?
raises a thought for me though. With powders in the safe burn rate for M1 garands at what point will the PORT preasure raise high enough to do op rod damage? Im guessing short of compressed loads it is tough to get to that point with safe burn rate powders?
raises a thought for me though. With powders in the safe burn rate for M1 garands at what point will the PORT preasure raise high enough to do op rod damage? Im guessing short of compressed loads it is tough to get to that point with safe burn rate powders?
The H4895 loads look too high. 47.5 is showing as max for the 168gr in the most recent chart I got from hodgdon.com. His loads start there and go up! I found 46gr to be pretty hot and just got back from trying 44gr and it seemed to be just about right.
What is your indication of hot load? Do any crony tests?
What I found with my garandsis there is no measurable gain in accuracy over 46.5 grains with the 168s.... I actually load 46 grains for h4895 and varget. Varget in my own loadings groups better or I should say more consistant groups than H4895.
Also if you can tell between 2500fps and 2700 fps with H4895 you have some good senses. If you where to do a blind test I find in almost impossible to tell your)
loads hotness by a change of 2 grains with out a crony.
Go for best groups. Staying below Max.
What I found with my garandsis there is no measurable gain in accuracy over 46.5 grains with the 168s.... I actually load 46 grains for h4895 and varget. Varget in my own loadings groups better or I should say more consistant groups than H4895.
Also if you can tell between 2500fps and 2700 fps with H4895 you have some good senses. If you where to do a blind test I find in almost impossible to tell your)
loads hotness by a change of 2 grains with out a crony.
Go for best groups. Staying below Max.
I tried 46gr varget in mine today as well and it functioned well and hit accurately. Cases ejected at about 3 o'clock 6 feet away. I think I prefer it to H4895 in the garand for the 168gr bullets.
I don't own a chrono, I'm going by the sound of the action. I've got the clip loaded with 2 HXP rounds followed by 6 of the H4985 rounds so I have a point of reference for action sound & recoil before I hit the reloads. There was a distinct metallic sound with the 4985 loaded rounds as though the action were being cycled harder than with HXP and/or Varget rounds which I tested the same way. Sort of a slight clank at the end of the recoil. Didn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling to hear my baby making that sound.
I don't own a chrono, I'm going by the sound of the action. I've got the clip loaded with 2 HXP rounds followed by 6 of the H4985 rounds so I have a point of reference for action sound & recoil before I hit the reloads. There was a distinct metallic sound with the 4985 loaded rounds as though the action were being cycled harder than with HXP and/or Varget rounds which I tested the same way. Sort of a slight clank at the end of the recoil. Didn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling to hear my baby making that sound.
I still think if you did a blind test it be hard to tell the difference.
Don't get me wrong you need no more powder than to cycle the action and acceptable accuracy. Everyone has their pet loads.
I find H4895 more suited for my reduced loads in my bolt actions.
Varget has become one of my favorites all around for rifle. Garand and AR
4064 does well in my bolt guns.... now none of my garands or milsurps are super accurate but my reloads out perform surplus ammo. My best garand shoots just under 3" groups consistantly off the rest. I for the most part am happy if I keep them in the black of a SR1 target. Hxp always has a few flyers to really dump on your score.!
My 1903a3 is my most accurate. Several sub 10 shot 2" groups off the rest and a few close groups near 1" but just not 10 shots... its all fun
Don't get me wrong you need no more powder than to cycle the action and acceptable accuracy. Everyone has their pet loads.
I find H4895 more suited for my reduced loads in my bolt actions.
Varget has become one of my favorites all around for rifle. Garand and AR
4064 does well in my bolt guns.... now none of my garands or milsurps are super accurate but my reloads out perform surplus ammo. My best garand shoots just under 3" groups consistantly off the rest. I for the most part am happy if I keep them in the black of a SR1 target. Hxp always has a few flyers to really dump on your score.!
My 1903a3 is my most accurate. Several sub 10 shot 2" groups off the rest and a few close groups near 1" but just not 10 shots... its all fun
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Hard to tell the difference between HXP and my H4895 loads? I could definitely do that blind from the sound of the action cycling. Its distinctly different. And it did the same with both 46 and 44 grain loads in HXP cases. I tried 44gr in some commercial S&B once fired cases and didn't hear that sound but I think I prefer Varget for the 168gr in the Garand. Both HXP and S&B cases acted similarly with no action noise with 46gr in both. I think I'll keep the 4895 for the 8mm and Eddystone. I did find an AA4064 load using 150gr M2 projectiles that works very nicely so that's my go-to powder for that weight.
I have noticed the same thing you mentioned with the HXP, always seems to be a flyer or two in the bunch. Can't complain though given the price.
If you look at the military test requirements for m2 ball hxp lc ectect its not held to a high standard. 4moa. It can and does shoot better than that but not much.
My reloads with components purchased with in the last year run me. 41 cents
Nosler CC blemished 24 cents powder 14 cents primer 3 cents...brass I was given enough once fired 06 to last me my life time!
Jpm soon maybe you can make it to one of the cmp garand matches and give your rifle and loads a run. I got my 1st silver pin last year......man I was guiddy over that!
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That's definitely on my to do list! My rifle does very well with the HXP, but I want to try it out at longer distances. With all the HXP I got from CMP, I'll definitely be all set for brass for my lifetime lol.
168s in my newest HRA SG
After the hanson CMP shoot today I got to play.
Tested some loads for the 303 brit and got to see how my Latest HRA SG with LMR barrel and ME/2 TE/2 readings shot. I used the 168s to dial in my rifle took 5 shots to get where I liked it... Pictures loaded backwards so its reversed.
All groups where shot off a rest @ 100 yards. Used a center hold on the bull. The "black" is 6 1/4" dia the 10 ring is 3 1/4. HXP seldom groups really well for me in the garands. Theres always a way off flyer in the group. So reloading for a M1 is worth while. Currently my loads are cheaper than HXP surplus
This is 8 rounds of HXP lot 4044-72 this ammo is not the best HXP i have but its what I happen to have in my bag... not so good. This was the last target of the day.
this is 1 of 3 8 shot groups. They all performed as well. one group was actually a bit tighter but it contained 5 9s just low of the 10 ring.....so this group is my highest score of the 3 groups.
Now if I could only shoot gruops like this off the rest! my average with my best Garand is 428/500 best score to date is a 447.
After the hanson CMP shoot today I got to play.
Tested some loads for the 303 brit and got to see how my Latest HRA SG with LMR barrel and ME/2 TE/2 readings shot. I used the 168s to dial in my rifle took 5 shots to get where I liked it... Pictures loaded backwards so its reversed.
All groups where shot off a rest @ 100 yards. Used a center hold on the bull. The "black" is 6 1/4" dia the 10 ring is 3 1/4. HXP seldom groups really well for me in the garands. Theres always a way off flyer in the group. So reloading for a M1 is worth while. Currently my loads are cheaper than HXP surplus
This is 8 rounds of HXP lot 4044-72 this ammo is not the best HXP i have but its what I happen to have in my bag... not so good. This was the last target of the day.
this is 1 of 3 8 shot groups. They all performed as well. one group was actually a bit tighter but it contained 5 9s just low of the 10 ring.....so this group is my highest score of the 3 groups.Now if I could only shoot gruops like this off the rest! my average with my best Garand is 428/500 best score to date is a 447.
Update!
So when I compared my reloads to the HXP M2 ammo, I noticed that mine were quite noticeably shorter. Load table from Hodgdon says 3.230" COL which is what I loaded them to, but HXP is about 3.3 - 3.31x. Decided I'd try loading a few more and seat them to HXP length rather than load table length.
I made 5 and put 3 regular HXP in the clip for comparison, shooting them first. BIG difference! The same 46gr charge that I tried the first time that seemed to be too hot was now cycling more like the HXP, a little bit softer in fact. No sounds of the action being slammed hard with these loads so I think that was the issue. I'm going to load up a couple of clips worth for accuracy testing now that the load seems fine at the longer COL.
So when I compared my reloads to the HXP M2 ammo, I noticed that mine were quite noticeably shorter. Load table from Hodgdon says 3.230" COL which is what I loaded them to, but HXP is about 3.3 - 3.31x. Decided I'd try loading a few more and seat them to HXP length rather than load table length.
I made 5 and put 3 regular HXP in the clip for comparison, shooting them first. BIG difference! The same 46gr charge that I tried the first time that seemed to be too hot was now cycling more like the HXP, a little bit softer in fact. No sounds of the action being slammed hard with these loads so I think that was the issue. I'm going to load up a couple of clips worth for accuracy testing now that the load seems fine at the longer COL.
I load my garand ammo to 3.320" this is close to the Max that will fit in the mag well. I can stretch oal that's base to tip of bullet to 3.35 and still fit the mag.....BUT
one jam during rapids was enough to kick it back to 3.32.
Its fun finding things that work better....not so much finding bad. Like the bat h of hxp I spoke of in previous post. Good thing is I only have 200 rnds of that left.
I like seeing accuracy testing.
one jam during rapids was enough to kick it back to 3.32.
Its fun finding things that work better....not so much finding bad. Like the bat h of hxp I spoke of in previous post. Good thing is I only have 200 rnds of that left.
I like seeing accuracy testing.
