AR Pistol from a lower legality question

[doobie]

What are the rules if I want to build an AR-pistol? I've heard conflicting reports. The two I've heard:

1) It has to be registered as a pistol from the manufacturer and a pistol (or receiver) from the FFL and have never been built to a rifle

2) Above with exception of not being need to be registered at the manufacturer, just that it was at the FFL and never built to a rifle.

EDIT: also does never built as a rifle mean no butt stock or no upper and butt stock (aka if I built a lower with a butt stuck but never matted it with an upper is it legal to do as a pistol)?

 

[vellnueve]

I think it does have to be registered as a pistol from the manufacturer, and the second you put that stock on it it becomes an AOW.

However, I've never really delved as deeply into that part of the law as others, so I'm probably wrong.

 

[EasyD]

Where is that "Aww Jeeze Not This Shit Again" picture when you need it!

Once again, a stripped lower is NOT a pistol or a rifle. If a manufacturer reported to the ATF that it was one or the other, they would have to pay excise tax on it, and would be committing a felony by providing false information to a Federal agency.

Buy a stripped lower, assemble it into a pistol, assuming you're in compliance with State and Local laws, and have a nice life.

--EasyD

 

[EasyD]

I think it does have to be registered as a pistol from the manufacturer, and the second you put that stock on it it becomes an AOW.

However, I've never really delved as deeply into that part of the law as others, so I'm probably wrong.

If you put a stock on a AR lower, which has never before been assembled into a complete firearm, its a rifle for life. SBR or Rifle, but a rifle none the less. If you assemble a AR lower into a pistol, it can be made into a "rifle-like" weapon, and then reconfigured into a pistol at a later date. See the Thompson/Center ruling.

AOWs made from a AR lower will have 2 pistol grips perpendicular to the bore. If you put a stock on one without first registering the lower as an SBR, you've committed a felony.

--EasyD

 

[doobie]

Hm, I thought I read someone on AR-15 about it needing to be registered at the manufacturer. So basically as long as the FFL transferred it as a pistol/receiver/other I should be all set? Of course I don't know why I'm trusting a forum for this kind of legal advice, lol. I guess tomorrow will be read the BATFE firearms regulations.

 

[vellnueve]

I stand heavily corrected. Thanks for the info!

 

[EasyD]

Hm, I thought I read someone on AR-15 about it needing to be registered at the manufacturer. So basically as long as the FFL transferred it as a pistol/receiver/other I should be all set? Of course I don't know why I'm trusting a forum for this kind of legal advice, lol. I guess tomorrow will be read the BATFE firearms regulations.

First of all, manufacturers don't register any firearms, except NFA items, with the ATF. They must provide a yearly report of the number of firearms made, which is how their excise tax is calculated. They can report Shotguns, Rifles, Handguns and Other. A stripped receiver is Other. It is a Title I firearm. There are a few other things that can end up in the Other category, for example 1919s in A4 configuration, breach rings for artillery pieces, etc...

If you're buying a stripped lower, and the FFL reports it as anything other then a stripped lower on the 4473, they are also breaking the law. A good FFL is smart and does the right thing when it comes to lowers. If a lower comes in that has a paper trail of being stripped, and is still stripped, they should log it in to their bound book as a Stripped Receiver. If there is some doubt, or the lower has a stock on it, it should be logged as a Rifle Receiver. Only complete firearms should be logged in and out as Rifle or Pistol in the bound book and on a 4473. For example, once you've assembled your pistol, if you where to trade it in, the dealer should log it as a Pistol.

The manufacturers that are marking lowers as Pistol are really doing the world a disservice. What's to stop me from buying one of those lowers, and assembling it into a rifle? If I did that, then stripped it down and sold it off, and someone later assembled it into a pistol, they would have committed a felony without even knowing it, and they would think they are totally in the clear. Granted it would probably never cause the owner a problem, but if the ATF ever did a trace on the serial number, if the gun was later used in the commission of a crime, for instance, and it came back to me as having once owned it, and I had filed a FA-10 saying it was a rifle, BAM!

--EasyD

 

[jdubois]

If you're buying a stripped lower, and the FFL reports it as anything other then a stripped lower on the 4473, they are also breaking the law.

I know they've recently released new 4473 forms that resolves the problem, but how did you, as an FFL, fill out question 16 on the 4473 forms for a stripped lower, when the only choices were 'Handgun', 'Long Gun', or 'Both'?

 

[EasyD]

I know they've recently released new 4473 forms that resolves the problem, but how did you, as an FFL, fill out question 16 on the 4473 forms for a stripped lower, when the only choices were 'Handgun', 'Long Gun', or 'Both'?

An interesting question... Since all the lowers I ever did 4473s for where in MA, and I really doubt anyone was going to the effort to make a MA legal, post-ban pistol, I usually answered that question with Long Gun. However, it doesn't really matter. That question is used for statistical purposes, and to make sure you only sell handguns to people over 21. The part that actually matters is the descriptions of the firearms sold where there is just a blank field for Type. That's what the ATF looks at when they come snooping around for info. It has to be a blank field because it can contain so many different things.

Shotgun
Rifle
SBR
SBS
MG
AOW
DD
Silencer
Pistol
Revolver
Receiver Only/Stripped Receiver/Etc
Title I Firearm

All are valid in that field. Title I Firearm is kinda an odd one, but is accurate for certain things, like 1919s in A4 configuration and those cute Tippman semi-autos in 22LR. They aren't rifles, as they're not designed to be shoulder fired, and certainly don't fall into any of the other categories, so Title I Firearm is the most accurate description.

--EasyD