AR15's - Who makes the best ones and why?

[ChevyGuy91]

What about this post???? He didn't say he's shot 200,000 rounds through either one of those AR's to prove his comments. And he broke the rules of the thread. As stated in the very first post " do not say the Military uses it so it has to be good"

YET, none attacks him!!!!

No one is attacking you, take a chill pill. We are just passing on the koolaid you are trying to serve.

 

[Supermoto]

You have enough sand in your vag to jam the PWS

I heard its where the Army does the sand test.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

You have enough sand in your vag to jam the PWS

Excellent.

 

[Moderator]

What is wrong with you people!!!! This thread was started because someone wanted to know who the best AR manufacturers are, and why, then that person wanted "evidence" to back up our claims.

1. Take some valume. It's the net, it's not worth getting all bent out of shape over.

2. I know what makes a good AR. My goal was to gather all this info and put it in one thread in hope that noobs would stop creating new threads every week asking "which AR should I buy".

 

[Moderator]

PS, everyone else please stop with the insults. He can't take it and you're not contributing to anything positive with them.

 

[rkwjunior]

1. Take some valume. It's the net, it's not worth getting all bent out of shape over.

2. I know what makes a good AR. My goal was to gather all this info and put it in one thread in hope that noobs would stop creating new threads every week asking "which AR should I buy".

Thats what i did, exactly i you asked, but for some unknown reason people didnt like it

 

[MichaelJR]

What about this post???? He didn't say he's shot 200,000 rounds through either one of those AR's to prove his comments. And he broke the rules of the thread. As stated in the very first post " do not say the Military uses it so it has to be good"

YET, none attacks him!!!!

I own an M6. Not someone that's just posting what I've heard about what I've heard from arfcom and tactical blahblah magazine, I own it, it's sitting in my safe as we speak. I assure you, it makes my old bushmaster look like a child's squirt gun in quality alone. I'll be running a course with it soon, so I'll let you know how it goes. I believe it's a 900 rifle round course 250 pistol in 4 hours, which isn't a huge count, but I won't do anything cleaning wise to the gun during the course. I was going to do a picture review of the gun during the course anyways.

For the record, the M6 and HK416 are essentially the same gun. Either design is more than proven. Both have gone through government testing competing for the colt replacement contract. Both owned the living hell out of the colt.

The design, apparently, is good enough for Delta to switch their entire inventory over, but I guess that doesn't mean anything, those guys are a bunch of prima donna's that don't put holes in people daily in every climate on the planet (insert sarcasm meter). If DI worked so well for them, they would still be using a DI system. Not saying DI isn't a proven system, it has been kicking ass for quite some time. Not saying a top brand DI gun won't perform great, they will. I'm not a "piston is god" fanboy, and a ton of piston guns are overpriced junk. However some of the designs are far from junk, and will run longer, cleaner, and under insane conditions. The high end piston gun manufacturers have made issues of carrier tilt and other early bugs all but null.

So, in conclusion, I didn't break any rules. I cited factual government test data vs our current DI issue (they also went up against the scar), my own ownership, and sure, I guess I could throw in some interwebs b.s. if you'd like. With all that said, I would have no qualms about taking a Noveske or LWRC in a blindfold test (not literally, I'd be aiming) for reliability, accuracy, etc and I wouldn't have any doubt that they would perform better than I ever could, and clean out my entire ammo supply without a cleaning before they stopped ticking. DI vs Piston is a pointless topic if you stick with quality manufacturers.

 

[Madball13]

DI vs Piston is a pointless topic if you stick with quality manufacturers.

Bravo Dude!

 

[andy t]

The design, apparently, is good enough for Delta to switch their entire inventory over,

Are you referring to M6 or 416? Do you have an article on that "switch"?

 

[xtry51]

That's as silly as saying "Why don't they make a Porsche 911 with the engine in the front?!!!?!"

-Mike

 

[rkwjunior]

I own an M6. Not someone that's just posting what I've heard about what I've heard from arfcom and tactical blahblah magazine, I own it, it's sitting in my safe as we speak. I assure you, it makes my old bushmaster look like a child's squirt gun in quality alone. I'll be running a course with it soon, so I'll let you know how it goes. I believe it's a 900 rifle round course 250 pistol in 4 hours, which isn't a huge count, but I won't do anything cleaning wise to the gun during the course. I was going to do a picture review of the gun during the course anyways.

For the record, the M6 and HK416 are essentially the same gun. Either design is more than proven. Both have gone through government testing competing for the colt replacement contract. Both owned the living hell out of the colt.

The design, apparently, is good enough for Delta to switch their entire inventory over, but I guess that doesn't mean anything, those guys are a bunch of prima donna's that don't put holes in people daily in every climate on the planet (insert sarcasm meter). If DI worked so well for them, they would still be using a DI system. Not saying DI isn't a proven system, it has been kicking ass for quite some time. Not saying a top brand DI gun won't perform great, they will. I'm not a "piston is god" fanboy, and a ton of piston guns are overpriced junk. However some of the designs are far from junk, and will run longer, cleaner, and under insane conditions. The high end piston gun manufacturers have made issues of carrier tilt and other early bugs all but null.

So, in conclusion, I didn't break any rules. I cited factual government test data vs our current DI issue (they also went up against the scar), my own ownership, and sure, I guess I could throw in some interwebs b.s. if you'd like. With all that said, I would have no qualms about taking a Noveske or LWRC in a blindfold test (not literally, I'd be aiming) for reliability, accuracy, etc and I wouldn't have any doubt that they would perform better than I ever could, and clean out my entire ammo supply without a cleaning before they stopped ticking. DI vs Piston is a pointless topic if you stick with quality manufacturers.

Thanx for all that great info, to bad everyone else , except me, need written proof of your claims. Without detailed spreadsheets on your claims, "its all hearsay".

 

[MassMark]

Because breathing Russian gunpowder makes you retarded

Line of the day! You get 1 rep point, 3 internets and a beer one of these days...

 

[Madball13]

This just blew my mind, Four Seasons is selling the Stag Arms AR with the Plus package for around $1K. For those who don't know Stag charges extra to have your gun "upgraded" to proper military specifications. Compnaies like Daniel Defense, Colt, LMT don't make guns they need to "Plus Package" cause they do it right to begin with.

So to compare apples to apples you got a Stag with proper sepc for $1K or you can get the following:

http://www.smartgunner.com/DD-16-GOVT-M-STR-URG-1.aspx
http://www.smartgunner.com/magpulcarbinehandguardforarriflesodgreen.aspx
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=27650/Product/AR-15-M16-COMPLETE-BOLT-CARRIER-GROUP
http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/spider-bullet-lower-w-standard-kit-m4-stock-p-589.html

Final - $879

This was literally 5 minutes of searching and i'm sure you can get a cheaper handgaurd and a cheaper lower.

When all is said and done you got a great rifle with quality that far exceeds a "plus package".

 

[Da_lucche]

This just blew my mind, Four Seasons is selling the Stag Arms AR with the Plus package for around $1K. For those who don't know Stag charges extra to have your gun "upgraded" to proper military specifications. Compnaies like Daniel Defense, Colt, LMT don't make guns they need to "Plus Package" cause they do it right to begin with.

So to compare apples to apples you got a Stag with proper sepc for $1K or you can get the following:

http://www.smartgunner.com/DD-16-GOVT-M-STR-URG-1.aspx
http://www.smartgunner.com/magpulcarbinehandguardforarriflesodgreen.aspx
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=27650/Product/AR-15-M16-COMPLETE-BOLT-CARRIER-GROUP
http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/spider-bullet-lower-w-standard-kit-m4-stock-p-589.html

Final - $879

This was literally 5 minutes of searching and i'm sure you can get a cheaper handgaurd and a cheaper lower.

When all is said and done you got a great rifle with quality that far exceeds a "plus package".

Well in addition you will need to purchase a muzzle brake to replace the FH since the spikes lower is not PB and then pay for a blind weld or pin. Also add in the $40 transfer change. Your 879 rifle is now hovering at 1k or a bit more depending on the type of brake and who you use for a gunsmith.

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[PaulD]

Well in addition you will need to purchase a muzzle brake to replace the FH since the spikes lower is not PB and then pay for a blind weld or pin. Also add in the $40 transfer change. Your 879 rifle is now hovering at 1k or a bit more depending on the type of brake and who you use for a gunsmith.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Does the Stag at FS have any muzzle device? It seems that most factory ARs sold in MA dealers don't.

 

[atmay]

Well in addition you will need to purchase a muzzle brake to replace the FH since the spikes lower is not PB and then pay for a blind weld or pin. Also add in the $40 transfer change. Your 879 rifle is now hovering at 1k or a bit more depending on the type of brake and who you use for a gunsmith.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

If you pay $40 for a transfer, you're getting ****ed.

 

[PaulD]

If you pay $40 for a transfer, you're getting ****ed.

The minimum I've seen is $30 and maybe some place charges $25. Woopty do.

 

[mike01824]

If you pay $40 for a transfer, you're getting ****ed.

You mean there are gun shops other than Four Seasons? [/sarcasm]

 

[Moderator]

The minimum I've seen is $30 and maybe some place charges $25. Woopty do.

I pay $20 at my regular local shop, but we also have one in RI that will do it for free for anyone.

 

[atmay]

I pay $20 at my regular local shop, but we also have one in RI that will do it for free for anyone.

This. $20 is as much as I'll pay.



Also, to stay relevant, I would much rather spend close to $1k on an AR made of Spikes/DD components than Stag.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

I would much rather spend close to $1k on an AR made of Spikes/DD components than Stag.

This. My Spikes/YHM lower carbine would have come in at just a touch under 1K, if I didn't want to use the FSC556 comp.

 

[cekim]

This. My Spikes/YHM lower carbine would have come in at just a touch under 1K, if I didn't want to use the FSC556 comp.

The only thing more obnoxious than loud comps is loud comps that don't work... [sad2]

 

[ChevyGuy91]

The only thing more obnoxious than loud comps is loud comps that don't work... [sad2]

If the BC1.5 had been out at the time, I would have gone for that instead.

 

[cekim]

If the BC1.5 had been out at the time, I would have gone for that instead.

I have 2.0s on mine... Fantastic.

 

[Madball13]

Well in addition you will need to purchase a muzzle brake to replace the FH since the spikes lower is not PB and then pay for a blind weld or pin. Also add in the $40 transfer change. Your 879 rifle is now hovering at 1k or a bit more depending on the type of brake and who you use for a gunsmith.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

You can get a brake for $20, like I said it was 5 minutes of searching, I bet you can do better if you try.

For brakes and comps, just get a quality gun and shoot it then figure out if you really need all this extra crap.

 

[Blitz1]

Here's some specifics.... Tier 1 rifles, like Colt, BCM, LMT, Noveske, Larue, JP, etc, have things like:

-Properly staked bolt carrier gas keys that don't vibrate loose

-MP tested bolts and carriers (higher likelihood of not crumbling into dust sooner rather than later due to metallurgical flaws)

-Better quality control (When's the last time you heard of someone that bought a Colt that was a piece of s**t out of the box? Not that it doesn't happen, but it's pretty rare)

-Barrels that aren't s**t. They almost all use 1/7 or 1/8 instead of the 1/9 fudd twist, and on top of all that, better barrels are more accurate with more bullet weights.

-Approval by pro trainers and guys who kill bad guys for a living (Yes, this isn't technical, but IMO this is worth a lot to me. Given a choice between some random thing and a rifle that a pro is willing to trust his life to, I'd rather use the pro's choice. )

This isn't to imply there aren't a lot of Tier-2 rifles which aren't damned good values, eg, S&W, RRA, etc. It's just that when you go out of the top end, your trust of the rifle should be speculative at best.

There is stuff at the bottom like Olympic/Hesse/etc. that is basically best avoided. A commercially made rifle for $600 = run away, fast. Quality control is nonexistent and corners are cut at every turn on those guns. They are junk masquerading as an AR-15 clone. Olys are like the fung wah bus... there's a reason the tickets are so cheap. Don't be surprised if the bus catches on fire on the way to NYC. There is a bunch of other no name junk in this price class too, same deal. You will know it when you see it.

If you need a rifle for that cheap you are far better off building it yourself. You will save money and end up with a better gun.

-Mike

This

 

[PaulD]

You can get a brake for $20, like I said it was 5 minutes of searching, I bet you can do better if you try.

For brakes and comps, just get a quality gun and shoot it then figure out if you really need all this extra crap.

The problem there is that this idea of shooting it before putting a brake on the gun, at least in MA, is an AWB violation. Or at least probably is. If you have no muzzle device, you either have a threaded barrel or a non-threaded barrel. Shooting a gun like the former is an AWB violation and shooting one like the latter means you're getting the barrel threaded by a gunsmith.

Just get a Battlecomp or maybe the Spike's clone and be done with it.

 

[Madball13]

Just get a Battlecomp or maybe the Spike's clone and be done with it.

Here is the problem i see and it is in no way directed at you, PaulD, people get it in there head that they have to have items like a $140 battlecomp when they have no idea how an AR even shoots then when they price everything out quality is sacrificed where it counts.

 

[cekim]

Here is the problem i see and it is in no way directed at you, PaulD, people get it in there head that they have to have items like a $140 battlecomp when they have no idea how an AR even shoots then when they price everything out quality is sacrificed where it counts.

As with all things "have to have" is relative to use and budget. Almost without fail, this particular item (BattleComp) will make any rifle "better." Whether or not the improvement is essential or more important than some other upgrade is a function of use. If you shoot off the bench at a fudd club that does not allow rapid fire - skip it. If you expect to do rapid follow up shots off-hand or "faster" , it will significantly improve the handling of the rifle.

My mention of BattleComp was just to point out that many comps are just senselessly loud and not terribly effective, so get something cheap that looks nice (or nothing at all) unless you are going to get something works.

 

[Supermoto]

All comps are a compromise. The Battecomp gives up effectiveness for less noise. The SJC is very loud but very effective. You can't have both. F the people around me, I want a gun that shoots soft and flat.