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AR15's - Who makes the best ones and why?
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If someone told you it's as reliable as an AK, would you still not buy one??
What your getting is "near" AK reliability, and i said "near" because it's still being proven due to it being new to the AR platform, but If it worked for the AK why can't it work for an AR??? Is it wrong to use a proven technology on another rifle platform?? i think not.
Like i said in my last post " why doesn't anyone make a Direct impingement AK"??, Should Ford go back to making Model T's???
All that money???? you can easily spend that kind of money on a highend DI rifle or upper. I'm sure you'll see prices start to fall.
Why is everyone so against an AR Gas Piston system if it can work better???? Are you afraid of cheating on Eugene???
I don't buy anything cause some dude tells me it's "near" AK reliable, i could give 2 shits if it's near AK reliable, define for me what that even means.
why don't you just buy an AK?
ChevyGuy91
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Only if I could quick scope with it.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Cause AK's are ugly, Heavy, and less accurate. I like the AR's modularity, i can make it 7.62, 5.56, 300 blackout, 9mm, 22lr in seconds, all i need is a trunk full of uppers and magazines. I can have a 12" barrel for CQB, and a 20" barrel for long range. I can make it whatever i want. It's like a transformer!!!
I would never buy one cause of what some "dude" said either. Theres first hand proof all over the internet with people that have used the Gas Piston system. Like i said it hasn't been proven to be long term reliable yet. I have yet to hear anyone say it will never work as good as a DI, at the very least. As of right now it seems to be every bit as good as a DI, which doesn't give me any reason not to buy one.
Lwrc and hk416. Both smoked our current issue across the board. Lwrc passed some serious underwater testing. Plenty of data of govt testing for both, and both have contracts. I'd hardly say piston guns are lacking mil-spec field tests.
Sent from my iPhone in the secret lair of the Supreme ruler of the ozone layer, the Dark Lord Kramdar.
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It will take decades of war in 3rd world countries with child soldiers to show that a piston AR can be dropped and picked up by as many people as an AK and still fired for several rounds before being dropped again...
So of someone has a registered pre-86 M16 (full auto), could they then also register the lower for a SBR and put a SBR upper on it?
No need for a second stamp on an NFA registered MG lower.
Thanks for the info. Granted I cant have either until I move to MI, but good to know.
Do you have any first hand knowledge of your own to back up any claims you are making or just what you read on he internet? There are quite a few here that i actually know and who know me and we actually shoot these guns on a regular basis and not 100-150 rounds on a Saturday off of a bench. Guys here shoot matches and take classes pushing the DI AR shooting 500+ rounds a day or shooting accurately out to 600 yards.
We don't need someone to push the DI, it's already been pushed, we need someone to push the Piston system and then give us the results.
Clearly, according to you, and lucky for us, it sounds like the results are in!!!!
I have made no claims of knowledge beyond what i've seen and read, and have yet to say myself, that one is better than the other.
If you read my very first post on page 23, all i was suggesting was for people to check out the PWS AR gas piston system, and that it had AK DNA, then i was brutally attacked with condasending replies. WTF!!!!Why are there so many people here shit talkin the gas piston AR???
I don't have nearly the range time anyone here has with either rifle. But i don't need range time to prove the reliability and operation of a certain AR gas sysytem when theres people like you that have the time and dedication to run these rifles through there paces on a regular basis and then pass on the information in a forum. Word of mouth is enough to help ordinary weekend range warriors make the right choice when purchasing any firearm.
I don't need to shoot a Glock myself to prove it's reasons for popularity, we all know they are great in many ways, most know this by word of mouth, especially guys that are new to the sport and walk in with no knowledge at all. They don't have to go to the range 5 days a week to prove to themselves they made a good purchase.
I'm just passing on information that may help the next guy.
ChevyGuy91
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But you're not, you're regurgitating second hand internet information. If you had come into this thread and said, "I bought a PWS upper a year ago, and have run 2k rounds through it and have had no failures, it is sub-moa accurate, it makes me run faster, jumper higher, and hot chicks dig it!" THEN you would be posting information the next guy could use. Kicking in the door and shouting "O HAI GUISE, I RED ABOUT PWS. IT HAS AK PISTON. INTERNET SAYS IT IS CATS MEOW", is going to get all kinds of sarcastic remarks, like this one.
Because it's not, that would be a bold faced lie. Look at the locking lugs on an AR-15, (piston or otherwise), look at the bolt carrier clearances, then look at the bolt on an AK and the clearances there, and then come back to us once you've done your homework. An AR-15 locks up like a bank vault and an AK is a hotdog in a hallway, not to mention the fact that, the rifles (normally) don't even use similar cartridges, the two most popular AK rounds use a case with a significant taper and 5.56 NATO is pretty straight overall. The two guns are not playing in the same ballpark mechanically, that's why the comparison is typically pretty insane.
Wrong. You don't get something for nothing. You get added weight and complexity, as well as a significant change in the recoil characteristics of the rifle. There is no free lunch. The biggest benefit of a piston AR upper is you get a cleaner running rifle, and it might be more reliable under duress, assuming no other issues with the design are in play. (like carrier tilt). It's apparent from
some designs that there ARE long term issues.
Terrible argument- the platform was never designed around that concept to begin with. That's as silly as saying "Why don't they make a Porsche 911 with the engine in the front?!!!?!"
The money argument is somewhat nebulous, although I can tell you this much- if you built a Tier 1 DI AR, your resale value and ability to sell it will be better.
While it's a good idea in principle it often fails in execution. Then you have the problem of having a gun that is not standardized, so you lose a significant advantage to having an AR-15, which is, a crapload of standardized parts.
If I am going to go for something that has proprietary stuff in it, I might as well change out the whole rifle at that point to something better suited to have a piston in it, which is something that isn't going to be an AR-15. Jerry rigging a piston to push an AR-15 bolt carrier back is just kind of mind numbing to me. Like Supermoto says, that crap has to be on rails. Otherwise it's going to flop around in there and cause problems.
If piston AR-15s were so awesome, then every major carbine trainer would be pushing them big time, and nobody would be buying DI gas AR's anymore. There might come a day where something like that happens, but I'm just not seeing it yet. Even if it does happen, I doubt the rifle that is produced can really be called an AR-15 anymore, at least as far as the upper is concerned.
-Mike
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Spreading information that may not be accurate is not help. Remember, it's the internut, and everybody is an expert....behind their keyboard.
I will also echo what Mike said. If you are really want to know more about piston, go to m4carbine.net. I somebody there asked Larry Vickers about piston vs DI, and read his answer.
What is wrong with you people!!!! This thread was started because someone wanted to know who the best AR manufacturers are, and why, then that person wanted "evidence" to back up our claims.
So... i simply said the name of the company "PWS" and then attached videos to back up some "evidence" of it possibly being a good sysytem!!!!! It just another system i thought people should have a look at. HOLY SHIT!!! I"M NOT SPREADING ANY INFORMATION THATS NOT TRUE, THATS WHY I ATTACHED VIDEOS OF ONE PARTICULAR COMPARISON!!!!!!!!
I NEVER SAID IT WAS THE BEST SYSYTEM IN THE WORLD, OR THAT ITS BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSES AR WTF!!!!!
You can't tell me that everyone who has put in there 2cents about a particular AR manufacturer has extensive trigger time with these rifles!!!!! ALOT of it is "What they have Heard" then its passed on by this thread and other means of communication.
Thats the beauty of the the internet
So... i simply said the name of the company "PWS" and then attached videos to back up some "evidence" of it possibly being a good sysytem!!!!! It just another system i thought people should have a look at. HOLY SHIT!!! I"M NOT SPREADING ANY INFORMATION THATS NOT TRUE, THATS WHY I ATTACHED VIDEOS OF ONE PARTICULAR COMPARISON!!!!!!!!
I NEVER SAID IT WAS THE BEST SYSYTEM IN THE WORLD, OR THAT ITS BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSES AR WTF!!!!!
You can't tell me that everyone who has put in there 2cents about a particular AR manufacturer has extensive trigger time with these rifles!!!!! ALOT of it is "What they have Heard" then its passed on by this thread and other means of communication.
Thats the beauty of the the internet
What about this post???? He didn't say he's shot 200,000 rounds through either one of those AR's to prove his comments. And he broke the rules of the thread. As stated in the very first post " do not say the Military uses it so it has to be good"
YET, none attacks him!!!!
I'm not sure why your getting all fired up with swearing and caps, this is a discussion and you should assume we are being calm and collective on our end until you see something like capitol letters and swearing that would make you think we are not being rational.
That being said what i see is someone (rkwjunior) who has already made up his mind what AR style gun he is getting and went on NES to validate his decision. I decided to give advice against your pick, it's nothing personal, just my experience. If you still feel strongly about the PWS, buy it put 10,000 rounds through it at 2-3 day carbine classes and then report back your findings.
Now your just acting butt hurt.
