AR15's - Who makes the best ones and why?

A piston rifle has some benefits for specific applications, but for general purpose use a DI 16" AR works extremely well. I would recommend browsing the SME section on m4carbine.net as a number of "been there, done that" people address similar questions.
Also, if you are dying for a piston, I would not get a Sig. Another thing to keep in mind about pistons, especially for ARs - they introduce more parts, none which are standard, since there is no government Technical Data Package for a mil spec piston AR. Those extra parts, are also prone to breakage, and can down your rifle, therefore making it less reliable than a DI AR. I saw an AR with home installed piston kit shit the bed during VTAC training class.

boatman said:
Ok. As a noob who has read thru this entire thread, this was extremely interesting to me to find out regarding the sig556.

The question I now have is will the sig be more reliant as a gas piston gun? It was my understanding that gas piston is. At the top of my list is reliability. So before I go put together or purchase a colt/bcm, etc, is this implying the sig will hold up better , be less prone to breakdown, ftf, etc?

BTW, there was a pretty cool show on military channel a few nights ago comparing the ak47 to the M4 etc. Good history lesson, very interesting, .
Click to expand...
 
Stay away from CMMG

Stay away from CMMG, they are a cheaper AR and they do not release where they get there barrels or where any of there parts come from, they wont even tell you if there made in the US, which makes be believe they get crap chinese metals. They are all smoke and mirrors. I wouldnt give them a cent of business.
 
andy t said:
A piston rifle has some benefits for specific applications, but for general purpose use a DI 16" AR works extremely well. I would recommend browsing the SME section on m4carbine.net as a number of "been there, done that" people address similar questions.
Also, if you are dying for a piston, I would not get a Sig. Another thing to keep in mind about pistons, especially for ARs - they introduce more parts, none which are standard, since there is no government Technical Data Package for a mil spec piston AR. Those extra parts, are also prone to breakage, and can down your rifle, therefore making it less reliable than a DI AR. I saw an AR with home installed piston kit shit the bed during VTAC training class.
Click to expand...

I mostly agree with you but not on the added parts = less reliability. Obviously an AK has those parts and is usually going to be very reliable. Same goes for an M14.

If you have to have a piston AR, get a good one. I'd go with something like an LWRC or Barrett or one of those if I really had to have one. That said, if you have to have a piston, I think it's better to start with a design that started that way from the beginning.
 
sf3pox1 said:
Colt
BCM
Daniel Defense
Noveske
LMT
(Spikes)
(LaRue)

For the reasons outlined in "The Chart":

http://gunfacts.webs.com/M4Chart1.gif

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

I couldn't say it better myself.
Click to expand...

Both my AR rifles are Colts. Both are Pre-Bans because the AWB is complete BS and Mitt Romney is a Constitution ignoring and Bill of Rights trampling idiot...

I made the Colt choice for the reasons outlined in "The Chart"... I have not had any problems with either of them and I don't expect I will... The rifle is capable of better accuracy than I am...

Also the offer to acquire pre-ban Colt AR 15's (Sporter test fired only, and a AR-15 A2 Government Carbine with less then 200 rounds fired and a bag full of unmarked 20 and 30 round mags) does not come along often.. I had been shopping around for some time and wanted a well made rifle. Colt And BCM were the top choices for me...
 
As a fine demonstration of "quality is about statistics," I purchased 2 Daniel Defense complete BCG's and both suffer from weak extractor spring issues out of the box (in DD uppers with DD barrels as well). I usually have good luck with DD and I will continue to buy them as long as I continue to see good build quality, but there are no guarantees with machinery...

Buying "better brands" is about increasing the QC and reducing the changes of getting a lemon part, so "works for me" is only useful in the aggregate.
 
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I don't really know which one is best but my wallet has allowed me to buy from LaRue this time around a PredatAR 7.62.
The others I have are built from various small makers not listed here even though they have been flawless performers, this time I wanted to go with some proven quality.
LWRC was my first choice but no 7.62.

I totally agree with Cekim's sentiment.
 
Last edited:
sf3pox1 said:
Colt
BCM
Daniel Defense
Noveske
LMT
(Spikes)
(LaRue)

For the reasons outlined in "The Chart":

http://gunfacts.webs.com/M4Chart1.gif

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

I couldn't say it better myself.
Click to expand...

I am new to the AR scene as I have mainly only ever dealt with handguns (due to my state and gun range). I love this Chart and it is very informative.

However, I do not see the like of the Ruger SR-556 or the H&K MR556A1 listed, which happen to be the two models I am looking into. Anyone know how these stack up agaisnt the ones listed in the Chart?
 
This thread is way to long for me to read all the posts, so i'm not sure if anyone mentioned this company.

PWS

Everyone thats never heard of PWS might want to check out there piston system. It's the closest to an AK as it gets, the piston rod is attached to the BCG (long stroke), so there is no impact on the BCG like in the more common (short stroke) piston systems out there. That impact over time on the BCG from the piston rod is a reliability problem, it causes "carrier tilt" which will eventually wear down your lower. As far as i know this is the only company with a "long stroke" piston system with AK D.N.A

I've research this system alot, checked other forums, Youtube, you name it, not one person has complained about issues.

I'm sold!!!...........aaaaahhhh, as soon as i get the money!!![crying]

I'm slappin an upper right on my Pre ban Colt Gov't model.

Check out this guys You Tube videos and page. He also has a video of a POF AR-15 failure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80TZBL4tpps&list=UUkpBxv24hG8_lXZx0DHAnHQ&index=25&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL_EJw3rltg&list=UUkpBxv24hG8_lXZx0DHAnHQ&index=24&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6XjwL93wo8&list=UUkpBxv24hG8_lXZx0DHAnHQ&index=23&feature=plcp
 
rkwjunior said:
This thread is way to long for me to read all the posts, so i'm not sure if anyone mentioned this company.

PWS

Everyone thats never heard of PWS might want to check out there piston system. It's the closest to an AK as it gets, the piston rod is attached to the BCG (long stroke), so there is no impact on the BCG like in the more common (short stroke) piston systems out there. That impact over time on the BCG from the piston rod is a reliability problem, it causes "carrier tilt" which will eventually wear down your lower. As far as i know this is the only company with a "long stroke" piston system with AK D.N.A

I've research this system alot, checked other forums, Youtube, you name it, not one person has complained about issues.

I'm sold!!!...........aaaaahhhh, as soon as i get the money!!![crying]

I'm slappin an upper right on my Pre ban Colt Gov't model.

Check out this guys You Tube videos and page. He also has a video of a POF AR-15 failure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80TZBL4tpps&list=UUkpBxv24hG8_lXZx0DHAnHQ&index=25&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL_EJw3rltg&list=UUkpBxv24hG8_lXZx0DHAnHQ&index=24&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6XjwL93wo8&list=UUkpBxv24hG8_lXZx0DHAnHQ&index=23&feature=plcp
Click to expand...

The Robinson XCR, while not an AR, is closer in concept to an AK than that PWS is.
 
rkwjunior said:
Maybe so, But this is an AR thread.
Click to expand...

I'd rather have a quality DI gas upper any day of the week then some frankenpiston-AR thing. Pointless. For what one of those things costs you can get a Noveske, BCM, etc upper and be better off in the end. Piston AR uppers are a solution for a problem that mostly doesn't exist.

If I wanted a piston driven gun it wouldn't be an AR. The platform really isn't designed for it. I'd rather have an XCR, SCAR-L, or something like that instead, if I really HAD to have a piston.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
I'd rather have a quality DI gas upper any day of the week then some frankenpiston-AR thing. Pointless. For what one of those things costs you can get a Noveske, BCM, etc upper and be better off in the end. Piston AR uppers are a solution for a problem that mostly doesn't exist.

If I wanted a piston driven gun it wouldn't be an AR. The platform really isn't designed for it. I'd rather have an XCR, SCAR-L, or something like that instead, if I really HAD to have a piston.




-Mike
Click to expand...

I'm not sure anyone, including these companies that manufacture Gas Piston Uppers think theres a problem with the DI system?.Who's to say you can't make an AR perform better and more reliablbly, in my opinion, this in not reinventing the wheel . As with anything they both have there pros and cons, but time will tell as far as long term reliability is concerened, as we all know these piston gas systems in the AR platform are relativley new, and i'm willing to give it a (shot).


I would consider another type of rifle like the SCAR-L, but the beauty of the AR is i can make it "evil" with a pre ban lower. Thats very important to me. And also the abilty to change uppers in seconds is very appealing. One minute its a long range monster, then the next its a CQB badass.

AAAAHHH the beauty of technology!!!
 
86081_ORIG-lol_wut4.jpg
 
rkwjunior said:
I would consider another type of rifle like the SCAR-L, but the beauty of the AR is i can make it "evil" with a pre ban lower. Thats very important to me. And also the abilty to change uppers in seconds is very appealing. One minute its a long range monster, then the next its a CQB badass.
Click to expand...

Your post got me thinking. If a person has a pre-ban "evil" lower, and also has a SBR upper (registered seperately), could he then combine the 2 without having to go through ATF hell?
 
rkwjunior said:
This thread is way to long for me to read all the posts, so i'm not sure if anyone mentioned this company.

PWS

Everyone thats never heard of PWS might want to check out there piston system. It's the closest to an AK as it gets, the piston rod is attached to the BCG (long stroke), so there is no impact on the BCG like in the more common (short stroke) piston systems out there. That impact over time on the BCG from the piston rod is a reliability problem, it causes "carrier tilt" which will eventually wear down your lower. As far as i know this is the only company with a "long stroke" piston system with AK D.N.A

I've research this system alot, checked other forums, Youtube, you name it, not one person has complained about issues.

I'm sold!!!...........aaaaahhhh, as soon as i get the money!!![crying]

I'm slappin an upper right on my Pre ban Colt Gov't model.

Check out this guys You Tube videos and page. He also has a video of a POF AR-15 failure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80TZBL4tpps&list=UUkpBxv24hG8_lXZx0DHAnHQ&index=25&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL_EJw3rltg&list=UUkpBxv24hG8_lXZx0DHAnHQ&index=24&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6XjwL93wo8&list=UUkpBxv24hG8_lXZx0DHAnHQ&index=23&feature=plcp
Click to expand...

So PWS is the new flavor of the month?

I still don't understand what your are getting for all that money.
 
Bob Palermo said:
Your post got me thinking. If a person has a pre-ban "evil" lower, and also has a SBR upper (registered seperately), could he then combine the 2 without having to go through ATF hell?
Click to expand...
Uppers are just hunks of metal (with the exception of specific guns where the upper is the registered part with the ATF - don't ask...), but on the AR platform, the issue is whether the lower receiver (aka: "the gun" to the ATF) is registered as an SBR, if it is then you can put a short barrel on it. If it isn't you cannot. There is no going around this - each and every lower that you put that barrel on must be registered - period.
 
cekim said:
Uppers are just hunks of metal (with the exception of specific guns where the upper is the registered part with the ATF - don't ask...), but on the AR platform, the issue is whether the lower receiver (aka: "the gun" to the ATF) is registered as an SBR, if it is then you can put a short barrel on it. If it isn't you cannot. There is no going around this - each and every lower that you put that barrel on must be registered - period.
Click to expand...

Unless you live in a free state and the AR lower has no stock on it. Then you can put as short a barrel as you want on it.
 

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