Yes it does
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ATF Form 4 thread. Process and approvals!
- Thread starter 42!
- Start date
DarthRevan
NES Member
Print out or have a copy of the approved paperwork on your phone on the off chance your dealer hasn’t checked their email yet.
Asaltweapon
NES Member
I got the phone call today from the shop and an email from BATFE saying all set.
Close enough to say it took 10 months.
Time for a road trip!!!
Close enough to say it took 10 months.
Time for a road trip!!!
DarthRevan
NES Member
I’m considering setting up a single trust instead of multiple single shot ones.
Should I bother looking at ways other than directly through silencer shop?
Leaning this way so it’s easier to add people to it in the future.
Edited for thread relevance: thing I might order a 5.56 rc2 soon.
Should I bother looking at ways other than directly through silencer shop?
Leaning this way so it’s easier to add people to it in the future.
Edited for thread relevance: thing I might order a 5.56 rc2 soon.
Asaltweapon
NES Member
This is my first Form 4 under the new regs.
Do they send me the original like when I built a sbr or does ATF send it to the place of purchase?
Do they send me the original like when I built a sbr or does ATF send it to the place of purchase?
Did you efile or was it a paper form 4?
Asaltweapon
NES Member
Sorry. I forgot to add efile.
If it's efile them the email you get has the form 4 attached to it. You print that out and that's your form 4. The dealer you purchased it through also get the email with the form 4 attached.
Asaltweapon
NES Member
Thanks.
No more original copy sent.
No not if you do efile. Paper form 4 yes.
Asaltweapon
NES Member
Tartakovsky
NES Member
Capitol Armory cans came through big. First cans submitted from 11/22 were approved end of March. Got some more approved in April, some more in May, and last batch approved two weeks ago from December. 11 out of 11 ordered mid November and end of December, arrived to my front door last week. Two batch approvals, a group of 3 and a group of 5. Hoping my cans from White Birch / Silencershop go as quickly.
Still waiting on my first that was submitted early November 2022. I’m starting to get antsy. I’m really hoping they will throw in the other 2 I submitted early January.
DarthRevan
NES Member
230 days are the current average.
DarthRevan
NES Member
Wtf…
Tartakovsky
NES Member
Earliest submissions were April too
Has anyone ever considered that the excessive delay in processing form 4 constitute a seizure of property as it denies the use of that property? Even though it is temporary, it would be a a violation of 4th amendment rights.
Given that the background check isn't significantly different from a NICS check, it shouldn't take any longer. The registration component can't possibly add more that a couple minutes. Sounds to me like the delay is both a 2a and 4a violation.
Given that the background check isn't significantly different from a NICS check, it shouldn't take any longer. The registration component can't possibly add more that a couple minutes. Sounds to me like the delay is both a 2a and 4a violation.
steve8140
NES Member
The actual process of any NFA item is only a few minutes to review the paperwork.
The real wait is due to the lack of employees that do the job and it takes 7-10 months currently just to come across someone’s desk.
That said, I agree. There’s no reason silencers should even be involved in the NFA but since they are there’s no reason they can’t be processed that day like buying any other firearm.
Pay the $200 tax at the register (again, not that I agree with it) and walk out with your item.
But government must make it as dumb as it possibly can.
The real wait is due to the lack of employees that do the job and it takes 7-10 months currently just to come across someone’s desk.
That said, I agree. There’s no reason silencers should even be involved in the NFA but since they are there’s no reason they can’t be processed that day like buying any other firearm.
Pay the $200 tax at the register (again, not that I agree with it) and walk out with your item.
But government must make it as dumb as it possibly can.
I have my doubts about this reasoning and have started to think, that this is just the "reason" they are telling us.
Consider this:
When the "new" E system went online it was supposed to radically speed up the process, and for a very short while it did. Oddly, it sped up the approval for those filed with the new system, but those that had already been waiting didn't see any increase in speed. Why would an eform4 filed a month before the "new" system take a year while one filed a month later take only 2 months. Almost like they prioritized the new ones to justify what they spent.
And why did this faster system creep back to roughly the same delays as before?
While the number of forms filed has generally, and radically, increased, there are still variations from month to month. But despite both the general increase and the variations, the delay times stay very much the same.
This is more indicative of a system designed around maintaining a delay than it is a resource issue. And if it's just a backlog, they could easily clear that with a temp reallocation of resources for a month or two.
But all this is irrelevant as an excessive delay, regardless of the reason is a violation of your rights. If they can't fulfill their obligations due to the process, then it's on them to change the process.
I'll refine my suggested rights challenge. It should only be filed for suppressors, make no mention at any point about other items. Then argue the 2a point and that the delay is substantially similar to calling all areas sensitive as discussed in Bruin. At that point the easiest defence will be that they are not firearms....... An argument that sets themselves up for suppressors being totally removed from the NFA and thus no more form1 or 4 for them.
Once suppressors are easily available, and the streets don't run red, that can be used to counter that the NFA as it was a necessary protection, and that, combined with the still present delay for SBRs and SBSs , should provide good ammunition to shoot those down as well.
One step at a time, it's how we ended up here, and it's how we will walk it back.
There just isn't the political capital for any legislature member to go near NFA. It is a hornets nest, and isn't of interest to enough constituents to lose their job over. People think machine guns are illegal, and most people don't care much about suppressors one way or another as long as they can get them somehow. This one is a dead end for both sides unfortunately.
BUT the SC could arguably make a difference here but for much of the same reasons, they won't. They will never take on an NFA case per se.
BUT the SC could arguably make a difference here but for much of the same reasons, they won't. They will never take on an NFA case per se.
OnTheRoad
NES Member
They sure don't waste any time hitting your credit card for the $200 though. Wonder how fast processing times would be if they couldn't cash out until the form was approved? Just sayin'.
I wish I had the money, I think the timing is right to file a case on the delay as a violation of 2a, 4a, and Bruin. Note that past attempts have been focused on the law itself, hoping to get the NFA ruled unconstitutional. My approach is more strategic, a one-bite-at-a-time approach. I'm not claiming the law is unconstitutional, we'll get to that later, I'm saying the law as applied is unconstitutional. So they don't need to throw out the law, just order them to fix the process. If they can't do that under the law then they have no choice but to drop it from the NFA.
This allows the court to rule in my favor without ruling the NFA unconstitutional.
If there are people who seriously think this is a good idea and are will to be part of it, as I am, and there is a lawyer willing to step up who is qualified, I wouldn't mind a discussion on how to raise the needed money.
If you are that qualified lawyer and think this is useless, reach out to me and we can talk about the holes in my approach, maybe there is way around them, maybe not.
This allows the court to rule in my favor without ruling the NFA unconstitutional.
If there are people who seriously think this is a good idea and are will to be part of it, as I am, and there is a lawyer willing to step up who is qualified, I wouldn't mind a discussion on how to raise the needed money.
If you are that qualified lawyer and think this is useless, reach out to me and we can talk about the holes in my approach, maybe there is way around them, maybe not.
Finally got my first form 4 approval. El Camino .22lr.
Submitted 11/12/22
Approved 9/29/23
No approval yet for my other two submitted around January 2023. Now I just need the time to go pick up the can and shoot it! I have a form 1 lower and 9” Nordic upper all ready for it.
Submitted 11/12/22
Approved 9/29/23
No approval yet for my other two submitted around January 2023. Now I just need the time to go pick up the can and shoot it! I have a form 1 lower and 9” Nordic upper all ready for it.
The government isn't "making it dumb", they are deliberately making it punitive by hindering the mandate of any reasonable time frame for processing submitted forms.
The whole process could be automated from start to finish if it weren't for government's willful obstruction of the process.
