Auto weapons stolen

[Pilgrim]

(OH) Thieves Burglarize Home, Take High-Powered Automatic Weapons
Thieves Burglarize Home, Take High-Powered Automatic Weapons

March 28, 2007 05:12 AM CDT


SPRINGFIELD TOWNSHIP -- An unusual gun theft in Springfield Township Tuesday morning is leaving local police on edge. Detectives say thieves stole two high-powered automatic weapons that were meant for war and can cause a lot of destruction, reports News 11's Lisa Rantala.

Most gun thefts involve rifles, shotguns, handguns. But in this case, the machine gun makes an AK-47 look like a BB gun, says the gun's owner.

Now deputies want the weapons off the street, fearing where, and with whom, they'll end up.

"It's for killing enemy personnel. The bigger the boom, the bigger the wound," said the gun owner about the stolen guns. And for this local gun owner, the M-60 was a prize in his collection.

He says it can shoot through homes, cars and up to 850 bullets in a minute. It took him eight months to obtain federal approval for the weapon, and he kept it in mint condition to increase its value.

"They're awesome weapons. They're war things, relics, trophies," the gun owner said.

At 2 a.m. Tuesday, he noticed the guns were gone. His apartment and trophy case had both been broken into.

"He came home and found his back door kicked in and had a gun safe that had been pried open," said Lucas County Detective Mark Woodruff.

"I'm worried for the police officers out on the street right now because if real psychos get ahold of these things..." the gun owner worried.

Along with the M-60, the thieves took his automatic Uzi with a silencer. "They'll probably be traded for drug money. So, you don't know who's going to end up with them," Detective Woodruff said.

Police are asking for your help to get these dangerous weapons off the streets. If you have any information about the theft, please call Crime Stopper at 419-255-1111. Or give detectives at the Lucas County Sheriff's Office a call at 419-213-4917.

http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=6287877

thieves stole two high-powered automatic weapons that were meant for war and can cause a lot of destruction

 

[Moga]

"He came home and found his back door kicked in and had a gun safe that had been pried open," said Lucas County Detective Mark Woodruff.

Along with the M-60, the thieves took his automatic Uzi with a silencer. "They'll probably be traded for drug money. So, you don't know who's going to end up with them," Detective Woodruff said.

Why take the cheap route with a stack-on security cabinet for a firearm collection that includes a M-60? To think that anyone secure class III weapons in anything less than a full fledged safe is simply beyond comprehension, IMO.

 

[matt1956]

yeah, I would think with that type of collection, for your own safety and that of your firearms, youd have an actual vault and have a high end alarm system as well.

he can surely kiss his lic and rest of his collection good bye now. In this state, the chief will yank that lic in no time.

Too bad he wasn't more secure about his "prize" collection.

 

[adweisbe]

The owner is as ignorant as the author. Show me a context for that quote that proves otherwise.

 

[Lynne]

"He came home and found his back door kicked in and had a gun safe that had been pried open," said Lucas County Detective Mark Woodruff.

WTF???

1) Why did he not have a buglar alarm? This says his safe was pried open, however:

His apartment and trophy case had both been broken into.

Trophy case and safe are 2 different things, so what the hell was he keeping them in? A safe can't be pried open, unless the bad guy was Superman.

 

[adweisbe]

It's okay. He had a trigger lock ;-)

 

[matt1956]

WTF???

1) Why did he not have a buglar alarm? This says his safe was pried open, however:


Trophy case and safe are 2 different things, so what the hell was he keeping them in? A safe can't be pried open, unless the bad guy was Superman.

thats what im saying... his "safe" was more likely a cheapo kmart special gun cabinet

and the m-60 was most likely in the case.

AND, for all we know, he could have damaged the "safe" on his own after realizing that he is going to be screwed for not properly securing his weapons.

 

[drgrant]

I think the paranoia is relatively overblown. They'll probably end up in
some drug den somewhere, if they dont catch the thieves doing something
else stupid first.

Now... this raises the question... someone with that kind of money tied up
in guns.... what the hell kind of security measures did he take, that it
was that trivial for them to make off with it? The police said he had
a trophy case and the safe was "pried open" but that could mean a whole
bunch of things. I'd wager a fair bet it was something low end, though.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

AND, for all we know, he could have damaged the "safe" on his own after realizing that he is going to be screwed for not properly securing his weapons.

Most states do not have the absurd "safe storage" laws that MA
does. Some of the free states do have laws WRT storage and
children, but thats usually about it. I don't believe that fed regs
address the storage of NFA items, other than that unauthorized
persons are not allowed unsupervised access/possession.

I'm not saying that the guy couldn't have provided more
security, not in the least... but I don't think making a law that says
he should really changes things all that much. How much do we
really want to hold people liable for the actions of criminals?


-Mike

 

[matt1956]

Didn't notice that this was not in MA

I still think that if you invest that much into a collection... youd do a bit more to ensure it is protected.

Alarm, dog, something

 

[LoginName]

Sometimes in cases like this, an alert will go out to the types of vendors that carry certain items that the average gun owner has no need for.

Hopefully the thieves(s) will get caught by doing something careless or stupid like ordering/buying linked 7.62 ammo.

(edit... 7.62x51, not .308)

 

[matt1956]

Sometimes in cases like this, an alert will go out to the types of vendors that carry certain items that the average gun owner has no need for.

Hopefully the thieves(s) will get caught by doing something careless or stupid like ordering/buying linked .308 ammo.

that would not suprise me.

 

[LoginName]

that would not suprise me.

It's a long shot, but a similar situation took place when someones NFA firearm was stolen minus the bolt. The thief was caught and the gun recovered when he tried to buy a replacement bolt.

 

[Ripach]

I for one would think that if I could afford an M-60 I could afford a safe and security system for my home. Hell all my guns put together couldn't equal his two MG's and I have a safe. There is no excuse for this, all this idiot did is make the average gun owner look bad. Let's hope they are recovered with no harm done to the innocent.

 

[Lynne]

I for one would think that if I could afford an M-60 I could afford a safe and security system for my home. Hell all my guns put together couldn't equal his two MG's and I have a safe. There is no excuse for this, all this idiot did is make the average gun owner look bad. Let's hope they are recovered with no harm done to the innocent.

+1

 

[Arioch]

WTF???

1) Why did he not have a buglar alarm? This says his safe was pried open, however:


Trophy case and safe are 2 different things, so what the hell was he keeping them in? A safe can't be pried open, unless the bad guy was Superman.

Does this mean that Superman has stolen Class 3 weapons?

 

[sksguns]

The reason why this guy is being labeled out here is because us "Mass" guiys have been conditioned to believe we are at fault if our stuff gets stolen. How much blame are we to give ourselves if our homes get broken into and our stuff stolen?

What happens when someone breaks in and, GOD FORBID, kidnappes a child? Are we responsible because we didn't lock the kid in a safe?

It sounds as if this gentleman took reasonable precaution. An alarm or a dog or an armed security agent would have been nice knowing what we know now.

But lets not pull a ZUMBO on the guy and thow him to the wolves like Zumbo did to EBG opwners. Lets put the blame where the blame belongs.....on the drug OD'd thugs that broke in and stole this man's firearms. They were locked in his house/apartment...that should be good enough.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I know that this will sound "foreign" to most of us, but there is a "real world" out there!

- Most states do NOT require that any guns be locked up!

- Most states it's perfectly legal to mount your guns on the wall in your home, no alarms, no locks!

- Oh yeah, it's also legal in many states for them to be fully loaded!

- Most gun owners probably have their long guns "out" in the open or stuffed in unlocked closets. Again, perfectly legal in most states.

- In most parts of the US, people keep their long guns in glass-fronted cases in their living rooms. Again perfectly legal!

Now with all that said:

- I've never liked the idea of "advertising" to a potential thief, so wall mounted guns look cool but I'd never do it. [Back in 1978-9 I paid a visit to an older gentleman who worked as an armorer at the Dan Wesson factory. He lived deep in the far reaches of Western MA and I could see many Winchesters mounted on the wall of his living room as I pulled up in front of his house. C-pher now owns much of what I picked up that day. ]

- When we were "house hunting" in the Metro-West area back in the hay-days of DEC, most houses we looked at couldn't have concealed a large safe (big enough for any long guns)!

- People living in apartment buildings don't have much ability to put a large safe in the apartment, or decent alarm systems.

So, what's been reported does not sound that far out of line for most parts of the real US of A!!

 

[Pilgrim]

In many parts of this country people still don't need to lock the doors of their house and aren't considered dumb or liable if they don't !

 

[Lynne]

So, what's been reported does not sound that far out of line for most parts of the real US of A!!

That's true Len. I just realized how "conditioned" I've become.

 

[Chris]

I do believe that NFA arms DO have some Federal storage requirements, but I don't know what those are offhand.

 

[TonyDedo]

Many of the posts on this thread surprise me! What happened to everyone sense of personal responsibility?

I strongly disagree with the arguments that the gun owner is not at fault. Based on the article we can assess the gun owner had no security or alarm system on his home, and stored his class III firearms in a pryable container (be it safe or trophy case). That seems pretty irresponsible for someone keeping an M60 in his apartment.

And second, just because there is no law requiring a gun owner to secure his firearms, doesn’t mean that he isn’t responsible for doing so.

Every time I ride my motorcycle, I wear a helmet, and I do so regardless of the law. Every time I drive my car I wear my seatbelt, and I do so regardless of the law. And every time I leave my home I make sure my firearms are secured – I have security laminate over the glass on my doors and windows, an alarm and security system, cameras on my office where my safe is, and a decent safe. And the whole setup cost me less than the AR I just bought (let alone a M60).

Granted that no security system is going to make your guns 100% theft proof, but anyone who can get through my system isn’t going to find anything worth their while to steal. However, the homies in the Brighton projects the next town over may be able to snatch my TV or car stereo, but they’re not getting a hold of my guns.

Having a firearm stolen is not the same as having a TV stolen. And having a class III M60 or an UZI stolen is not the same as someone stealing your daddy’s Winchester. And we as gun owners have the responsibility to take all reasonable measures to assure that our firearms are secure. Clearly the gun owner in this article did not.

-C

 

[sksguns]

Well, maybe when the thugs from the Brighton projects break in and steal your TV the insurance company will say that it's your fault because you didn't have anough locks on your doors so they are not paying.

That's a typical Menino mindset that the victim should have taken extreme caution so a bg won't steal your stuff. Lets forget about the laws that say its illegal to break in someone's house and steal that which doesn't belong to me.

A locked door should be enough. But now we have to be responsible for everyone elses actions.

So much for all those who died defending our now non-existant freedom.

 

[TonyDedo]

We don't have to be responsible for other people's actions, but we need to be responsible for protecting ourselves from other people's actions. Isn't that why most of us are gun owners to begin with???

 

[rscalzo]

What makes you think a safe cannot be pryed open. The sides, top or bottom can be smashed open with the proper tools.

Everyone is reading way too much into the article. No where does it state he had a Stackon yet that was mentioned. Some are stating that the trophy case contained the FA firearms. Maybe the thropy case contained a coin collection? Who knows. We all comment how the media screws up the facts, yet this owner has been labeled, by some, careless. Sometimes we are our own worst enemies. By our own comments, the firearm ownership should not be allowed...Sounds like a Democratic Fund Raiser cocktail party..

 

[sksguns]

I think a safe is a good idea. I have a couple myself. That's not this issue. The issue is that this guy got robbed and everyone wants to hang him out to dry. It doesn't matter what was stolen, although I think an M60 is a pretty significant item to be loose on the streets, what matters is that he is the victim and now may be punished and lose his firearms or maybe even face jail time. I hav no idea what is required in that state.

But lets blame the bad guys and hang them out to dry for once.

How would any of us like it if our stuff was stolen. I have a pretty decent safe and an alarm system and locks on all my doors and windows. Is that enough? Maybe, maybe not. I hope to god it is if I ever get broken into.

But ammo is more readily available for my guns vs. that 60. Can't just walk in anywhere and order up belt ammo. as someone mentioned. That could raise a flag whereas ask for a box of .45 at walmart and nobody even flinches.

So basically we are all just one b&e away from losing ourt licenses. That makes a lot of sense.

I suppose if I got broken into and my tv was stolen I shouldn't be allowed to buy another TV and it is toally my fault because I locked my house but my tv was on the tv stand because I liked the way it looked there and didn't want to stuff it into a closet.

 

[drgrant]

Many of the posts on this thread surprise me! What happened to everyone sense of personal responsibility?

I strongly disagree with the arguments that the gun owner is not at fault. Based on the article we can assess the gun owner had no security or alarm system on his home, and stored his class III firearms in a pryable container (be it safe or trophy case). That seems pretty irresponsible for someone keeping an M60 in his apartment.

I'll agree that he chose a dumb security method, but I still don't agree
that he should be held liable for the actions of a criminal!

And second, just because there is no law requiring a gun owner to secure his firearms, doesn’t mean that he isn’t responsible for doing so.

Yeah, but there is a line that must be drawn. Personally I draw this
line as only covering outward, blatant negligence.... EG, a guy who leaves
his revolver on the dashboard, loaded, with the window rolled
down is certainly negligent. Or a guy who left his loaded shotgun propped
up against a tree unattended (in a neighborhood where there are kids
running around). THAT is negligence. (not much different then those
dumbshits who leave their cars running unattended WITH CHILDREN IN
THEM!)

Every time I ride my motorcycle, I wear a helmet, and I do so regardless of the law. Every time I drive my car I wear my seatbelt, and I do so regardless of the law. And every time I leave my home I make sure my firearms are secured – I have security laminate over the glass on my doors and windows, an alarm and security system, cameras on my office where my safe is, and a decent safe. And the whole setup cost me less than the AR I just bought (let alone a M60).

IMO, bogus comparisons there. Personal safety (wrt seat belts and
the like) is not anything close to plane of "public safety". Further,
riding a motorcycle/driving a car are not constitutionally guaranteed
rights! The "negligence" were talking about here is similar to a
guy who sets up a bear trap in his sidewalk and the postman steps
in it... yeah, he's probably at fault. But if that same trap is in his
living room, and someone breaks into his house, and the thief steps
in it, is the owner of the trap really at fault? I don't think so!

I'm not disagreeing that locking up your guns is a "good thing" to do... but
I do disagree with this state's insinuation that we MUST do it at all
times. Regardless of that, I follow the law because it is the path of
least resistance in this state, and the penalty for not following it (if
caught) is more expensive of a risk than I would ever want to assume.

Granted that no security system is going to make your guns 100% theft proof, but anyone who can get through my system isn’t going to find anything worth their while to steal. However, the homies in the Brighton projects the next town over may be able to snatch my TV or car stereo, but they’re not getting a hold of my guns.

A lot of people say that, and then they come home to find their gun
"safe" missing. There was a story awhile back where a guy got a gun
safe jacked out of his apartment in lynn. One guy did it with a
hand truck. Should we hold the owner to the griddle because he lives
in an apartment? "Yes, throw that man in jail, he should have afforded
a better dwelling so that he could have secured his firearms better! off with his head!"

Edit: So what is the "appropriate" level of storage....? my guess is that if
the antis got their way, an alarm system, a TL-30 plate safe (which most
residental non-ground floors will not support the weight of) and enough liability
insurance to cover all the guns they own for like a million dollars or something.
The more we go around strutting that people have to keep
their guns locked up (in some manner thats considered "acceptable" it only
emboldens and endorses the antis.. "even gun owners think that we should
have these laws." is what they will say next. Course I'd love to see the
look on the trap on sunday elmer fudd type's face as he is told that he needs
safe that weighs over a ton and liability insurance to own his 2 or 3 O/U
shotguns. I digress....

Having a firearm stolen is not the same as having a TV stolen. And having a class III M60 or an UZI stolen is not the same as someone stealing your daddy’s Winchester. And we as gun owners have the responsibility to take all reasonable measures to assure that our firearms are secure. Clearly the gun owner in this article did not.

I guess you buy into the hype then, that a machinegun, SBR, SBS, etc,
is somehow inherently more dangerous than "daddy's winchester".
just because some pants wetting politicians wrote a law espousing that
view in 1934 does not make it so.

Further, there are any number of dangerous objects in ones household
which could be used to kill or injure other people. Are we going to
send people to jail because of the knives they have in their kitchen? What
if a thief steals a large crowbar, or little johnny's baseball bat, and bludgeons
a neighbor to death with it... is the owner of those objects criminally
liable?

Don't get me wrong here- I do think his storage was lax (that is, to
my personal standard... in terms of protecting an investment that is
as significant as an MG) but even insinuating that he should be held
responsible for any indirect issues as a result of the theft is a bit
absurd.

-Mike

 

[MassMark]

I think if anything, the guy should be prosecuted for being an idiot....
If I have a $25,000.00 M-60, I would have it under such tight security, that stealing it would take monumental effort - with no reward. Strangely enough, I lived in NE Ohio years ago and I had several C3's. They were not my home defense weapons and for a time I lived in an apartment, with only a locked closet, (no safe). However, anyone stealing them would have to have done the following: Pulled the door, dug through my dirty laundry to find where they were, (eww), and then cut through a thick Kawasaki ZX900A2 Ninja motorcycle chain lock lag-bolted to the floor. Then, once that operation was complete, they would have to figure out where in my home the firing pins, bolts and magazines were.

I did much the same thing when I moved back home to Massachusetts. All my firearms were disassembled and essential fire control parts were on my person. I did it for no other reason than my own piece of mind. I don't think this guy should be strung up for being lax and unless they took a case or two of linked ammo, I'm not very afraid for public safety. My guess is these lunkheads will try and pawn them off, or trade em for a bag of crank, unless someone is smart enough to part them out. In any case, getting caught with NFA is bad juju and will make the punishment for their other crimes much worse.

 

[Coyote33]

Well, maybe when the thugs from the Brighton projects break in and steal your TV the insurance company will say that it's your fault because you didn't have anough locks on your doors so they are not paying.

That's a typical Menino mindset that the victim should have taken extreme caution so a bg won't steal your stuff. Lets forget about the laws that say its illegal to break in someone's house and steal that ...

A locked door should be enough. But now we have to be responsible for everyone elses actions. ...

A DOOR should be enough.

...Edit: So what is the "appropriate" level of storage....? my guess is that if the antis got their way, an alarm system, a TL-30 plate safe (which most residental non-ground floors will not support the weight of) and enough liability insurance to cover all the guns they own for like a million dollars or something.
The more we go around strutting that people have to keep their guns locked up (in some manner thats considered "acceptable" it only emboldens and endorses the antis.. "even gun owners think that we should
have these laws." is what they will say next.
...
Further, there are any number of dangerous objects in ones household
which could be used to kill or injure other people. Are we going to
send people to jail because of the knives they have in their kitchen? What
if a thief steals a large crowbar, or little johnny's baseball bat, and bludgeons
a neighbor to death with it... is the owner of those objects criminally
liable?

Don't get me wrong here- I do think his storage was lax (that is, to
my personal standard... in terms of protecting an investment that is
as significant as an MG) but even insinuating that he should be held
responsible for any indirect issues as a result of the theft is a bit
absurd.

Good points. Also, what if someone siphons gas from your car and they go up in flames somehow? Are you responsible for not better securing your gas tank?

 

[Pilgrim]

Yup the Ma mindset is that if it's in your house, and it's stolen, it's your fault.

Same with a car, don't lock the door, someone gets in and hot wires it, it's your fault.

Who determines how many doors and locks must something be behind before it's 'secure'.

The way I see it, if it's in my house and my front and back doors are locked, anything that disappears is someone else's fault for violating MY home.