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Belchertown gunmaker pleads guilty to federal firearm violations
- Thread starter Bodhisattva
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groundscrapers
NES Member
1000% I don't know what he was thinking but if you are going to get out on social media trying to flex on people with your guns you better damn well have your ducks in a row t's and i's and all of that. I don't know if I can put all the blame on him because when you get your ffl they give you the crash course into what is legal but its like they introduced you to the very tip of the iceberg so he could have just been very ill informed.
groundscrapers
NES Member
yea I doubt it was the money. There had to have been something else that rustled some jimmies and the wrath was brought down on him.
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Perhaps he used the logic so common on NES - declare himself an expert on gun laws; reason out what the laws mean; and consider his knowledge in the area above anyone who would imply his 07 did not make him exempt from all the laws he was violating.
We even have someone on the forum who thinks that it is legal to possess a MG in MA with an 07+SOt but no MA MGL license.
We even have someone on the forum who thinks that it is legal to possess a MG in MA with an 07+SOt but no MA MGL license.
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JDL
NES Member
With an 07 and SOT you can manufacture a machine guns, how
ever you must pay the tax and file paperwork with NFA ATF and to do this the gun needs a ser. #. Also the state requires that you have a green card if you plan to leave your 07 manufacturing facility with the machine gun. You can not transport a machine gun in MA. unless you have a green card. Just like you can not carry on your FFL you still need a LTC.
ever you must pay the tax and file paperwork with NFA ATF and to do this the gun needs a ser. #. Also the state requires that you have a green card if you plan to leave your 07 manufacturing facility with the machine gun. You can not transport a machine gun in MA. unless you have a green card. Just like you can not carry on your FFL you still need a LTC.
Any machine gun manufactured or imported after 5/19/86. There are pre samples (imported after 1968 but before 5/19/86, transferrable machine guns (not imported after 1968 but registered with .gov before 5/19/86), and post samples (manufactured or imported after 5/19/86).
So in essence, this guy got jammed up for no serial numbers on machine guns which is required as an FFL even if not selling, selling (as a dealer..) Glocks...and then illegal transfers which most would know is a no no..?
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A key difference is that a MG dealer can keep a pre sample in his/her personal collection upon surrender of the FFL, whereas a post sample must be transferred to another dealer, LE agency, or forfeited to the crown.
Price(Pre 86) > price (pre 86 sample) > price(post 86 sample) > price (post 86 non-sample)
In order to receive a post 86 sample from another SOT dealer, the 07 must have an LE agency "demo request letter" ... which few, if any, 07s can get.
Post 1986 Dealer Sample.
groundscrapers
NES Member
Ill own that someone but my question is who would carry the MGL license for the corporation to make post samples?
groundscrapers
NES Member
demo letter is for transferring, the 07/02 could build a post 86 machine gun for any number of legal reasons.
groundscrapers
NES Member
and to add to that since a MGL only issues to a Bonafied Collector or a firearm instructor certified by the municipal police training committee , what do you put on an application?
groundscrapers
NES Member
It absolutely would, would every employee on the floor at troy have to be on 03 and a MGL licensee to posses a machine gun is what I was getting at.
Mesatchornug
NES Member
There's a description above that does well to explain that the MG license is needed to transport off the premises. Employees are (in my understanding) effectively treated as supervised by the FFL license holder.
one-eyed Jack
Manufacturer
Can be done. I acquired the Thompson and Grease Gun post samples with letters from a police detective who I did a big favor for many years ago. His dep't had an M16 on a Form 5. I transferred it out to me and then to him. He was very happy with the free M16. I was happy too, since the Tommy cost me $500 ad the GG $200. Long time ago, not so easy now. Jack.
Not entirely true, they can buy post samples from another 07/SOT that is exiting the business as well.
This is a good question because its pretty obvious theres gaps in the laws there. Unless there's always been an "implied thing" that manufacturers were
exempt somehow.
There is lots of stupidity in MGL that ends up being functionally silent, though. Like for example the competition exemption, according to Guida, is "invalid as
written" using deductive reasoning but I've not seen an incident involving that yet. Of course people who avail themselves of such exemptions tend to keep their
noses clean while in transit.
No idea about any of this - but when I lived out there I knew these guys, and they were good dudes. At one point if I recall they did have an 07 with an SOT. Haven’t been in touch with them for years.
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This is also why many of the machine gun rental places are 07+SOTs holders. The only way a dealer can get MGs now is (a) Pre 86 $$$$ (think $20K+ for an M16); (b) Post 86 sample w/LEO demo request,(c) Pre-86 dealer sample or (d) Manufacture a MG. SOTs do not require documented LE interest to manufacture a new one, but can only transfer the new inventory to other govt agencies or 07 SOTs (and then only if they have a demo request).
A "catch" is that if the 07 (with or without SOT) is not manufacturing solely for "research purposes", it must obtain ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulation) registration at $2250 per year (minimum, more if you do actual exporting beyond a certain level). The research exemption is a tricky one, so 07s should tread carefully if relying on this.
Many dealers fabricate their own non-existent "NES style exemption by declaration" to the ITAR requirement, and proceed as if 07+SOT is enough to make new MGs. They do so at their own risk and peril, despite the (to date) dearth of prosecutions of non-exporters failing to get at least Tier 1 ITAR registration. This is enabled by the BATFE not verifying ITAR registration as part of the process of processing an 07 application.
It does appear there is a temporary reduction of the fee to $500/year as part of the federal Covid response. I'm surprised the media has not yet used this for an attack on Trump.
International Traffic in Arms Regulations: Temporary Reduction in Certain Registration Fees
The Department of State is making a temporary change in the Tier I and Tier II and new registrant payment guidelines on the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC) website at www.pmddtc.state.gov. These guidelines outline the registration fees charged to persons who engage in the United...
www.federalregister.gov
Time for responses from 07s explaining why the law does not require them to have ITAR registration.
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groundscrapers
NES Member
Rob said posses, not carry off premises.
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After the tragedy at the Westfield MG shoot, the state clarified that there is no exemption allowing the temporary non-handling of MGs by non-MA MG license holders like there is for handguns, shotguns and rifles.
Federal gun laws only override state laws in the case of FOPA86. In other cases federal gun laws provide exemptions to state law only if such is codified in state law. For example, and FFL does not exempt one from the AW ban in MA, but a MA dealer's license does.
Almost impossible, not impossible.
Congratulations. If someone offered me a prize for guessing which person on NES pulled it off, I would have won.
groundscrapers
NES Member
You forgot the pre-samples which really hurt the soul since they could be worth a ton had they been registered. If only we had a republican in office back then to veto this.This is also why many of the machine gun rental places are 07+SOTs holders. The only way a dealer can get MGs now is (a) Pre 86 $$$$ (think $20K+ for an M16); (b) Post 86 sample w/LEO demo request or (c) Manufacture a MG. SOTs do not require documented LE interest to manufacture a new one, but can only transfer the new inventory to other govt agencies of 07 SOTs (and then only if they have a demo request).
