Can a stripped receiver be considered a C&R firearm?

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Deleted member 67409

I recently purchased a stripped Winchester Model 1897 receiver. The seller stated that he would not ship to a 03. Didn't matter to me because I let mine lapse. Now, I'm seeing other sellers for other stripped receivers also refusing to ship stripped receivers to 03s. One states that stripped receivers are not C&R-eligible "per ATF." Anyone got any confirmation or is this bull?
 
Firearms must be in original config as far as I recall. Ergo, a stripped receiver would not work.
 
I remember from back in the 1990s that BATFE ruled that a stripped receiver can not be C&R. I can't point you to anything as a reference but I do remember reading that info from BATFE back then.
 
Found the answer:

C&R Vs FFL Info.

What firearms are considered to be curio and relic firearms? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

The first link contains a broken link to atf.gov, so I took a look and ATF requires that a firearm be "complete, [and] assembled" to be C&R eligible. Though, who knows what the landscape will look like in a few decades when someone has a sold-as-a-receiver stripped receiver, like say a C&R Poverty Pony lower or a DSA SA58 upper that was sold as a stripped receiver and never as a complete, assembled, functional firearm.

ATF has recognized only complete, assembled firearms as curios or relics.
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Len-2A Training said:
I remember from back in the 1990s that BATFE ruled that a stripped receiver can not be C&R. I can't point you to anything as a reference but I do remember reading that info from BATFE back then.
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ATF Ruling 85-10, which discusses the importation of military C&R firearms, notes that they must be in original configuration and adds that a receiver is not a C&R item
 
A stripped receiver or a barreled receiver is not C&R. It does have to be in its "original configuration" which I take to mean a rifle has to still be a rifle and not an SBR or pistol, but that doesn't mean original parts necessarily. Some sporterization is ok but it has to be a complete firearm. I believe though if you had say a Garand that was complete but missing the trigger group, it would still be ok for a C&R. But not if it was missing the stock
 
jpm said:
A stripped receiver or a barreled receiver is not C&R. It does have to be in its "original configuration" which I take to mean a rifle has to still be a rifle and not an SBR or pistol, but that doesn't mean original parts necessarily. Some sporterization is ok but it has to be a complete firearm. I believe though if you had say a Garand that was complete but missing the trigger group, it would still be ok for a C&R. But not if it was missing the stock
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True. My above comment was only for fun. Jack.
 
Another thing to add
if the seller says no theres no law that matters anyhow. They are not going to sell. Went through this with many CR dealers. Their policy was there policy so no sales to MA period .
 
radioman said:
I thought a firearm built before 1900 was not a firearm?
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Close. In MA its before 1900 but federally its before 1899. I don't get the reasoning there.

A couple of years I bought a model 1884 trapdoor at a local shop here in MA and walked out the door with just a cash register receipt and the gun. It felt weird lol.
 
radioman said:
I thought a firearm built before 1900 was not a firearm?
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"Winchester 1897" was the model number. Not a Winchester made in 1897. The receiver I bought was from 1939. I was examining Remington 1900 (as in, "Model 1900", not "made in 1900") receivers yesterday and noticed the same issue.

Edit: the OP said "Model 1897", not sure why you're thinking antiques.
 
Another screwy thing about MA gun laws: If you have an antique gun that uses modern ammunition you still have to abide by storage and transportation laws. For example my 1880’s Belgian sxs 10 gauge shotgun can’t be hung above the mantle without a trigger lock if I’m fully complying with our ridiculous laws.
 
45collector said:
Another screwy thing about MA gun laws: If you have an antique gun that uses modern ammunition you still have to abide by storage and transportation laws. For example my 1880’s Belgian sxs 10 gauge shotgun can’t be hung above the mantle without a trigger lock if I’m fully complying with our ridiculous laws.
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Didn't know that one, I was going to do the same with a Trapdoor with no trigger lock. Good to know
 
I’d have to track down the language in the law but it may actually specify that it would need a trigger lock if it takes modern ammunition that is “readily available”. Now I highly doubt you will find ammo for a trapdoor at your LGS but 10g shotguns are still plentiful and in use by waterfowl hunters especially. If you put a round of modern 10g smokeless through an old Damascus barreled sxs like mine, the gun would KB. The state would still consider that gun capable of firing modern ammunition though.
 
45-70 is pretty much everywhere though most of it is not suitable for a Trapdoor, it will fit and fire (once)
 
45collector said:
Another screwy thing about MA gun laws: If you have an antique gun that uses modern ammunition you still have to abide by storage and transportation laws. For example my 1880’s Belgian sxs 10 gauge shotgun can’t be hung above the mantle without a trigger lock if I’m fully complying with our ridiculous laws.
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Remove a couple of springs, or the firing pin. Something that no one can see but prevents the firearm from working.

I am sure in MA that is still illegal.

Question, I have a friend that tried to buy some pre 1898 Chilean Mausers that were sporterized and no one would sell to him as an antique. Is this like the C&R issue mentioned above, if it was altered the gun is no longer an antique?
 
Broccoli Iglesias said:
Question, I have a friend that tried to buy some pre 1898 Chilean Mausers that were sporterized and no one would sell to him as an antique. Is this like the C&R issue mentioned above, if it was altered the gun is no longer an antique?
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Quoted for emphasis and to bring the thread back on-topic.

ATF's website quotes 18 USC 921(A)(16), which defines an antique as a firearm (in ATF-speak, this means a functional gun, see post no. 9) made in or before 1898. "In or before" thus includes the year of 1898, meaning any functional gun made prior to 12/31/1898. There's also the exemptions for modern replicas and muzzle loaders, but that's not relevant here.

Firearms - Guides - Importation & Verification of Firearms, Ammunition - Gun Control Act Definitions - Antique Firearm | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Edit: I could see where there would be ambiguity in the phrase "manufactured in", because with a sporter, the gun was modified after. But the actual firearm itself was manufactured in 1898 or before. Sporterizing a gun isn't manufacturing a gun, its modification.

Under Federal law, a functional gun with an 1898 receiver would be an antique firearm. IANAL, do your own homework, etc., etc., etc.
 
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