Fatal Shooting in Worcester by Westborough LTC holder UPDATE: Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter! 4-7 Year Sentence with 77 Days Credit.

[Admin]

I've told both of my driving age children, one is a Marine, if you don't want to end up dead, do not road rage. It's a pretty simple concept.

Before you closet progressives attack me, I'm not saying anyone deserves to be dead. What I am saying is you have NO idea who you are dealing with or what they are capable of, putting yourself face to face with a complete stranger who probably wants to inflict harm is a terrible idea.

Although it's probably Darwin's way of thinning the non-self preservation herd.

 

[moojpg2]

Shit like this is why we keep a mk3 stream spray can of sabre red or fox labs pepper spray in both front doors of both of our vehicles. Non lethal option's are necessary nowadays, especially in this state and the number of a**h***s on the road, I've had people follow me into parking lots and rage on me over things I supposedly did to them that I wasn't even aware of lol

 

[mac1911]

I call bullshit on breaking the window with his hand. Defense Atty should bring in the same window (from another car) and ask the Prosecutor or cops testifying, to demonstrate breaking it with their hand! Would be another "If the glove doesn't fit" moment.

Maybe he has a diamond ring on.
Yup side windows are tough as hell.

 

[Tom F.]

I heard he had a piece of pipe or tire iron.

 

[Spartan65]

I've told both of my driving age children, one is a Marine, if you don't want to end up dead, do not road rage. It's a pretty simple concept.

Before you closet progressives attack me, I'm not saying anyone deserves to be dead. What I am saying is you have NO idea who you are dealing with or what they are capable of, putting yourself face to face with a complete stranger who probably wants to inflict harm is a terrible idea.

Although it's probably Darwin's way of thinning the non-self preservation herd.

I have been road raged to a scary extent before. I had a guy follow me and get out of the car to try to fight me. I just put the car back in gear and left calmly. Thinking to myself - this guy has no idea that I am legally carrying- what a damn fool! Road rage is extremely scary.

 

[Hoover]

Have you ever noticed how dangerous the QT stations in Tulsa are? I joke that every homicide in Tulsa somehow involves a QT. Whether it's where the dirtbag goes to try to get money out of the victims bank, the victim bought something just before he was murdered, or even someone bought something at the QT that ends up putting them at the scene.

A friend of mine was a lawyer for over 40 years. He did criminal, civil, expert witness, and started out fresh out of law school working for the US Attorney's office in Denver.

He said of all of the reality TV shows, "The First 48" was by far the only one that was realistic.

He was a big fan of STFU when the police want to talk with you.

I miss that cranky old bastard.

And QT has REALLY good cams and lots of them. The video fro Qts are almost movie quality so there’s no guessing involved. 3 specifically I remember were the guy with the shotgun who killed a woman point blank over a cell phone, the guy in an SUV who shot a guy in the head because he was wearing blood gang colors and wasn’t a blood and the little Asian tough guy who want3d to get back and someone who robbed him but instead of getting him, he killed his innocent gf by shooting into moving car. That one the geniuses did the gun for cash exchange right in front of QTs cams.

Atlanta has a lot of cams too. I remember one there were a construction worker didn’t want to pay his hooker for the $15 bj he just received so he beat her up and shot her which was caught on a subway camera. Dude got life no parole because he wouldn’t pay the hooker $15.

One thing that’s fairly consistent in most of the murders, there are a decent number of murderers who will kill over disrespect, $50 in weed, I remember one Tulsa episode were they said “it’s always about weed, always”

Atlanta detectives are good but Tulsa are fantastic, they are really good. Don’t murder in tulsa, they’ll get you. Some of the older episodes, Cleveland detectives are not great and the prison time for murder in Cleveland is unbelievably light even for intentional homicides. Dallas cops were pretty good too

 

[LakeTrout]

So why are the cops publicly asking anyone with video of it to come forward?

You may be onto something. But There is much more to the story than what one or two cameras can provide. Often things are missed. The more video the more complete the story is. It may be that there isn’t video from the store. But it may also be that there is, but the angle is wrong, the video is blurry, the camera didn’t catch the whole event, etc.

 

[Hoover]

I've told both of my driving age children, one is a Marine, if you don't want to end up dead, do not road rage. It's a pretty simple concept.

Before you closet progressives attack me, I'm not saying anyone deserves to be dead. What I am saying is you have NO idea who you are dealing with or what they are capable of, putting yourself face to face with a complete stranger who probably wants to inflict harm is a terrible idea.

Although it's probably Darwin's way of thinning the non-self preservation herd.

Odin Lloyd was Hernandez’s third murder in Massachusetts, that was rumored to be because Lloyd either disrespected Hernandez in some way or was telling people he was gay.

The first and second murders were in Boston after leaving a bar, he killed two people by pulling up next to them and shooting them and wounding a 3rd guy. What set Hernandez off was a spilled drink in a club. He had just signed a 4 yr 40 mil contract and he would kill over a spilled drink.

Some would kill for a $1 mil armored truck robbery and some would kill for $50 at 2am from a gas station. There was one in Massachusetts, I think canton, where a teen killed another because he want3d to know what it felt like to kill someone. You knew know what’s in someone mind or heart

 

[Garys]

I think one of the detectives, or maybe the Tulsa Sgt that retired a few years ago said that they had an 83% or so clearance rate.

The Cleveland guys were old school homicide cops, but the technology has changed since those episodes.

Do you remember the Mobile murder case from earlier this year where the guy was shot because he yelled at the guy for banging his girlfriend in the men's room? The victim worked for my son in Mobile. My son that he was really good guy and not any sort of dirt bag at all.

And QT has REALLY good cams and lots of them. The video fro Qts are almost movie quality so there’s no guessing involved. 3 specifically I remember were the guy with the shotgun who killed a woman point blank over a cell phone, the guy in an SUV who shot a guy in the head because he was wearing blood gang colors and wasn’t a blood and the little Asian tough guy who want3d to get back and someone who robbed him but instead of getting him, he killed his innocent gf by shooting into moving car. That one the geniuses did the gun for cash exchange right in front of QTs cams.

Atlanta has a lot of cams too. I remember one there were a construction worker didn’t want to pay his hooker for the $15 bj he just received so he beat her up and shot her which was caught on a subway camera. Dude got life no parole because he wouldn’t pay the hooker $15.

One thing that’s fairly consistent in most of the murders, there are a decent number of murderers who will kill over disrespect, $50 in weed, I remember one Tulsa episode were they said “it’s always about weed, always”

Atlanta detectives are good but Tulsa are fantastic, they are really good. Don’t murder in tulsa, they’ll get you. Some of the older episodes, Cleveland detectives are not great and the prison time for murder in Cleveland is unbelievably light even for intentional homicides. Dallas cops were pretty good too

 

[CStirling8011]

Footage from the scene


View: https://youtu.be/Mu4F7Pd4v24

 

[dingbat]

A lot of states don’t have the same standards for a car as they do a home. Also, castle doctrine doesn’t make any shooting a good shoot inside a home in most states, there still needs to be a threat, proportional force used, imminent harm, etc. if a plumber was told I’ll leave the back door open, go in that was to fix the kitchen sink. And the plumber wen to the wrong townhouse/house/apartment Most states wouldn’t allow you to shoot the plumber who made a mistake. Now if the person broke a window to get in, that eliminates the mistake type entry.

Every situation is so different and fact dependent. It’s impossible to generalize because the slightest change in facts can change the lawfulness of an event.

Who said anything about it making any shoot a good shoot?
I said it satisfies 2 of the 4 requirements for justified self defense when there is forcible entry.
You told the guy who speculated about how things might play out in a free state with castle doctrine that extends to your car, “Castle doctrine just mean there isn’t a duty to,retreat, it doesn’t change any other requirement for self defense immunity.”
In NC, a free(ish) state where castle doctrine extends to your car, that’s just not true, in fact, duty to retreat has nothing to do with our castle doctrine whatsoever. There is no duty to retreat anywhere in NC providing it’s not illegal for you to be there in the first place.

 

[Hoover]

I think one of the detectives, or maybe the Tulsa Sgt that retired a few years ago said that they had an 83% or so clearance rate.

The Cleveland guys were old school homicide cops, but the technology has changed since those episodes.

Do you remember the Mobile murder case from earlier this year where the guy was shot because he yelled at the guy for banging his girlfriend in the men's room? The victim worked for my son in Mobile. My son that he was really good guy and not any sort of dirt bag at all.

I don’t remember that one in mobile offhand but I probably saw it. Do you remember the one from a few years ago in mobile where the guy was kicked out of the bar then went back to his car, grabbed a gun, shot the bouncer at very close range and stood over him pumping more rounds. As clear of an intentional homicide as possible, facing life no parole. He got bail and was re arrested on DUI where he was going 131 mph. In mass with 1st degree murder, I’ve never seen anyone offered bail.

Murder suspect clocked doing 131 mph during DUI arrest

An Alabama State Trooper clocked Dewayne Wheat, 35, out on bond on a murder charge in Mobile, doing 131.6 miles per hour on Interstate 10 on Labor Day afternoon.

www.al.com

Cleveland was so ghetto. Their offices were from 1970, the probably still have dial up internet connection lol. One i remember in Cleveland were 4 or 5 teens who went from store to store robbing places and they blew a few people away in cold blood. I think the most culpable only got 22 years and some got 11 or so. It was a intentional a murder as possible plus all the robbery charges and they go a fraction of what they’d get in Massachusetts.

I bet Cleveland is still similar now, it looks like a VERY underfunded police department. Those cops look like they’re overworked and get paid less than a Wendy’s fry cook.

Another pretty good show is accused, guilty or innocent. It follows a person charged from the post arrest through the trial. Absurd what some prosecutors do to innocent people or people with no record who made a bad decision in a difficult situation. There’s one from Oklahoma in that where they put an old guy in prison for killing a violent meth head who was a clear threat to the guy and the cops wouldn’t do a thing with numerous calls to 911 over months.

 

[drgrant]

Cleveland was so ghetto. Their offices were from 1970, the probably still have dial up internet connection lol. One i remember in Cleveland were 4 or 5 teens who went from store to store robbing places and they blew a few people away in cold blood. I think the most culpable only got 22 years and some got 11 or so. It was a intentional a murder as possible plus all the robbery charges and they go a fraction of what they’d get in Massachusetts.

I bet Cleveland is still similar now, it looks like a VERY underfunded police department. Those cops look like they’re overworked and get paid less than a Wendy’s fry cook.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY


thx to @Dench from 100 yrs ago for finding this unforgettible top 10 gem....

 

[Hoover]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY


thx to @Dench from 100 yrs ago for finding this unforgettible top 10 gem....

One indicator I use to estimate how shitty a city may be is to look at their population by decade. I believe Detroit was the 3rd largest city in the US in the 1950s with a population of 1.9 million, it’s been dropping since and now is 632k. That means a lot a vacate homes and apartments and an overall downward spiral it’s hard for a place to recover from. The most educated, the best skilled labor, etc are the most likely to have left. Some industry and jobs left and those workers and the city declined which precipitated more businesses to close and/or move with those workers and the spiral continues.

Baltimore almost a million people in 1950, now under 600k, buffalo 580k in 1950, now 276k,

Cleveland was 914k in 1950, now 367k. They were once the 5th largest city in the country, now they’re in 56th. All of these places continue to lose population each decade so they haven’t hit bottom. I believe St. Louis, Chicago, etc have similar population treads.

I’ve never been but a friend was in buffalo for a wedding and he said he’d never been to a bigger dump. He said it was a third world country, far worse than anything in Massachusetts.

 

[headednorth]

One indicator I use to estimate how shitty a city may be is to look at their population by decade. I believe Detroit was the 3rd largest city in the US in the 1950s with a population of 1.9 million, it’s been dropping since and now is 632k. That means a lot a vacate homes and apartments and an overall downward spiral it’s hard for a place to recover from. The most educated, the best skilled labor, etc are the most likely to have left. Some industry and jobs left and those workers and the city declined which precipitated more businesses to close and/or move with those workers and the spiral continues.

Baltimore almost a million people in 1950, now under 600k, buffalo 580k in 1950, now 276k,

Cleveland was 914k in 1950, now 367k. They were once the 5th largest city in the country, now they’re in 56th. All of these places continue to lose population each decade so they haven’t hit bottom. I believe St. Louis, Chicago, etc have similar population treads.

I’ve never been but a friend was in buffalo for a wedding and he said he’d never been to a bigger dump. He said it was a third world country, far worse than anything in Massachusetts.

I can think of another more reliable indicator

 

[Hoover]

I can think of another more reliable indicator

I left that out but it’s something that definitely seems to have a correlation. Most likely because they’re at the lower end income wise and don’t have as much ability to leave

 

[Garys]

The only time I really saw much of Cleveland was in 1972 and it looked like crap then.

I don’t remember that one in mobile offhand but I probably saw it. Do you remember the one from a few years ago in mobile where the guy was kicked out of the bar then went back to his car, grabbed a gun, shot the bouncer at very close range and stood over him pumping more rounds. As clear of an intentional homicide as possible, facing life no parole. He got bail and was re arrested on DUI where he was going 131 mph. In mass with 1st degree murder, I’ve never seen anyone offered bail.

Murder suspect clocked doing 131 mph during DUI arrest

An Alabama State Trooper clocked Dewayne Wheat, 35, out on bond on a murder charge in Mobile, doing 131.6 miles per hour on Interstate 10 on Labor Day afternoon.

www.al.com

Cleveland was so ghetto. Their offices were from 1970, the probably still have dial up internet connection lol. One i remember in Cleveland were 4 or 5 teens who went from store to store robbing places and they blew a few people away in cold blood. I think the most culpable only got 22 years and some got 11 or so. It was a intentional a murder as possible plus all the robbery charges and they go a fraction of what they’d get in Massachusetts.

I bet Cleveland is still similar now, it looks like a VERY underfunded police department. Those cops look like they’re overworked and get paid less than a Wendy’s fry cook.

Another pretty good show is accused, guilty or innocent. It follows a person charged from the post arrest through the trial. Absurd what some prosecutors do to innocent people or people with no record who made a bad decision in a difficult situation. There’s one from Oklahoma in that where they put an old guy in prison for killing a violent meth head who was a clear threat to the guy and the cops wouldn’t do a thing with numerous calls to 911 over months.

 

[sieveboy]

I’d bet at inner city non chain owed gas station, convenience stores, small business, etc at least 1/2 of the systems are not working at all or have a number of cams not working. Some may have working showing live video but not recording too. A lot of business don’t make much profit in so so areas so they look to save money any way they can

This. Hell, these days, about 25% of the time the gas pump I choose doesn’t work, and most times the receipt paper is out.

 

[Nick Fury]

Break out the reading glasses, morning coffee and give this thread a read.

NH road rage shooting

I'm not even going to say it. NH road rage incident leads to shooting "GRAFTON, N.H. (WCAX) A road rage incident ended in a shooting in Grafton, New Hampshire, Monday afternoon. It happened on Route 4 near Lower Meadow Road. Police say Joseph Brown, 38, and a 46-year-old driver were both...

www.northeastshooters.com

That thread should be a why you don’t road rage sticky. It’s got it all. Bizarre twists and turns. The innocent end up guilty. Biggest single “Beware of Rager” NES case law there is…

 

[milktree]

I can think of another more reliable indicator

I left that out but it’s something that definitely seems to have a correlation. Most likely because they’re at the lower end income wise and don’t have as much ability to leave

I’m sure you’re both talking about the density of “discount” stores with the word “dollar” in their name, right?

Like Dollar General, Family Dollar, Dollar Tree.

 

[Hoover]

I’m sure you’re both talking about the density of “discount” stores with the word “dollar” in their name, right?

Like Dollar General, Family Dollar, Dollar Tree.

The density of liquor stores seems to have a correlation, a the density of convenience stores or small markets who have huges signs in the window “WE ACCEPT EBT”.

You always know a great area too when the residences have bars on the windows, AC condensers have a cage around them. So many tells you shouldn’t be in an area.

 

[headednorth]

The density of liquor stores seems to have a correlation, a the density of convenience stores or small markets who have huges signs in the window “WE ACCEPT EBT”.

You always know a great area too when the residences have bars on the windows, AC condensers have a cage around them. So many tells you shouldn’t be in an area.

Hundreds of satellite dishes hanging off buildings, plastic bags in trees, missing screens, "curtains" with a knot tied in the middle, flags as curtains, expensive cars...

 

[Jel20016]

What I’ve learned and confirmed:

1) don’t carry in this state; get pepper spray instead if you need personal protection

2) you have a duty to retreat from a violent attacker in this state

3) don’t talk to the police / they will use state power against you even if you think you’re defending yourself

4) stay away from Worcester

5) avoid altercations with strangers

question - do you have a duty to retreat even in your own home?

 

[headednorth]

What I’ve learned and confirmed:

1) don’t carry in this state; get pepper spray instead if you need personal protection

2) you have a duty to retreat from a violent attacker in this state

3) don’t talk to the police / they will use state power against you even if you think you’re defending yourself

4) stay away from Worcester

5) avoid altercations with strangers

question - do you have a duty to retreat even in your own home?

1)I wouldn't say don't carry, just be sure that if you do draw, it's because you're in danger of losing your life or grave bodily injury.
2) if possible, yes
3) that's a good policy
4) cities in general suck, but for the most part use your brain and you should be 99% ok. With that said, better to be in the burbs and or the country than a city.
5) always the smart thing to do whenever possible.

No duty to retreat inside your home in MA but you'll still need to justify deadly force

 

[MAGA99]

I heard he had a piece of pipe or tire iron.

Good shoot

 

[MAGA99]

What I’ve learned and confirmed:

1) don’t carry in this state; get pepper spray instead if you need personal protection

2) you have a duty to retreat from a violent attacker in this state

3) don’t talk to the police / they will use state power against you even if you think you’re defending yourself

4) stay away from Worcester

5) avoid altercations with strangers

question - do you have a duty to retreat even in your own home?

Shoot and scoot!

 

[Ron Jablonski]

I would have guessed Honey Farms would have video cameras outside the premises

They might, doesn't mean they're running. It happens all the time.

 

[hunt4riches]

I've told both of my driving age children, one is a Marine, if you don't want to end up dead, do not road rage. It's a pretty simple concept.

Before you closet progressives attack me, I'm not saying anyone deserves to be dead. What I am saying is you have NO idea who you are dealing with or what they are capable of, putting yourself face to face with a complete stranger who probably wants to inflict harm is a terrible idea.

Although it's probably Darwin's way of thinning the non-self preservation herd.

I have more than once told my wife to knock it off with the horn - especially when I'm her passenger. She's the type who in an escalation will try to dominate any argument right or wrong which will escalate basic road rage into physical violence. Meanwhile, any other men involved will see me and go "oh boy - another dude, someone to FIGHT yeah baby LET'S F'in GO RIGHT NOW LIKE RIGHT THE-F NOW!!!! FIGHT-FIGHT-FIGHT-FIGHT-FIGHT!!!!!!" A certain non-insignificant percentage of the male population is actually that unhinged and will flip on you in a moment's notice if you're bored and looking for some action. Consider the average person has come to realize they are piss-broke, never going to have shit in life and filled with self-hate, plus additional hate for the rest of the world and they can't wait to take ALL OF IT out on you if you give them the opportunity.

Here you go:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw965KJsI4o

 

[headednorth]

I have more than once told my wife to knock it off with the horn - especially when I'm her passenger. She's the type who in an escalation will try to dominate any argument right or wrong which will escalate basic road rage into physical violence. Meanwhile, any other men involved will see me and go "oh boy - another dude, someone to FIGHT yeah baby LET'S F'in GO RIGHT NOW LIKE RIGHT THE-F NOW!!!! FIGHT-FIGHT-FIGHT-FIGHT-FIGHT!!!!!!" A certain non-insignificant percentage of the male population is actually that unhinged and will flip on you in a moment's notice if you're bored and looking for some action. Consider the average person has come to realize they are piss-broke, never going to have shit in life and filled with self-hate, plus additional hate for the rest of the world and they can't wait to take ALL OF IT out on you if you give them the opportunity.

Here you go:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw965KJsI4o

I know a girl who would blow her horn and very dramatically give people the finger for the most minor of things. I was horrified. People didn't do that shit where I came from because it was likely to escalate into violence and who knows where it goes from there. I told her to knock that shit off for the very same reason you mentioned. If it did lead to something, it would be me fighting some a**h*** while she stayed in the car.

 

[HARRYM]

I have more than once told my wife to knock it off with the horn - especially when I'm her passenger. She's the type who in an escalation will try to dominate any argument right or wrong which will escalate basic road rage into physical violence. Meanwhile, any other men involved will see me and go "oh boy - another dude, someone to FIGHT yeah baby LET'S F'in GO RIGHT NOW LIKE RIGHT THE-F NOW!!!! FIGHT-FIGHT-FIGHT-FIGHT-FIGHT!!!!!!" A certain non-insignificant percentage of the male population is actually that unhinged and will flip on you in a moment's notice if you're bored and looking for some action. Consider the average person has come to realize they are piss-broke, never going to have shit in life and filled with self-hate, plus additional hate for the rest of the world and they can't wait to take ALL OF IT out on you if you give them the opportunity.

Here you go:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw965KJsI4o

I never get tired of watching that retard shooting through his windows......