FFL Difficulties

[cape9mm]

Hello All
I am new to the hobby and first time needing an FFL. I recently placed an order for 2 stripped AR lowers with a company. They ship to MA as long as they go to an FFL. On their site, they have a list of FFL. I found one very close to my home that I thought I would try. I know who the owner of the hardware(!) store. Ex military, not a friendly person, I just ignore him and his business. No bad blood. just is what it is. This was a low dollar experiment since I half expected him to do this. I go in person to try and talk to him, he wasn't available. I email him letting him know said company needs his info to ship. Next thing I know I get a "shipped" email! Than 2 days later a response from him saying he won't do it due to having too many questions. No idea what that means. I reply saying happy to answer anything and even come in to discuss. Yesterday I get a message saying item delivered, than a response from him saying the lowers aren't MA compliant. I have lot's more to say on this, but, without opening a sh*% can of arguments here, does he have an obligation being a license holder to do the transfer? Should I contact the state? My last email response was, "My understanding of the law is that until they are built, they are perfectly compliant and not a firearm." I have no problem registering everything with the State once completed, per the law. I also just asked him to ship them back to the company who I have notified and they said they would re ship once returned to another, more amenable FFL. Thoughts??

 

[Rick O'Shea]

Courtesy is asking your FFL first before you send anything his way. You've learned a lesson about FFL's in MA. Why not just buy your lowers in person from an FFL locally. Call around or look in the dealer classifieds,..

 

[cape9mm]

Courtesy is asking your FFL first before you send anything his way. You've learned a lesson about FFL's in MA. Why not just buy your lowers in person from an FFL locally. Call around or look in the dealer classifieds,..

Thanks, I will look into that. And, to be clear, the seller website said they would not ship until receiving FFL response, hence my going in person and sending an email. Out of blue, the seller shipped them contrary to their own policy! I was attempting to do it the proper way. And, the price of the lowers was very good, I am sure couldn't be matched locally. All moot now...

 

[allen-1]

Yeah, what Richocet said. Always talk to the FFL before shipping items to them. They have to agree to accept them on your behalf, enter them into their books and then transfer them to you - and it's work for them - for which you pay a fee. He's under no obligation to accept them unless you two come to agreement.

You shipped them to him without checking. You really need to go there and figure out how to "fix" this. You may very well end up paying to ship them back to the origin.

As you've just found out - some FFLs in Massachusetts are more risk averse than others.

 

[whacko]

Hello All
I am new to the hobby and first time needing an FFL. I recently placed an order for 2 stripped AR lowers with a company. They ship to MA as long as they go to an FFL. On their site, they have a list of FFL. I found one very close to my home that I thought I would try. I know who the owner of the hardware(!) store. Ex military, not a friendly person, I just ignore him and his business. No bad blood. just is what it is. This was a low dollar experiment since I half expected him to do this. I go in person to try and talk to him, he wasn't available. I email him letting him know said company needs his info to ship. Next thing I know I get a "shipped" email! Than 2 days later a response from him saying he won't do it due to having too many questions. No idea what that means. I reply saying happy to answer anything and even come in to discuss. Yesterday I get a message saying item delivered, than a response from him saying the lowers aren't MA compliant. I have lot's more to say on this, but, without opening a sh*% can of arguments here, does he have an obligation being a license holder to do the transfer? Should I contact the state? My last email response was, "My understanding of the law is that until they are built, they are perfectly compliant and not a firearm." I have no problem registering everything with the State once completed, per the law. I also just asked him to ship them back to the company who I have notified and they said they would re ship once returned to another, more amenable FFL. Thoughts??

Contact the state? About what?



You should have coordinated with the ffl before you even paid for the lowers....even if they said they wouldn't ship until you had the ffl info.

Period. End thread.

 

[cape9mm]

Yeah, what Richocet said. Always talk to the FFL before shipping items to them. They have to agree to accept them on your behalf, enter them into their books and then transfer them to you - and it's work for them - for which you pay a fee. He's under no obligation to accept them unless you two come to agreement.

You shipped them to him without checking. You really need to go there and figure out how to "fix" this. You may very well end up paying to ship them back to the origin.

As you've just found out - some FFLs in Massachusetts are more risk averse than others.

I don't know how to make it more clear, for the 3rd time. The seller said to place the order, contact the FFL, once FFL info received, they would ship. That is exactly what I did! I DIDN'T just ship them to him without having a discussion. The seller just shipped without receiving FFL information!

 

[Grendizer138]

“I bought a couple of lowers for $39.99 from my couch and the FFL closest to my house, who i’ve never done business with before, doesn’t find this transaction worth my $50 so I’m going to call the state manager.”

It’s not easy being a gun newb in a commie state. Go green, build relationships with other gun owners and FFLs.

And don’t be a dick here. Frankly I’m surprised you haven’t gotten any “hi Maura’s” yet.

 

[Picton]

Hi, Maura.

OP, sounds like you tried to do your due diligence and are learning a thing or two. I've NEVER done business with FFLs from which I get sketchy vibes; frankly, everything you're describing about this hardware store guy would have made me avoid involving him in any part of this process. Establish a relationship (even just as an occasional buyer) with a gun store FFL, not a hardware store FFL, and do the transfers through them after giving them a heads-up first.

ETA: My read is that HE sent them his FFL info, then they shipped, and that he didn't tell you he'd done so, meaning the retailer wasn't "violating their own policy." I'm not clear on how you paid for the items without entering a shipping address...

ETA 2: I re-read, and now I'm not so sure. Whatever. It doesn't change my advice for the future, OP.

 

[drgrant]

Hello All
I am new to the hobby and first time needing an FFL. I recently placed an order for 2 stripped AR lowers with a company. They ship to MA as long as they go to an FFL. On their site, they have a list of FFL. I found one very close to my home that I thought I would try. I know who the owner of the hardware(!) store. Ex military, not a friendly person, I just ignore him and his business. No bad blood. just is what it is. This was a low dollar experiment since I half expected him to do this. I go in person to try and talk to him, he wasn't available. I email him letting him know said company needs his info to ship. Next thing I know I get a "shipped" email! Than 2 days later a response from him saying he won't do it due to having too many questions. No idea what that means. I reply saying happy to answer anything and even come in to discuss. Yesterday I get a message saying item delivered, than a response from him saying the lowers aren't MA compliant. I have lot's more to say on this, but, without opening a sh*% can of arguments here, does he have an obligation being a license holder to do the transfer? Should I contact the state? My last email response was, "My understanding of the law is that until they are built, they are perfectly compliant and not a firearm." I have no problem registering everything with the State once completed, per the law. I also just asked him to ship them back to the company who I have notified and they said they would re ship once returned to another, more amenable FFL. Thoughts??

You need to basically learn how to select dealers better

 

[whacko]

I don't know how to make it more clear, for the 3rd time. The seller said to place the order, contact the FFL, once FFL info received, they would ship. That is exactly what I did! I DIDN'T just ship them to him without having a discussion. The seller just shipped without receiving FFL information!

So why are you upset at the ffl? You should be upset at the vendor.

 

[allen-1]

I don't know how to make it more clear, for the 3rd time. The seller said to place the order, contact the FFL, once FFL info received, they would ship. That is exactly what I did! I DIDN'T just ship them to him without having a discussion. The seller just shipped without receiving FFL information!

From what I'm reading, you didn't have a conversation with the FFL. You sent them an email. Did you get a response from them saying "okay, have the seller ship them to me?" Because if not, that's NOT a conversation. That's a one-way communication.

 

[jkelly1229]

This is like the 5th one of these...i do miss how entitled everyone is in the Northeast

 

[allen-1]

This is like the 5th one of these...i do miss how entitled everyone is in the Northeast

I picked up an optic last week at Palmetto State Armory, (yeah - I know - NES HATES PSA; <shrug>). Walked into the store and the manager smiles and says "Hey Allen, how was your holiday?". Yeah - he shoots USPSA matches at my club.

Stopped by my local gun shop on the way home to see if my new basepads were in. They weren't, but a friend of mine was sitting on the couch patting the owner's dog, so I hung out for a while.

Georgia.

 

[robjax]

I don't know how to make it more clear, for the 3rd time. The seller said to place the order, contact the FFL, once FFL info received, they would ship. That is exactly what I did! I DIDN'T just ship them to him without having a discussion. The seller just shipped without receiving FFL information!

How did they have your FFL's address if they did't have his FFL information?

Makes more sense that after you spoke to your FFL that your FFL either contacted your selling agent and provided information or the selling agent already had his info.

From your explanation it doesn't sound like your FFL wasn't expecting the lowers. Seems like he was, so at some point I would assume he was in contact with your selling agent or at the very least had been notified that the lowers were on the way.

Not sure of your options as to acquiring the lowers from your FFL.

 

[The Anchor]

(waiting for the video/audio recording from the FFL exposing the real truth of what went down)…

 

[jasonj84]

Is your name Chris?

 

[MGnoob]

It can be frustrating I’ve had more than one. FFL say they’ll do a transfer only then change their mind after the fact.

It just rubs me the wrong way when it’s over something that’s so stupid and completely legal but in your situation it’s not surprising. The guy wouldn’t do it. Those ar15s are scary as you know.

 

[BTSDOG]

You said it was a low dollar experiment. good thing you didnt buy a couple of complete rifles.......

 

[jkelly1229]

How did they have your FFL's address if they did't have his FFL information?

Makes more sense that after you spoke to your FFL that your FFL either contacted your selling agent and provided information or the selling agent already had his info.

From your explanation it doesn't sound like your FFL wasn't expecting the lowers. Seems like he was, so at some point I would assume he was in contact with your selling agent or at the very least had been notified that the lowers were on the way.

Not sure of your options as to acquiring the lowers from your FFL.

You can order off a website and click the use ffl locator feature on some websites. Has their info

 

[VTski4x4]

"A price that can't be beat locally"

.......pretty sure there were $29 lowers in the classifieds last week. If you are squabbling over lowers that cheap, well you get what you deserve.

 

[jkelly1229]

Op...have you banged his wife yet?

 

[Mesatchornug]

How did they have your FFL's address if they did't have his FFL information?

Makes more sense that after you spoke to your FFL that your FFL either contacted your selling agent and provided information or the selling agent already had his info.

From your explanation it doesn't sound like your FFL wasn't expecting the lowers. Seems like he was, so at some point I would assume he was in contact with your selling agent or at the very least had been notified that the lowers were on the way.

Not sure of your options as to acquiring the lowers from your FFL.

It sounds like OP ordered from one of the common drop-shippers. Many of them have a drop-down menu with a searchable list of FFLs who've made themselves available to these places.

OP didn't confirm with the FFL before ordering, he just picked the nearest one in the menu.

without opening a sh*% can of arguments here, does he have an obligation being a license holder to do the transfer?

Absolutely not. In fact, an FFL can refuse a sale for any reason or no reason at all.

Should I contact the state?

G'head. Tell us how it works out for you.

My last email response was, "My understanding of the law is that until they are built, they are perfectly compliant and not a firearm." I have no problem registering everything with the State once completed, per the law.

Your understanding of the law doesn't affect the risk tolerance of a business-owner who isn't you. If I were him and based on your posts in this thread, I would invite you to never patronize my shop again.

 

[LLF]

A great FFL is like a great doctor, dentist, plumber, electrician, any other profession. Establish a good relationship with your FFL and keep it that way. That means good communication, picking up your inbound stuff in a timely manner so he/she doesn't have it lying around too long, purchasing whatever firearms you need from that FFL even if you could get them for a few dollars less on Gunbroker. Don't push them to do things they can't do. And it doesn't hurt to bring in some coffee and doughnuts every once in a while just to show your appreciation.
I have been using the same FFL for about 5 years now. He is great. I won't go anywhere else.

 

[MGnoob]

Not to rub it in, but you can always just go to Burger King and buy your lowers… Dunkin’ Donuts.
Basically, any parking lot.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Nothing to really add other then you have to have thick skin to survive on NES. Take everything said with a grain of salt. Everyone was new at some point and got roasted at least once. There are a couple of good suggestions here so take those and run. Stick around as well. You'll learn a lot.

 

[MGnoob]

Nothing to really add other then you have to have thick skin to survive on NES. Take everything said with a grain of salt. Everyone was new at some point and got roasted at least once. There are a couple of good suggestions here so take those and run. Stick around as well. You'll learn a lot.

And go green or yellow…

Go read my first post I got assassinated.

It also helps if you go to the shoots and the meet ups so people know you’re a real person..

You might be lucky enough to come across the DGrant or reptile… that’s worth the membership costs alone

 

[appraiser]

OK not to be the ahole here, but @cape9mm may not be quite up to speed on how things work in MA

1) No FFL is under any obligation to receive any product on your behalf or transfer it to you.
They are a private business and have no obligation to do anything they don't want to do.

2) I'm surprised any out of state or online vendor would ship stripped lowers to MA due to MOST but not all of the MA licensed gun dealers trying to stay under the radar on such items due to some very questionable edicts proclaimed by the former AG and Current Governor Maura the Muncher. Her decrees and edicts have no force of law, but very few FFL's want to get on the radar by violating her no force of law edicts.

3) find a FFL Local Gun Shop and build a relationship with them. It might cost you a little more money, but by keeping a FFL in business you will be able to avail yourself of their products and services. There are GOOD shops, there are Great shops and there are the FUDDS and RATS you should avoid. Spend enough time here and you'll figure out which FFL is what. You may have to drive a few miles to find a good one. In the good old days, there was a FFL Mecca known as "The Mill" and people drove from miles around to do business with the dozens of FFL's there

 

[PaulR]

Go read my first post I got assassinated.

I think I remember that.
I think NES was about ready to send some folks out to do a wellness check on you.....

 

[LuvDog]

And go green or yellow…

Go read my first post I got assassinated.

It also helps if you go to the shoots and the meet ups so people know you’re a real person..

You might be lucky enough to come across the DGrant or reptile… that’s worth the membership costs alone

You can't go yellow anymore. That was a limited time offer

 

[rogersmithiii]

Hello All
I am new to the hobby and first time needing an FFL. I recently placed an order for 2 stripped AR lowers with a company. They ship to MA as long as they go to an FFL. On their site, they have a list of FFL. I found one very close to my home that I thought I would try. I know who the owner of the hardware(!) store. Ex military, not a friendly person, I just ignore him and his business. No bad blood. just is what it is. This was a low dollar experiment since I half expected him to do this. I go in person to try and talk to him, he wasn't available. I email him letting him know said company needs his info to ship. Next thing I know I get a "shipped" email! Than 2 days later a response from him saying he won't do it due to having too many questions. No idea what that means. I reply saying happy to answer anything and even come in to discuss. Yesterday I get a message saying item delivered, than a response from him saying the lowers aren't MA compliant. I have lot's more to say on this, but, without opening a sh*% can of arguments here, does he have an obligation being a license holder to do the transfer? Should I contact the state? My last email response was, "My understanding of the law is that until they are built, they are perfectly compliant and not a firearm." I have no problem registering everything with the State once completed, per the law. I also just asked him to ship them back to the company who I have notified and they said they would re ship once returned to another, more amenable FFL. Thoughts??

Find another ffl. And always get the ok before shipping anything.