Florida LTC questions

[GSG]

So I'll be spending some time in free America in the near future, and while refreshing myself on the Florida gun laws I came up with a few questions.

First off, I've done some reading at the following websites: http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html and http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0790/ch0790.htm and http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Getchell1.htm

Secondly, I have a non-res. Florida LTC.

I'd like some people here to double check my thought process on a few points WRT the Florida laws, to make sure I'm reading this correctly.

The Florida license reads at the top "Concealed Weapon or Firearm License, State of Florida." I'll be carrying a gun, but now I'm considering enjoying the freedoms of carrying other "concealed weapons," simply because I like the idea of being able to choose to do so.

Florida Statutes 790.001 (3)a says: "Concealed weapon" means any dirk, metallic knuckles, slungshot, billie, tear gas gun, chemical weapon or device, or other deadly weapon carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the weapon from the ordinary sight of another person.

But then in 790.01 (3) it says (bold emphasis mine):
790.01 Carrying concealed weapons.--

(1) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person who carries a concealed weapon or electric weapon or device on or about his or her person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(2) A person who carries a concealed firearm on or about his or her person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) This section does not apply to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm pursuant to the provisions of s. 790.06.

(4) It is not a violation of this section for a person to carry for purposes of lawful self-defense, in a concealed manner:

(a) A self-defense chemical spray.

(b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.

(5) This section does not preclude any prosecution for the use of an electric weapon or device, a dart-firing stun gun, or a self-defense chemical spray during the commission of any criminal offense under s. 790.07, s. 790.10, s. 790.23, or s. 790.235, or for any other criminal offense.

From 790.06(1):
(1) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(9). Such licenses shall be valid throughout the state for a period of 7 years from the date of issuance. Any person in compliance with the terms of such license may carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm notwithstanding the provisions of s. 790.01. The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Violations of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the court.

Based on the above laws, I'm assuming a "billie" would include a telescoping baton? Would it be legal for one to carry metallic knuckles or a switchblade with an LTC? My head's staring to hurt with all the different definitions. It seems to me like knuckles would be specifically illegal, and a switchblade would be gray area. Thoughts here?


Now, from 790.001(17):
"Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

And from 790.25(5):
(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

Here I'm assuming that the "other than a handgun" part is simply saying that handguns in the car without an LTC must be "securely encased," but not long guns. So I am also assuming that it would be legal for an 18 year old who is not a prohibited person to travel with a loaded handgun in the glove compartment?

It's taken me hours to read through and cross-reference all of this into a neat and easily understandable way, and I want to make sure that I'm not walking into a legal blunder.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Since I have no idea what the answers are, I suggest that you check the following FL forum for info.

http://www.floridashootersnetwork.com/phpbb3/index.php

 

[GSG]

One more thing I just remembered.

From Florida Statutes 790.06(12), bold emphasis mine once again:

(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any area technical center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

My assumption here is that carrying in a bar is a no-no, but carrying in a restaurant that has a bar in it (like Applebees, the 99, etc.) is OK as long as you aren't in the actual bar area of the restaurant. Does this seem correct to the rest of the Internet?

Since I have no idea what the answers are, I suggest that you check the following FL forum for info.

http://www.floridashootersnetwork.com/phpbb3/index.php

Thanks for the link, I'll do some looking there too, I hadn't seen that one before.

 

[CooperS7777]

I cant answer any of your questions GSG, but Im glad I read through as Ill be road tripping it to Florida (they recognize my NH permit) in the beginning of March - specifically the bar part, seeing as we will be there during Bike Week.

 

[jdubois]

It sounds to me like you've done the correct research, GSG. It seems, as you've discovered, that with a Florida permit you can carry concealed a "handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie".

a switchblade would be gray area[?]

There is no law in FL that specifically bans that carrying of a switchblade. So that should be acceptable to carry under a permit as a "knife".

So I am also assuming that it would be legal for an 18 year old who is not a prohibited person to travel with a loaded handgun in the glove compartment?

I believe that to be correct.

carrying in a restaurant that has a bar in it (like Applebees, the 99, etc.) is OK as long as you aren't in the actual bar area of the restaurant. Does this seem correct to the rest of the Internet?

That's how I'd read it.

 

[GSG]

I cant answer any of your questions GSG, but Im glad I read through as Ill be road tripping it to Florida (they recognize my NH permit) in the beginning of March - specifically the bar part, seeing as we will be there during Bike Week.

Good, I'm glad someone else could get something out of all the mindless clicking back and forth I had to do to find all those laws.

But seriously, I think it's always a good idea to research the heck out of this stuff beforehand. That way I can quote the actual laws if it ever comes down to it, and if I know it I shouldn't have any issues in the first place.

All the off-limits places to carry in Florida are a little more than I'm used to being from Mass., but I won't be visiting them anyway, so it works for me for now.

I think the best thing about Florida's laws is that there's very little ambiguity. They put what their legislative intent is in each section, so there's a lot less gray area, unlike here in Mass.

My personal favorite is that even if you do something stupid like get a DUI and lose your LTC, it's all spelled out about how long you'll be out of one for, and even without an LTC, you can keep the gun in your car. Much better than the legal quagmire we're left with here in Mass.

I think Vermont's gun laws are the best in the US, but Florida's reciprocity agreements, car carry, and overall set up is a pretty darn good response to dealing with states that require LTC's, IMHO.


Thanks for everyone's help, and if you come across anything new, feel free to let me know.

 

[jdubois]

I think Vermont's gun laws are the best in the US

Alaska is pretty much on par with Vermont. They have a funny, "you must announce your concealed carry to the resident upon entering a residential house" law, but they also have an optional concealed carry permit you can obtain if you wish, solely to help you when in reciprocal states that demand a home state permit.

 

[GSG]

Alaska is pretty much on par with Vermont. They have a funny, "you must announce your concealed carry to the resident upon entering a residential house" law, but they also have an optional concealed carry permit you can obtain if you wish, solely to help you when in reciprocal states that demand a home state permit.

Very true.

The only thing keeping me from moving to Vermont or Alaska is all that cold, white snow.