Friends or burdens?

when the SHTF, the only people that I would consider my friends are my close immediate family. Anyone else comes knocking there getting the "Who the F*$K are you? Get outta here"
 
Well, I do think many people are coming around, like I said before, but there are different levels and types of coming around. Events like Katrina, wildfires, and other natural disasters have woken people up a bit to the idea that something could happen, leaving them stranded or forcing them to flee. And you have multiple gov't agencies (CDC, DHS, FEMA) recommending that people keep emergencies supplies on hand. So a lot more people are doing that, as it isn't considered as fringe as it used to be. From what I've seen, there is a fairly broad spectrum of 'mainstream' prepping.

Like MisterHappy says, though, the next, bigger step, would be people taking responsibility for defending themselves, which for a lot of city-folk probably involves a conscious realization that many people prefer to avoid because of the obvious implications.
 
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Rider said:
Well, I do think many people are coming around, like I said before, but there are different levels and types of coming around. Events like Katrina, wildfires, and other natural disasters have woken people up a bit to the idea that something could happen, leaving them stranded or forcing them to flee. And you have multiple gov't agencies (CDC, DHS, FEMA) recommending that people keep emergencies supplies on hand. So a lot more people are doing that, as it isn't considered as fringe as it used to be. From what I've seen, there is a fairly broad spectrum of 'mainstream' prepping.

Like MisterHappy says, though, the next, bigger step, would be people taking responsibility for defending themselves, which for a lot of city-folk probably involves a conscious realization that many people prefer to avoid because of the obvious implications.
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Very well said sir. This was a good read this morning. I'll rep you later. +1

I think people are starting to believe the gov is collapsing. My parents don't believe it and think I'm crazy that I plan ahead just in case SHTF. You can't win with some people, it's just as simple as that. I've tried 10000 times. [sad2]
 
ColdDayInHell said:
Very well said sir. This was a good read this morning. I'll rep you later. +1

I think people are starting to believe the gov is collapsing. My parents don't believe it and think I'm crazy that I plan ahead just in case SHTF. You can't win with some people, it's just as simple as that. I've tried 10000 times. [sad2]
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My brother and I have tried with our mother, just even for her to prep for the basics, since she lives in tornado alley, but she would rather have her head in the sand.
 
I wasn't saying that the point of them coming to the range was to learn to shoot - it was to show that they've taken the (in Mass, especially) most difficult step.

Anyone can get half a dozen bottles of Poland Spring, ten pounds of rice, and some Spam, and say "I'm ready." BUt few have actuall done the analysis of: Number of people x number of meals per day x number of days = how much I need in the basement. Then to think about: If we lose power, will I have Light, heat, water, and sewer.

These are just the most obvious, basic stuff - candles, woodstove, stored H2O and a back yard and shovel fix it.

But, I'll say that Irene was a good test run, for me and mine. Light was no problem - kero the first night, Colemans added afterwards; it was warm, so no heat was required; town water and sewer, so no issue there. But people in my neighborhood bugged out to better-equipped locations, or only had candles.

If it had been winter, and we'd not had power for the same period, many of the neighbors would have been in much worse shape - pretty much all the houses have fireplaces, but they're not the real efficiennt kind, and would be a wood pig to get any useful heat out of.

I'm not what I'd consider a prepper....more of an accumulator....but my accumulation is along the lines of stuff that would be useful were there to be a hiccup in basic services.

If the neighbors have more than two flashlights, with a change of batteries for each, and a half dozen candles, they're about average, I'd guess. In a more-urban area, the problems are exacerbated due to population density.

The other thing is to practice, and the non-serious-about-it won't do it. One thing that we found was that two or three votive candles, strategically placed, allowed all of us to move around at night (hit the head, let out the dog). It's a small thing, but this is not the sort of thing that a "thought experiment" will show. How many apartmetn dwellers have food stockpiled, but don't realize that the elecric stove and can opener will not work?
 
None of our local friends know anything about how much food or weapons or ammo we have. And I like it that way.

Unless they bring their stash, and it is a good one, they are not welcome here when TSHTF.
 
I think prepping is actually the easy part. It's my location that will be a big problem if the world goes to hell. I live in a small town house community that has 11 units in two buildings. The second building, which I live in, is on the end of the driveway with woods on three sides. I've come to realize in my planning that my wife and I will either need to displace to somewhere else if things go to hell or hunker down where we are. Each has it's own drawbacks.

If we decide to move, the only good place would be close family that isn't that close. If we could move that would be a better choice. The most likely situation though will be that we'll be stuck where we are. If something goes bad quick, moving will just make us targets on the road with everyone else trying to flee to who knows where.

This leaves hunkering down, which I've quickly come to realize that it will be up to me to defend and most likely help feed my neighbors. This leaves me in a big hole when it comes to food. There are benefits though. Strength in numbers is one. Arming them will not be a problem and I've even given some thought as to how to defend the building. Still leaves me with the problem of how we survive food wise long term. There's easy access to water as a river runs next to the complex. Fishing could be one source. There's a lot of land for hunting, but I'm betting that game will become scarce pretty quick. There's also a large field next to us that could be used for farming and one of the residence ran a 100 acre farm in her former life. Problem being we'd never get any crops out before the starving masses over ran them.

I guess I keep doing what I'm doing and stockpile as I go. It doesn't help that I watched "The Road" last weekend for the first time. I'm thinking that what that movie showed will come to pass when people start starving. I can't imagine that I'd eat fellow human beings, but then again, I've never been starving......
 
Rockrivr1 said:
I think prepping is actually the easy part. It's my location that will be a big problem if the world goes to hell. I live in a small town house community that has 11 units in two buildings. The second building, which I live in, is on the end of the driveway with woods on three sides. I've come to realize in my planning that my wife and I will either need to displace to somewhere else if things go to hell or hunker down where we are. Each has it's own drawbacks.

If we decide to move, the only good place would be close family that isn't that close. If we could move that would be a better choice. The most likely situation though will be that we'll be stuck where we are. If something goes bad quick, moving will just make us targets on the road with everyone else trying to flee to who knows where.

This leaves hunkering down, which I've quickly come to realize that it will be up to me to defend and most likely help feed my neighbors. This leaves me in a big hole when it comes to food. There are benefits though. Strength in numbers is one. Arming them will not be a problem and I've even given some thought as to how to defend the building. Still leaves me with the problem of how we survive food wise long term. There's easy access to water as a river runs next to the complex. Fishing could be one source. There's a lot of land for hunting, but I'm betting that game will become scarce pretty quick. There's also a large field next to us that could be used for farming and one of the residence ran a 100 acre farm in her former life. Problem being we'd never get any crops out before the starving masses over ran them.

I guess I keep doing what I'm doing and stockpile as I go. It doesn't help that I watched "The Road" last weekend for the first time. I'm thinking that what that movie showed will come to pass when people start starving. I can't imagine that I'd eat fellow human beings, but then again, I've never been starving......
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Does your townhouse have alternate heat?

Any of your neighbors into prepping at all? Even the 3 days recommended? Print out copies of the ready.gov flyers and put them in their mailboxes. Might get one or 2 of them moving.

Bone up on your wild edibles. Walk around now and ID these now if possible. Does anyone there currently garden? Do you have seed enough to grow all the food required? Game and fish will be gone quickly. YOu can hide crops fairly well. That field will grow up pretty fast. If you look at lower growing things you can keep them out of sight. The hard thing is for that number of people you are looking at probably 10 acres that need to be cultivated. Does anyone have the tools to work that much land?

It is a huge challenge and sobering to really look at the logistics of keeping a group watered and fed.
 
When people say to me "If the SHTF, I am coming to your house" I say, "Don't, you will be shot at the bottom of the driveway" and when they laugh, I say " I am serious"

You can actually see the realization wash over them
 
MisterHappy said:
The real problem is getting them to work for their keep. For real.

Also, who put you in charge? (Because someone is sure to ask.....) These are things that you need to think about, if you're forming a communty....
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Never thought of that. Good point. Well my neighbors consist of a single mom and her son, a lesbian couple, a single older lady, and a young husband/wife/baby family. As far as a community goes, it's going to have a lot of estrogen in it. Hope they can shoot.
 
Here are some thoughts to share:

1) You'll need a sizable population to establish and maintain security in the event of a total meltdown of public services. One of the few things that Revolution has gotten right is the rapid decent society will take following a SHTF event. The ex-google executive's statement, "And suddenly the whole world was a school playground" is extremely accurate. However, might can come from numbers as well as size. You want at least 10-12 able bodied adults just to maintain security and division of labor. Plan accordingly.

2) Ask yourself, if the SHTF and there is a break-down of basic services, would you really turn this person away from your house knowing that they have no means to establish and maintain security or provide for the basic needs of water, food, heat and shelter? If the answer is no, don't continue to delude yourself, they're not your friend.

3) Now that you've established who your friends are, plan accordingly. Talk to them about contributing to the stores as part of your invitation to come if the SHTF. Now's also a good time to establish a plan, division of labor and expected roles post-event. Remember, SHTF doesn't need to be a total end of the world event. It could be a flood, extended power outage, riots, oil supply disruption, food disruption, etc. Don't forget to plan for sleeping arrangements - beds, mattresses, blankets, pillows, etc as well as dishes and silverware.

4) In addition to the basic needs of division of labor and security, having trusted friends and family with you during a crisis will help you deal with the crisis mentally, physically and emotionally.


Yes, planning for other people beyond your immediate family can put a strain on store, space and supplies, but unless you're honestly willing to turn them away in the event of a real emergency where turning them away may well be a death sentence, you'd best be prepared to accept them in, and any help you can get from them in the mean-time will be incredibly useful.
 
Anyone who doesn't share their hoards, well we'll just kill you in your sleep and take everything. Even Madmax needed a gyro pilot to help him out.[laugh] It won't be like your fantasy, you will need to build a community to survive. Might as well start with people you know. Countries still function during revolution, not everyone is a shooter, people still go to work, well some of them. Stuff gets produced, there will be shortages of course, violence of varied forms, people going missing and such. Everyone doesn't get to sit in a hide and pink mist random people all day long, while the native girls in grass skirts deliver sammiches to them.[rolleyes][laugh]
 
I discussed this with friends not too long ago and said my friends were welcome so long as they brought enough food for themselves, and ammo for (insert list of calibers here) would be needed. It was a joking conversation, and I never really thought much about it... now I'm thinking about it, and I'm no longer happy. I have a set plan on what will happen if SHTF and I have to hold out and supply myself and my fiancee for a while, but I never did the math on what was needed, a few flashlights, a load of candles, matches, batteries, and most all of the food in my pantry is shelf stable for an extremely long time; going over it in my head, our food would hold out for a few days, water will get difficult within 2 days(don't forget that the water in the reservoir of your toilet is drinkable, assuming you clean it on occasion. Most don't like to think about that as drinking water, but it is clean so long as you don't use those clorox tabs or 2000 flushes or anything like that) In a true SHTF scenario, I am in no position to support more than my fiancee and myself for any duration, and even we will have issues after the first 2 or 3 days.

Time to re-work and plan this out a bit better. Really wishing I had a bathtub now.
 
derek said:
Is NH going to be overrun with Mexicans when the SHTF?
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Nope just MA residents. I have told only those in my prep plan what I have and where, and even they don't know where one stash of food is even my wife doesn't but she does know where the directions are hidden. A lot of people who joke about "I know where I am going" have been told if you have a valuable skill and are willing to pull double your weight for my protection and shelter you are welcome to come.
 
Scarecrow said:
(don't forget that the water in the reservoir of your toilet is drinkable, assuming you clean it on occasion.
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The water in your toilet resevior is generally not considered potable. It is warm, dark and generally stagnent, a perfect growth location for large numbers of microbes. The porous interior surface of most tanks, and the materials of the seals, flapper values, posts, floats, hoses, clamps, rods and chains are not intended for exposure to potible water. Sure, if you boil and filter it it should be fine, but it will serve a far better purpose of flushing the toilet and removing solid waste than drinking water.
 
derek said:
Is NH going to be overrun with Mexicans when the SHTF?
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For anyone up North a bit more, french might not be a bad idea to brush up on. Get into the rural parts of Quebec and English isn't as well known as people would like to think.

As to the OP, i don't get butt-hurt about opsec.. but those people that joke about coming to my house I respond to the effect of "even if you got what it takes to make it there, you'll be very dissapointed when I tell you to keep walking". That said, I do plan on taking in a few people I can put to use... and both our parents. We also have friends in town that prep.

Most everyone I know is 30+ miles away, so i'm not too concerned.

My wife and I can't stand watch, defend, and do all the other things we need to do alone.
 
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For all the crap that it gets, the movie "The Postman" gives a decent representation of a post-SHTF world. Life has gone on. There was a plague and abig die-off; there are Warlords with their own armies; Towns that are fortifed and defended; and drifters.

The towns buy peace from the warlords, because they can't beat them; the Warlords allow themselves to be bought off, becasue the towns supply the army's needs, and it would be costly to attack the town.

My point? This sort of thing takes a while to reach a "steady state".

In the near-aftermath of a SHTF oopsie, unless there is a 95% die-off, the starving hordes from the cities will make the Wakers from Walking Dead look good.

Sure, you've got a big-ass garden. Sure, you've got firepower. BUt do you have sufficient competent personnel to man the defences 24/7, from all sides? If 20 or so Hungries show up, and start lobbing molotovs at your house, what will the answer be?

For anyone that watchse Grimm, you know how dangerous Sheeple can be when there's a bunch of them. Your head-in-the-sand neighbors will get together, just like in the Twilight Zone episode with the bomb shelter, when they're hungry enough.
 
My close friends helped me to get where I am and helped make me what I am today. I wouldn't be able to do what I do today without their help, and thus wouldn't be able to provide for myself the way I can or build up supplies and equipment the way I have. In a crisis, even if they dont have survival plans or training, I will never turn my back on them - even if that means endangering myself.
 
Friends until the food runs out. I've got a tight ship, unfortunately we are in new england, and winter gets long. It's pretty limited to people of the same mindset, leaving the others to fend for themselves. More mouthes to feed = less chance of overall survival. I might pass off a handgun to a neighbor I really like, give them some farewell advice, but I'm not going to hold their hand through it. I've got my own to worry about, and the people I've actually developed a plan with. Above the set "party", that would be 1 too many to improvise a new strategy. Party is small, but smart, armed to the teeth, fast, and fairly well supplied so far. I'm humbly guessing at least 50% of the north east will starve off in the first 6 months. If that 6th month is march, we're in luck being that is the start of growing season. Once the masses start dropping in large numbers, less mouthes to feed, food becomes less scarce. Some people will probably start communicating again. At this point, having friends won't be such a bad thing. For the first 6 - 10 months, I'm avoiding everyone aside from the immediate group, or until people start communicating again and don't want to eat one another, whichever comes first.
 
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Rockrivr1 said:
I think once people start eating each other, there's no coming back from that.......
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No worries people in lifeboats used to do it all the time.

- - - Updated - - -

MichaelJR said:
Friends until the food runs out. I've got a tight ship, unfortunately we are in new england, and winter gets long. It's pretty limited to people of the same mindset, leaving the others to fend for themselves. More mouthes to feed = less chance of overall survival. I might pass off a handgun to a neighbor I really like, give them some farewell advice, but I'm not going to hold their hand through it. I've got my own to worry about, and the people I've actually developed a plan with. Above the set "party", that would be 1 too many to improvise a new strategy. Party is small, but smart, armed to the teeth, fast, and fairly well supplied so far. I'm humbly guessing at least 50% of the north east will starve off in the first 6 months. If that 6th month is march, we're in luck being that is the start of growing season. Once the masses start dropping in large numbers, less mouthes to feed, food becomes less scarce. Some people will probably start communicating again. At this point, having friends won't be such a bad thing. For the first 6 - 10 months, I'm avoiding everyone aside from the immediate group, or until people start communicating again and don't want to eat one another, whichever comes first.
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In 6 months there will be roving armies. If you don't join a gang post apocalypse you will end up fodder for a gang.
 

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