boscru
NES Member
heard this a few times lately-they used to give t & h to first timers and lifted on renewal or after a year or two if you didn't have any issues
this is a very positive change
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Guide to gun rights in your Massachusetts town
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heard this a few times lately-they used to give t & h to first timers and lifted on renewal or after a year or two if you didn't have any issues
this is a very positive change
gbest
NES Member
We were surprised, they have a notice posted that says for the first two years it will be restricted.
The firearms officer is named Skinner, he's a real nice guy, I told him that my job is in Mattapan, my buddy works all hours of the night doing bridge work on the local highways, that may have had some bearing on the lack of restrictions.
Or he just felt sorry for us!
Anyone have any recent wait times for Boston? Cops at Moon Island told me 10-12 weeks but then I was told by 3 people in less than a week who have their LTC that from Moon Island test to receiving LTC was about 4 weeks!!!! More specifically one said 4 weeks exactly, another said 4ish, then today a co worker asked me if I got mine yet, and when I told him I only passed the test 3 weeks ago he was like, "oh then you should get it soon its usually 4-6 week". This is new to me anyone heard of faster process in Boston recently?
Edit: Sorry I meant to post this in a different section.
Edit: Sorry I meant to post this in a different section.
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Dartmouth Update: LTC appointment was last day of July. I am approaching the 8 week mark, called and was told flat out not to call again and that they will call me when it's ready. Apparently they are just getting the June applications back now.
Quiet
Banned
I had a call with my town's dpw and the guy was a total asswipe... They forget that they are supposed to make our lives better, not that we're obligated to provide them with a job. Arses.
12 weeks so far in Lynn and nothing yet...
Any recent feedback on Boxford? I'll be moving there next month and I'm up for renewal in Feb.
Thanks
Thanks
Just applied for my non-res through the town of Chelmsford yesterday.
Actually you have to submit the application and then they mail you a date for your 'interview'. Mine was for yesterday between 4 and 7 pm. When I got there a few minutes before 4pm, there was 1 person already waiting.
Chelmsford changes the day and time every week as people would just show up looking to submit their application and do the rest of it. (the horror!)
The officer didn't do much. She must have already had everything entered. She took my picture and my money. That's all. If you are a new applicant she would do your prints at this time. She didn't take mine because I am already in the system having previously been a resident LTC holder.
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Just applied for my non-res through the town of Chelmsford yesterday.
Actually you have to submit the application and then they mail you a date for your 'interview'. Mine was for yesterday between 4 and 7 pm. When I got there a few minutes before 4pm, there was 1 person already waiting.
Chelmsford changes the day and time every week as people would just show up looking to submit their application and do the rest of it. (the horror!)
The officer didn't do much. She must have already had everything entered. She took my picture and my money. That's all. If you are a new applicant she would do your prints at this time. She didn't take mine because I am already in the system having previously been a resident LTC holder.
Actually you have to submit the application and then they mail you a date for your 'interview'. Mine was for yesterday between 4 and 7 pm. When I got there a few minutes before 4pm, there was 1 person already waiting.
Chelmsford changes the day and time every week as people would just show up looking to submit their application and do the rest of it. (the horror!)
The officer didn't do much. She must have already had everything entered. She took my picture and my money. That's all. If you are a new applicant she would do your prints at this time. She didn't take mine because I am already in the system having previously been a resident LTC holder.
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Just applied for my non-res through the town of Chelmsford yesterday.
Actually you have to submit the application and then they mail you a date for your 'interview'. Mine was for yesterday between 4 and 7 pm. When I got there a few minutes before 4pm, there was 1 person already waiting.
Chelmsford changes the day and time every week as people would just show up looking to submit their application and do the rest of it. (the horror!)
The officer didn't do much. She must have already had everything entered. She took my picture and my money. That's all. If you are a new applicant she would do your prints at this time. She didn't take mine because I am already in the system having previously been a resident LTC holder.
ntomsw
Banned
I thought all non-res licenses went through the DCJIS in Chelsea??? Like you actually had to go to Chelsea to apply.
That is correct. The only exception is when you are a Mass resident of one town and a business owner in another, then you can apply for a LTC in the town that you have your business in. I think this is what the OP means and he has used the non-res term incorrectly at least in the context of standard usage of what it means and there is no way the town of Chelmsford can issue a Mass Non Res LTC, if he is out of state, they all have to go thru Chelsea.
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I knew someone would pick up on Deb's "mis-speak". She's getting a MA RESIDENT LTC based on her (ownership) business location even though she is now a Free Woman living in NH.
FIFY, see my comment above.
ntomsw
Banned
Ahhh, I get it now. I just wasn't sure if MA had changed their policy.
Quiet
Banned
When I was talking to my LO he was saying that any MA resident that applies to him for a business LTC is instructed to go to his town of residence and only come back to my town if he is denied an LTC from his town of residence.
Is this the rule or is it uncommon?
Is this the rule or is it uncommon?
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yes, some do this.
Thanks LenS. You are, of course, correct. I will receive a Resident LTC as a business owner in Chelmsford (even though I live in NH). I will let you all know what it looks like when it comes in. (it will be a 6 year license as well instead of the crappy 1 year license through Chelsea)
BTW, the licensing officer (who has been great) said that she just received state police background check 'clearances' from 14/15 weeks ago. SO that's the time frame people should be looking at right now.
The state changed computer systems at the beginning of the year and they have been pretty FUBARed (the computers didn't work right). Also, they have had personnel leave? and are hiring and training more to do the state police checks. oddly enough 1 of the new 'technicians' was supposed to be in Chelmsford last night completing their application but had to work processing background checks. This is also the year when the bulk of renewals come due because of when the law was implemented.
Johnnycakes
Banned
Just got it in the mail yesterday
Newly minted LTC-A here. Restricted to "sporting" use and I'm not happy about it.
Lexington, MA
5/13/2013 - application submitted
5/14/2013 - phone conference with LO
5/15/2013 - finger printing, mug shot
7/22/2013 - check cashed
9/24/2013 - LTC-A arrived in mail
The LO in Lexington told me it was the department's policy not to issue LTC-A without restrictions to first-time applicants. He asked me if sporting or target use would suit my purposes; I told him if that were what I wanted, I would have asked for that instead of the unrestricted license.
I included the requisite written explanation of why I wanted the LTC-A, factually stating that I'm a 54 year-old married family man with 4 kids and a wife who depend upon me, and I understand the police cannot be everywhere all the time, and reaction time to a 911 call is often too long in an emergency, or it may not even be possible to dial 911 depending on circumstances. Went to the mandatory training, plus a couple of additional courses on armed defense in the home and concealed carry in the weeks immediately following the events of Patriot's Day.
I'm a financial professional with a ton of professional certifications and two professional degrees. I have never been to court except as a juror. I have no criminal convictions; my record is totally clean. Two speeding tickets in my entire life, the most recent of which was January of 1990.
Ended the convo with my telling him, very politely and sincerely, to process the application as he sees fit. If it doesn't come through as requested, we'll go to district court. And I have more than sufficient resources to back it up. Having my first conference with an attorney on Friday to discuss options for getting restrictions removed.
Restricted for "sporting" purposes. [bs1] What a load of crap. With that on my LTC I'd have to let myself get killed for fear of losing my LTC in self-defense. For that matter, with that stupid restriction, I wonder if I can even use pepper spray for other than "sporting" purposes.![[banghead]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/045.gif "Bang Head [banghead]")
Newly minted LTC-A here. Restricted to "sporting" use and I'm not happy about it.
Lexington, MA
5/13/2013 - application submitted
5/14/2013 - phone conference with LO
5/15/2013 - finger printing, mug shot
7/22/2013 - check cashed
9/24/2013 - LTC-A arrived in mail
The LO in Lexington told me it was the department's policy not to issue LTC-A without restrictions to first-time applicants. He asked me if sporting or target use would suit my purposes; I told him if that were what I wanted, I would have asked for that instead of the unrestricted license.
I included the requisite written explanation of why I wanted the LTC-A, factually stating that I'm a 54 year-old married family man with 4 kids and a wife who depend upon me, and I understand the police cannot be everywhere all the time, and reaction time to a 911 call is often too long in an emergency, or it may not even be possible to dial 911 depending on circumstances. Went to the mandatory training, plus a couple of additional courses on armed defense in the home and concealed carry in the weeks immediately following the events of Patriot's Day.
I'm a financial professional with a ton of professional certifications and two professional degrees. I have never been to court except as a juror. I have no criminal convictions; my record is totally clean. Two speeding tickets in my entire life, the most recent of which was January of 1990.
Ended the convo with my telling him, very politely and sincerely, to process the application as he sees fit. If it doesn't come through as requested, we'll go to district court. And I have more than sufficient resources to back it up. Having my first conference with an attorney on Friday to discuss options for getting restrictions removed.
Restricted for "sporting" purposes. [bs1] What a load of crap. With that on my LTC I'd have to let myself get killed for fear of losing my LTC in self-defense. For that matter, with that stupid restriction, I wonder if I can even use pepper spray for other than "sporting" purposes.
...Having my first conference with an attorney on Friday to discuss options for getting restrictions removed.
Restricted for "sporting" purposes. [bs1] What a load of crap. With that on my LTC I'd have to let myself get killed for fear of losing my LTC in self-defense. For that matter, with that stupid restriction, I wonder if I can even use pepper spray for other than "sporting" purposes.
Welcome to NES, and sorry to hear your story. I had essentially the same thing happen to me in Waltham (except that on top of everything you had, I was also an NRA instructor with tons of training), so I understand your frustration.
One important question to ask your lawyer - how many times they actually won a restriction removal in the court that your town belongs to. I'm afraid the answer will be zero, or very close to... at least in the Middlesex County. Waltham District Court has yet to overturn ONE restriction... ever.
Then, once you learn that you realistically cannot overturn that restriction, decide if you'd like to sue the town anyway to make a point and maybe in the hope to discourage them from screwing with their next victims... but understand that you will spend thousands on attorneys with little chance of personal success, and most towns are not sued often enough to get the attention of the selectmen/mayors.
In hindsight, you should talked to an attorney before applying, or at least as soon as the licensing officer indicated they will restrict you... but most people do not realize that.
Again, sorry for the hand you've been dealt, and I hope that being able to send your 4 kids to the excellent Lexington schools makes your limited freedom worth it. If not... you should have no problem selling your house and moving - the RE market is red hot in Lexington. Of course, moving to another MA town will still leave you with a restricted license unless the Lexington PD feels generous and expires your license early so your new town can issue you an ALP LTC - good luck with that.
Quiet
Banned
Contact Comm2A, they may be looking for plaintiffs like you, especially ones that could assist financially. :-DNewly minted LTC-A here. Restricted to "sporting" use and I'm not happy about it.
Lexington, MA
5/13/2013 - application submitted
5/14/2013 - phone conference with LO
5/15/2013 - finger printing, mug shot
7/22/2013 - check cashed
9/24/2013 - LTC-A arrived in mail
The LO in Lexington told me it was the department's policy not to issue LTC-A without restrictions to first-time applicants. He asked me if sporting or target use would suit my purposes; I told him if that were what I wanted, I would have asked for that instead of the unrestricted license.
I included the requisite written explanation of why I wanted the LTC-A, factually stating that I'm a 54 year-old married family man with 4 kids and a wife who depend upon me, and I understand the police cannot be everywhere all the time, and reaction time to a 911 call is often too long in an emergency, or it may not even be possible to dial 911 depending on circumstances. Went to the mandatory training, plus a couple of additional courses on armed defense in the home and concealed carry in the weeks immediately following the events of Patriot's Day.
I'm a financial professional with a ton of professional certifications and two professional degrees. I have never been to court except as a juror. I have no criminal convictions; my record is totally clean. Two speeding tickets in my entire life, the most recent of which was January of 1990.
Ended the convo with my telling him, very politely and sincerely, to process the application as he sees fit. If it doesn't come through as requested, we'll go to district court. And I have more than sufficient resources to back it up. Having my first conference with an attorney on Friday to discuss options for getting restrictions removed.
Restricted for "sporting" purposes. [bs1] What a load of crap. With that on my LTC I'd have to let myself get killed for fear of losing my LTC in self-defense. For that matter, with that stupid restriction, I wonder if I can even use pepper spray for other than "sporting" purposes.
You'd probably need to challenge the law as the law gives your chief wide latitude in restricting your license.
+1 with thanks for bringing Comm2A up...
Dammit - I should have suggested the same thing. I'm just slow today.
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We're already challenging that - Davis v. Grimes.
Johnnycakes
Banned
If that challenge is good, will it apply state-wide, or only to your specific cases? Do you have any use for another plaintiff whose reputation is beyond reproach... and for whom there is absolutely NO reason to deny an unrestricted license EXCEPT if the court upholds a policy saying, "we do not issue unrestricted LTC-A's to first-time applicants under any circumstances." ??
Johnnycakes
Banned
This wouldn't be the first time I made a PIA out of myself based solely on principle, and without regard to economic consequences, btw.
yanici
NES Member
I'm sure you're frustrated but slow down a bit. Get in touch with Comm2A and see what they say. If you proceed on your own the results could possibly jeopardize Comm2A's case. Easy does it.
Johnnycakes
Banned
How could I jeopardize 2A's case?
I'll be talking with my lawyer on Friday. If he wants to hook up with 2A, I'm open to that. But if all I have to lose is an LTC that is, for the most part, worthless to me, and a bit of money which is easily replaced, I could proceed on my own just for entertainment value. I mean, that restriction renders the LTC useless to me. And I'm stuck with it for at least 6 years. If someone can tell me the downside of court action, besides costing me money, I'm all ears.
Please ask Comm2A for a few minutes of their time to listen to their side. They have explained before how poorly chosen cases are used by MA courts to establish bad case law for all of us, but I am no lawyer and could not explain it properly. Trust me - talking to them directly will be time well spent. Your lawyer is unlikely to advise you NOT to sue, after all. Comm2A is an all volunteer organization which does great work for the MA residents...
There are no obvious downsides for you to suing the PD, other than the usual "he sued the PD, let's use our discretion to teach him a lesson" attitude that some cops might get... but that is no big deal to a law abiding, upstanding citizen. Of course, it could also lead to your LTC being restricted AGAIN at renewal when most compliant citizens get their unrestricted LTC after serving their 6 years without the right to defend themselves - remember, restrictions are entirely at the Chief's discretion. Whether that would also apply in another town depends on the nature of the relationship between the Lexington chief and the chief of whatever town you would have moved to.
And you would not LOSE your LTC - you'd just be in the same position having a useless restricted LTC.
I'd also suggest that you reach out to the local and state politicians, including the members of the Joint Committee onPublic Safety and Homeland Security. They are currently working on new firearms legislation for MA, and it would not hurt to tell them your story.
Good luck, whatever you do. And keep us posted if you can.
Johnnycakes
Banned
Now THAT'S some useful information! And it helps me prepare for my meeting with my attorney on Friday. I want to hear what he says first... then, depending upon my course of action, I will contact 2A. And I'm very open to the proposition that 2A is ahead of me on this, and my best option is to sit tight and wait until their cases ride out in court. If that is indeed the most... I forget the word I'm looking for exactly, but let's say the most prudent course of action, I'm fine with that. It's just that I never have been one to roll over and say, "ok, whatever you say, because you're the gubment..." You're a CPA, WatchCity.. so am I... could you imagine going into an IRS audit with that kind of an attitude? Neither could I. So I'm used to butting heads with the authorities to get what I am due.
That said, if the courts come back and say... "states have the right to set their own laws, and here in MA, we give every local chief the authority to use their discretion..." I'm fine with that too, IF that's what the courts come back with. Thus far, it seems like a very inconsistent, arbitrary, and dare I say, after living in China for over 10 years,... a policy that could be highly susceptible to corruption of local officials. There may be a place for some subjective judgment in the whole process.. but to leave everything up to the local chief to do whatever he wants? C'mon.... there was NO good reason at all to deny me an unrestricted license, EXCEPT that I'm a first-time applicant. And I have taken courses and represented that I would continue to take training. In fact, I'm signed up for 3 more training courses at this very moment. Ugh.
ETA: In other words, I'm not taking their decision personally at all. They put restrictions on EVERY first-time LTC-A they approve. I get it. The LO probably didn't even have any discretion to approve an unrestricted LTC-A to me... I understand. So it's not a personal thing, and I would hope they don't take it personally if I take them to court over it. It's just a matter of what is right under the law, and that is what courts are for.
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Our legal action projects are designed to effect change for everyone. If we take action to overturn a law orthe action of a state actor the intent is create lasting change.
Massachusetts is particularly complex when it comes to even the basic 'in the home' right affirmed by Heller even without delving into the whole carry issue. If you sue your chief in state court over a restricted LTC you'll be shut down. Not only is there no precedent for right to carry, you don't even have a right to the license.
If you go the federal route one of two things will happen. If your approach is anything similar to that in Davis, your case will be stayed pending the outcome in Davis. The federal courts only give 'one bite at the apple. If you go after your chief based upon your god given right to carry a firearm in public for for self defense you will lose because a) there is no right to carry in public, let alone a concealed large capacity firearm, or if there is a right to carry, you don't have a right to an LTC/A and should have applied for something else. Either way you'll end up with a loss that will only add to the massive body of bad case law.
Bottom line is that you don't even have a right to a restricted LTC/A - even if all you want to do is keep a gun in the home. The state has so thoroughly conflated the acts of possession and carry via the license to carry that unwinding the two is incredibly.
Trust us, we've done this and learned a few lessons in the law school of hard knocks.
Johnnycakes
Banned
OK, that's some more good info. That said, it sounds like the deck is totally stacked in favor of the state. If that's the case, why would ANY chief approve an unrestricted LTC-A? Here's a scenario: supposed I get killed and was not carrying because of my restriction, then my wife sues the town for denying the unrestricted LTC-A?
ETA: or suppose I am attacked and disabled so I can no longer earn what I do now... Then I sue the town for not issuing the unrestricted license as requested?
Thanks for the valuable input... and it IS valuable. I will be sure to discuss all this with my attorney. Sounds like the most prudent course of action may indeed be to ride it out and see how the previously filed cases shake out. If he doesn't suggest this course of action, I will be asking him why that isn't the best option for me.
ETA: or suppose I am attacked and disabled so I can no longer earn what I do now... Then I sue the town for not issuing the unrestricted license as requested?
Thanks for the valuable input... and it IS valuable. I will be sure to discuss all this with my attorney. Sounds like the most prudent course of action may indeed be to ride it out and see how the previously filed cases shake out. If he doesn't suggest this course of action, I will be asking him why that isn't the best option for me.
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![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
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