Harvard Sportsmen's Club

AHM said:
I'm pretty sure that if my club's CRO saw that,
he'd be using the log to contact all of the old-timers
who were on-site that day to ask if they saw anyone
shooting at soda bottles.
And there's a pretty good chance he'd figure out who did it,
and nip it in the bud.
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This is exactly what I'm trying to avoid: becoming a fudd club with ROs and "good ol' boys" cliques. I already had a run-in with one of those at Harvard and I wasn't a fan of that experience.


paul73 said:
'the right to shoot down chains shall not be infringed'? is that the point you`re making?

as i`ve lost track of what your point was.
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I'm just trying to highlight problems with some of these suggestions because there are many.

I really think that we should remember that the main appeal of HSC is its lax atmosphere. Instead of discussing cameras and sign-in sheets, maybe we should go back to talking about protecting the chains. Maybe we can use blocks similar to the indoor range to hide the chains. Maybe we can hang the plates on posts instead of chains and it might be easier to protect the posts. The club has the cash to make improvements - I'm just brainstorming what can be done at the 100 that doesn't turn the BoD into a bunch of babysitters for jerk members.
 
kalash said:
the main appeal of HSC is its lax atmosphere
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i do not argue for making a 100 into a copy of 200/300 one that is nothing like a 'lax atmosphere' at all, but you have to admit that none of such shit happens at 200/300.

it has to be a compromise, we all agree on that. but as of the protection of the plates setup - unless it will be made out of solid railroad rails whole i do not know what is it we can do.
show up at the work party and share your ideas, no one will object. just realize it is all volunteer work with only means available to any of us.

and no chain protection measures will solve the issue of pigs being pigs and littering all around.
 
kalash said:
And what happens if the board calls whoever was caught on camera shooting the chains and that person says "sorry, I was sighting in my rifle and it shot high"? Or "it was already broken when I got there"?
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How about "You didn't report the damage, so your still a miscreant even if it was unintentional".
 
I've mentioned hiding the chains and will bring it up again on Sunday. If cameras are used and someone is seen damaging club property, he should be made to pay for the repairs or kicked out. Intentional or accidental doesn't matter. People should be held accountable for their actions.
 
gerrycaruso said:
I've mentioned hiding the chains and will bring it up again on Sunday. If cameras are used and someone is seen damaging club property, he should be made to pay for the repairs or kicked out. Intentional or accidental doesn't matter. People should be held accountable for their actions.
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What was it that they borked again? The steel ... that is being shot at ... evidence using a photo that you guys took ... and have repeatedly posted ... who have also admitted having knocked it down themselves in the past ...

Consider golf. It's less stressful.
 
kalash said:
And what happens if the board calls whoever was caught on camera shooting the chains and that person says "sorry, I was sighting in my rifle and it shot high"? Or "it was already broken when I got there"?
Click to expand...

I was previously an executive or board member at a different club. We had a few disciplinary issues during my tenure. When we could identify the miscreant, we brought them and listened to what they had to say for themselves. Then we discussed it between ourselves. We then decided whether or not we believed them. It isn't a court of law. We didn't need to prove the allegations beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
kalash said:
I really think that we should remember that the main appeal of HSC is its lax atmosphere. Instead of discussing cameras and sign-in sheets, maybe we should go back to talking about protecting the chains. Maybe we can use blocks similar to the indoor range to hide the chains. Maybe we can hang the plates on posts instead of chains and it might be easier to protect the posts. The club has the cash to make improvements - I'm just brainstorming what can be done at the 100 that doesn't turn the BoD into a bunch of babysitters for jerk members.
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Lax atmosphere is one thing, but morons damaging the steel every week is unsustainable. Some miscreants need to be identified and tossed, pour encourager les autres.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
There is a difference between hitting the chain ant not noticing vs. leaving the plate hanging by one chain and not reporting it.
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Is there a well known mechanism for reporting damagelike that?

I drive a truck full of tools and parts, so whenever I find it in that condition, I just fix it.

I have never seen a sign at the 100 with instructions for reporting damage. Not saying it isnt a good idea, just wouldnt know who to tell or how, if I wasnt on here.

I would rather see some minor things slide than have more rules. But then agsin, Im not in charge of maintaing the place.
 
Mr. Brownstone said:
Is there a well known mechanism for reporting damagelike that?

I drive a truck full of tools and parts, so whenever I find it in that condition, I just fix it.

I have never seen a sign at the 100 with instructions for reporting damage. Not saying it isnt a good idea, just wouldnt know who to tell or how, if I wasnt on here.

I would rather see some minor things slide than have more rules. But then agsin, Im not in charge of maintaing the place.
Click to expand...
There is no sign stating that at the 100, but there was one recently put up on the indoor range to that effect within the last couple months. It has the number (or email) to call if you did it or noticed it.

That appears to be the result of a specific incident at the indoor range. I looked last week at the spot where the plate rack at the 25 yard range was and I did not see anything with similar instructions.
 
ddeck22 said:
There is no sign stating that at the 100, but there was one recently put up on the indoor range to that effect within the last couple months. It has the number (or email) to call if you did it or noticed it.

That appears to be the result of a specific incident at the indoor range. I looked last week at the spot where the plate rack at the 25 yard range was and I did not see anything with similar instructions.
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I haven’t been in a few months, and it was months before that on account of being so busy. I guess I just dont understand people who don’t leave it better than they found it.
 
kalash said:
This is exactly what I'm trying to avoid: becoming a fudd club with ROs and "good ol' boys" cliques. I already had a run-in with one of those at Harvard and I wasn't a fan of that experience.



I'm just trying to highlight problems with some of these suggestions because there are many.

I really think that we should remember that the main appeal of HSC is its lax atmosphere. Instead of discussing cameras and sign-in sheets, maybe we should go back to talking about protecting the chains. Maybe we can use blocks similar to the indoor range to hide the chains. Maybe we can hang the plates on posts instead of chains and it might be easier to protect the posts. The club has the cash to make improvements - I'm just brainstorming what can be done at the 100 that doesn't turn the BoD into a bunch of babysitters for jerk members.
Click to expand...
I know this will never happen, but at a range I used to belong to everyone brought their own steel. Railroad ties were set into the ground, and you had to post the steel with an angled bracket on a 2x4. Every member had to take a steel safety quiz and plates were provided for purchase at the club. I don’t think this could happen at HSC, due to no range officers checking peoples steel, but it would be one solution to the jackwagons that purposely knock the plates down.
 
It’s a never ending battle you just have to take it as it comes and realize with close to 3,000 members there’s some jamokes . Ten years dealing with the range and I’ve learned one thing, there’s always a**h***s that will destroy shit no matter what you do or say. So don’t get angry, and if you catch someone doing shit intentionally talk to them or take their plate down and report them , otherwise it’s always a mystery because we see the damage after it’s already happened.
We don’t let people bring their own steel because mostly people are dumb and do goofy shit like shoot a 50bmg at 100yds ..also if you e ever seen what people shoot at you’d realize allowing them to bring their own may be hazardous.
See you guys tomorrow at 8 I’d like to try to be done by noon so we don’t roast.
 
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Rob Boudrie said:
The cameras at Hopkinton were used to solve the great lost brass bag mystery. Someone on NES was mourning the loss of his favorite brass bag (a really nice cloth one). We traced the bag from when that shooter left it downrange, to when another shooter moved it back to the table under the shelter, to a club volunteer on cleanup duty picking it up for the lost and found and finally arranged for its return.

Suppose someone puts multiple holes in the ceiling of the indoor range and the club uses logs/cameras so they can track down the person to have a friendly chat to see if they are a jerk or in need of a marksmanship improvement plan? Is that police state or protecting club property? And what if electronic logging systems not only assure that only paid members can access the ranges but also show the club what people who are unclear on the concept of annual dues still try to use the club?

Cameras/access control are a completely separate issue from ROs. I know of some decision makers who both support those but have an "over my dead body" reaction to ROs. Being able to track down damage via camera can reduce the call for ROs and attended hours only.
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Are you a member of HSC?
 
Greg said:
Sounds good, never knew you were a member.
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it is indeed good to know, hopkinton is a good club. for me it is about an equal time to drive to either one, so, harvard wins hands down. :)

is there anyone here who is a member of the reading club? i am really interested about their 600yds range, but so far can't find anyone who is actually a member there, most people i know only get there as guests.
 
paul73 said:
it is indeed good to know, hopkinton is a good club. for me it is about an equal time to drive to either one, so, harvard wins hands down. :)

is there anyone here who is a member of the reading club? i am really interested about their 600yds range, but so far can't find anyone who is actually a member there, most people i know only get there as guests.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure @Broccoli Iglesias is
 
Im still amazed thar HSC is allowing steel on the 100. They were full FUDD doom and gloom about that when I was a regular.
 
Dench said:
At the time they were convinced ricochets would be the end of times.
Click to expand...
They're still convinced that .22LR out of a rifle will ricochet off the 25 yard plates. Not from a handgun though, even though there's only maybe 100fps difference in speed. That and the other excuse I heard from the previous president is that someone might see you shooting a .22LR rifle and assume that all rifles are ok, which is a ridiculous argument.
 
kalash said:
They're still convinced that .22LR out of a rifle will ricochet off the 25 yard plates. Not from a handgun though, even though there's only maybe 100fps difference in speed. That and the other excuse I heard from the previous president is that someone might see you shooting a .22LR rifle and assume that all rifles are ok, which is a ridiculous argument.
Click to expand...
They were making the same bozo distinction comparing the old plate ranges which were pistol only to the 100 gong I mention.

Fudds will fudd
 
I don't know if a .22 rifle would knock down a plate at 25 yards or bounce off but a .22 handgun won't reliably knock them down. It doesn't matter anymore because the plate rack is gone.
 

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