Rob Boudrie
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Crap like this is how clubs end up with what appear to be silly rules banning using objects as targets.
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Harvard Sportsmen's Club
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Rob Boudrie
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Actually, Harvard has a gate to the main road but it's not on the network - someone would have to go out to it with a laptop.
As to cameras == fudd - separate and independent issue.
The only thing keeping track of who comes and goes is the gate camera. Shit happens, but thing is I was there this afternoon it was fine.
Rob Boudrie
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The cards in individually numbered and unless it's an incredibly primitive system, there should be a log.
From what I recall, they've gone through the gates logs in the past when certain incidents had occurred.
I don’t think this issue deserves such an escalation, but to send it out in the weekly presidential email would make sense.
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Unless only a single person entered during the whole day, the log won't tell you anything.
You would be correct. It does not.
gerrycaruso
NES Member
This shit will continue if ignored. Most members follow the rules, but a few won't even walk their trash a few feet to the dumpster.
The reality is that you will always have a few people who have no respect for club property. So the question is whether you think it's better to a) turn the club into a police state with cameras, sign-in sheets, etc (what's next, ROs?), or b) if it's better to just deal with occasional damage and trash but keep the club "free".
I'm solidly in camp (b) - the club has a reputation for not having a ton of overbearing rules. Then again I'm not the one cleaning up (although I volunteer my time in other ways every year).
I'm solidly in camp (b) - the club has a reputation for not having a ton of overbearing rules. Then again I'm not the one cleaning up (although I volunteer my time in other ways every year).
There is definitely an in-between. Logs and ROs are a pain in the ass and not needed, but I'm not at all opposed to a few cameras so that they have a method of investigation and can kick out the a**h***s.
Rob Boudrie
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The cameras at Hopkinton were used to solve the great lost brass bag mystery. Someone on NES was mourning the loss of his favorite brass bag (a really nice cloth one). We traced the bag from when that shooter left it downrange, to when another shooter moved it back to the table under the shelter, to a club volunteer on cleanup duty picking it up for the lost and found and finally arranged for its return.
Suppose someone puts multiple holes in the ceiling of the indoor range and the club uses logs/cameras so they can track down the person to have a friendly chat to see if they are a jerk or in need of a marksmanship improvement plan? Is that police state or protecting club property? And what if electronic logging systems not only assure that only paid members can access the ranges but also show the club what people who are unclear on the concept of annual dues still try to use the club?
Cameras/access control are a completely separate issue from ROs. I know of some decision makers who both support those but have an "over my dead body" reaction to ROs. Being able to track down damage via camera can reduce the call for ROs and attended hours only.
Suppose someone puts multiple holes in the ceiling of the indoor range and the club uses logs/cameras so they can track down the person to have a friendly chat to see if they are a jerk or in need of a marksmanship improvement plan? Is that police state or protecting club property? And what if electronic logging systems not only assure that only paid members can access the ranges but also show the club what people who are unclear on the concept of annual dues still try to use the club?
Cameras/access control are a completely separate issue from ROs. I know of some decision makers who both support those but have an "over my dead body" reaction to ROs. Being able to track down damage via camera can reduce the call for ROs and attended hours only.
I'm pretty sure that cameras have been used at the club in the past, although I believe there aren't any permanent installations (except for the one at the gate). I could be wrong.
Rob Boudrie
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The gate camera was added after vandalism to the gate which was pretty much certainly from an outside agitator.
Isn't there a game camera at the back 40 range, mounted to the one of the support poles for the roof thingy? Maybe it is only used for animal monitoring?
Mesatchornug
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good eyes. there are a handful of game cams around he club, used by certain range chairs where they see benefit.
then it may be a fair idea to place a couple at 100yds as well.
Eagle eye over here lol
Well that explains how you shoot so much better than me
Mesatchornug
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Don't be so hard on yourself.
His guns are all scared they'll be next if they don't behave.
Just picked up 10+ blown up soda bottles at the 100yd. By the looks of it, the person who left this trash is a bad shot. Lots of .223 sized holes grazing these bottles. Be better and clean your trash up, especially if you can’t shoot worth a damn.
Mesatchornug
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Thank you for helping keep our club better than you found it
There are more sophisticated cameras elsewhere. After a particular incident, I was contacted based on the gate camera/logs. I had noticed what happened but there was no contact information to tell anyone. Cameras were added and there is now a sign indicating that if you see anything, you should report it immediately.
Based on the plate rack situation, I believe more cameras will be placed around.
that same situation repeats on the 100yds every other week when (probably same) assh@le shoots down upper links. i have nothing against having cameras to be in place to track vandalism.
And what happens if the board calls whoever was caught on camera shooting the chains and that person says "sorry, I was sighting in my rifle and it shot high"? Or "it was already broken when I got there"?
AHM
NES Member
Stay hydrated. Usually it's not a big damned deal,
but this weekend will be an exception.
Choices have consequences.
This isn't rocket surgery; it doesn't require geometric logic.
I'm pretty sure that if my club's CRO saw that,
he'd be using the log to contact all of the old-timers
who were on-site that day to ask if they saw anyone
shooting at soda bottles.
And there's a pretty good chance he'd figure out who did it,
and nip it in the bud.
It had better not happen again.
'the right to shoot down chains shall not be infringed'? is that the point you`re making?
as i`ve lost track of what your point was.
Based on what I saw, a one time miss is OK, it happens. But if you do it more than once, it's clear there is intent to cause damage. From what I saw, it wasn't just a one time miss, there were multiple shots way off target. Either the person did it on purpose, or there was a major malfunction. This was not at the 100 yard range.
But, for all the range chair knows, without cameras, everyone can just say, "It wasn't me." And who do you believe?
Definitely a fine line that the board and range chairs have to walk.
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it is more than clear.
red circles - it was all done in one day, after i secured the plate back - upper links had no dings yet. it has to be one or two individuals only as it does not happen all the time, and (mostly) does not happen during winter.
also note how chain mid section has no dings at all. @ssholes.
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At first I was assuming it was someone who’s a shitty shot. But the fact that there’s no hits further down the chain has me thinking otherwise
