Harvard Sportsmen's Club

Rob Boudrie said:
It would be interesting to do some testing on the bullet deflection concern. Unlike optics, angle of incident does not equal angle of reflection with ballistic projectiles. A round hitting a hard surface is most likely going to deflect at a shallow angle.

It "no issue" with someone familiar with the sufficient doping to keep the rounds on the berm, but the concern could be for someone who uses a 100 yard zero on the 300 and hits the ground midway downrange.
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If the ground and projectile were rigid, uniform surfaces, they'd get pretty close...

rogersmithiii said:

Practical Ballistics for 22LR: 50-200 Yards

We measured muzzle velocity and bullet drop for six different .22 LR loads with a 16-inch barrel from 50 yards to 200 yards.
www.luckygunner.com

30-55 inches of drop? It's like lobbing a football pass!
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Your experience with distance is showing.

For reference, here's a sample graph of .308WIN to 1000 yds - considered by some to be the entrance to "long range." You'll note they're seeing similar drop in the mid-400 yd area.
308ballistics1000yards.jpg
 
paul73 said:
there is no issue with ballistics. it relies upon forces of gravity that were relatively stable in the eternity known to us.
i really cannot say more about it. my 22lr 100yds dope is 1.8mrad. 200 is 6.9. 300 is 13.1mrad.

it is less than 2 full revolutions of the elevation dial and most turrets got it clearly marked up to 2 revolutions. it is not an issue at all.
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Yes, apologies for not being more clear. The issue for many is not ballistics, because as you stated we all know the dope of our rifles and scope adjustments needed. I am confident in my own abilities, dope and known hold overs to put rounds on target safely with all my rifles at 100, 200, 300 as I'm sure you and many more are.

The issue is people who do not have this information, do not care for this information, or want to "walk the shots on target" are the ones who poop in the punch bowl for everyone. A round escaping the range is a huge issue, liability, danger to life and the danger to status of the club.

5.56, .308, .30-06 and many more do not have as big (or really any significant amount, depending on loads) of a drop between those distances therefore there is much less concern about rounds hitting the dirt and bouncing.
 
ddeck22 said:
It does require a 200 yard walk 😜

I did notice on Monday that the new plate’s bolt got pushed through and someone put some wire up to hold it in place. I had a bolt but no nut to fix it. I put one in my car for next time.
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Gun clubs with 100+ yd ranges should have a golf cart behind the firing line. Think of the elderly and overweight! Sometimes I'll spend more time walking than shooting if I'm confirming zero at 200yd.
 
puška m70 said:
Gun clubs with 100+ yd ranges should have a golf cart behind the firing line. Think of the elderly and overweight! Sometimes I'll spend more time walking than shooting if I'm confirming zero at 200yd.
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Harvard has a road to get to the targets at the 200 and 300 yd ranges. For the 100, someone would have to build a bridge :)
 
CulperJr said:
The issue is people who do not have this information
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i seriously doubt that reasoning also, as i shoot there regularly enough, and is yet to see anyone who is not proficient with rifles.
all in all the amount of drop reason is no good reason. for that reason we can forbid any shooting there at all as it is possible for someone to show up there with a full auto or binary trigger and start shooting over the berm. anything is possible.

a 300blk drop at 300yds is 8ft. i saw people shooting it there fine. etc.
 
We've experienced rounds hitting the backstop on the 65 from the 200 while on the 65 in the middle of an Appleseed ... whoever was on the 200 that day was ballistically challenged.

At the angle for the 22 along with the walking it on target concept, I could see a concern of projectiles dropping right into the 65.
 
paul73 said:
i seriously doubt that reasoning also, as i shoot there regularly enough, and is yet to see anyone who is not proficient with rifles.
all in all the amount of drop reason is no good reason. for that reason we can forbid any shooting there at all as it is possible for someone to show up there with a full auto or binary trigger and start shooting over the berm. anything is possible.

a 300blk drop at 300yds is 8ft. i saw people shooting it there fine. etc.
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Agree to disagree then. I'll finish by stating if you've spent a few outings at the 100 yd range, you'll see enough stupidity and disregard for the facilities to last you a life time. Basically, these people exist which is one reason I suspect .22LR is not allowed at the 200/300
 
Mesatchornug said:
sounds like volunteer hours ;)

if only there were a side entrance, sized for automobiles...
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Maybe next time I'll bring my bicycle to get out to the targets at the 100, although with the missing plank now, that might send me into the swamp :p
 
ddeck22 said:
Maybe next time I'll bring my bicycle to get out to the targets at the 100, although with the missing plank now, that might send me into the swamp :p
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maybe Grounds crew has a suitable piece of lumber, some deck screws and a drill/driver?

You know about the side entrance, right? I promise, it's not like the pool on the roof.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxiwqleE9Do
 
Mesatchornug said:
maybe Grounds crew has a suitable piece of lumber, some deck screws and a drill/driver?

You know about the side entrance, right? I promise, it's not like the pool on the roof.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxiwqleE9Do
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm aware of the side entrance. It's usually locked (at least last time I looked it was) so not conducive to driving through.

I was going to shoot a note to Mark about it
 
paul73 said:
how high is the berm at 200?
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vicorjh said:
I don't know, it would be a guess at the moment. Much lower than the 300/65 backstop ... that one is really high.
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Sunset tomorrow is at about 16:30. I'm already planning to be there shortly after that.

If anybody wants to cut off work early, we can meet at the 200 yd firing line. I'll bring Dunks, a tape measure, and a laser rangefinder. I know a handful of ways we can answer this pretty definitively.
 
Mesatchornug said:
Sunset tomorrow is at about 16:30. I'm already planning to be there shortly after that.

If anybody wants to cut off work early, we can meet at the 200 yd firing line. I'll bring Dunks, a tape measure, and a laser rangefinder. I know a handful of ways we can answer this pretty definitively.
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i wish i could, sorry, no for tomorrow. but if you are serious - it would be great to know for sure.
i still think it is kinda unlikely to get such a 22lr curve from 200 firing lane, to go over that berm and end up within 8ft height into the range behind it, but, who knows.
such a math needs correct numbers to be sure of.
 
Mesatchornug said:
Sunset tomorrow is at about 16:30. I'm already planning to be there shortly after that.

If anybody wants to cut off work early, we can meet at the 200 yd firing line. I'll bring Dunks, a tape measure, and a laser rangefinder. I know a handful of ways we can answer this pretty definitively.
Click to expand...

Tentatively yes. I have access to a Leica Disto S910 which will do the angles/range/maths out to 1000ft automagically that I can bring, as well.
 
rogersmithiii said:

Practical Ballistics for 22LR: 50-200 Yards

We measured muzzle velocity and bullet drop for six different .22 LR loads with a 16-inch barrel from 50 yards to 200 yards.
www.luckygunner.com

30-55 inches of drop? It's like lobbing a football pass!
Click to expand...
So? I used to shoot 5.56 out to 600 yards. Take a look at a ballistics calculator and see what the drop is for 5.56 at 600 yards.
 
Mesatchornug said:
Sunset tomorrow is at about 16:30. I'm already planning to be there shortly after that.

If anybody wants to cut off work early, we can meet at the 200 yd firing line. I'll bring Dunks, a tape measure, and a laser rangefinder. I know a handful of ways we can answer this pretty definitively.
Click to expand...
I climbed a lot of the berms on Easter last year when I explored the club grounds. Didn't measure them though so looking forward to your results.
 
I can't tell you how much I hate the "someone might do something bad so no one should be allowed to do it" argument. It's literally gun control in a nutshell - there's no difference between "some idiot might misuse a .22 rifle and shoot over the berm so no one should be allowed to shoot .22 rifles" and "some idiot might misuse an AR and shoot someone so no one should be allowed to shoot ARs".

I don't know about you but I'm perfectly capable of putting on my big boy pants and figuring out .22 ballistics and the appropriate holdovers at distance. Btw those same pants also allow me to figure out not to blast 25y plates with .30-06 and yet .22 rifles still aren't allowed there :rolleyes:
 
centerfire bullets ricocheting off the ground is a very realistic and dangerous threat. I think folks apply that same logic to rimfire, but my question would be is there a realistic threat in a soft 40gr projectile going roughly 8-900fps at point if impact with grass/dirt 150yds away, and then richoceting enough to go another 60-70yds plus clear a 20ish ft berm through a tree line and cause damage to something/someone in the 65yd range? Idk...

My hypothesis is that going over the 200yd berm through the trees into the 65yd range via a skipped shot is unrealistic, but would require further investigation to know for sure. The risk of forgetting to rezero your turret after shooting out to 300+ and sending one clear over the 200yd berm is more realistic. One could make the case that its the same for centerfire, but for folks who only shoot at Harvard and have access to max 300yds (which I imagine would be most of the users), the elevation adjustment difference on a centerfire rifle between 300 and back down to 200, even if they forgot to adjust their scope, would still put them in the berm. The solution to this is simple, although possibly not easily feasible...build a taller 200yd berm.

For the 300yd half, I don't see the issue unless folks are pointing their gun in an unsafe direction, which is an entirely different discussion.
 
Well, I brought the laser but it was way too dark to get an accurate measurement. The initial shot of the 200 yard berm is ~14.5 ft. Barely could see the bottom or the top at dusk so will remeasure when there's more daylight. Didn't measure the 300 for the same reason.
 
vicorjh said:
Well, I brought the laser but it was way too dark to get an accurate measurement. The initial shot of the 200 yard berm is ~14.5 ft. Barely could see the bottom or the top at dusk so will remeasure when there's more daylight. Didn't measure the 300 for the same reason.
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I was late. Sorry I didn't catch you.

I'll be at breakfast Sunday. Happy to try again, then. Bonus: there'll be sunlight.
 


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