centermass181
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Head Space and Timing
- Thread starter centermass181
- Start date
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Ok, it's not good to laugh at as someone could of gotten hurt, but it is funny.
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2007
- Messages
- 538
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- 29
F-Troop
There has been a quick change barrel kit available for years now that has fixed headspace....I've often marvelled at the fact that it hasn't been adopted by the US military.
We under-fund our small arms programs terribly, it's a real shame.
We under-fund our small arms programs terribly, it's a real shame.
Something looks fishy about that video, .50 cal is a high charge round. Dont you think if it was in fact a full charge combat round there would have been a much louder report and a little more gustoe when the barrel seperated?
F
Finalygotabeltfed
Someone better be shoving a rod down that barrel to make sure its clear.
F
Finalygotabeltfed
That looked about right. It wasn't loud because much less pressure was built up due to the barrel not being secured. All the pressure dissipated in the receiver rather than down the bore.
Dench
NES Member
yep, ive seen them with other NATO armies.
the swedish army had M2's mounted on their APCs with the quick change barrels. its basically like changing out a giant size SAW or m240b barrel. much better then the current ones my unit had.
From what I hear, they're finally working on it. Frankly, I don't see it as a good replacement for operator training.
The Army has taken Headspace/Timing of the Ma Deuce seriously lately, though.
Dench
NES Member
i think its a excellent replacement for operator training. headspace and timing would never be a issue again, and the time to train on how do to it correctly would be used on other training. not to mention the risk of damaging the weapon system or its operator in the case of a mistake while doing the task.
the last thing i would be interested in doing is having to change a .50 barrel out, which is already a pain in the ass by itself, then do all the headspace and timing BS while in a combat situation. (although that would be rare i would think.)
also, my old unit had M2's in its inventory. i can only think of 2 soldiers out of about 80-90 that knew how to use the weapon correctly. i was not one of them.
A couple of my troops were HMMWV Gunners for a tour in Iraq, escorting convoys. They got into a bunch of fire fights. From what they say, they NEVER changed a barrel in a fire fight. You don't have TIME, and you lose track of time. Remember, 45 minutes is a LONG firefight these days.
Dench
NES Member
i understand its incredibly rare to have a situation were you have to change a .50 barrel in a fire fight, but thats not my point.
the point i was trying to make is there is much better equipment and solutions available, and the point you were seeming to make (correct me if im wrong) is good training is all thats needed to makeup for out dated equipment.
The US Army recently contracted to begin replacement of the current .50 caliber (M2) with the M312 - eliminates headspace and timing issues completely and takes the weight of the platform down to about half of what it currently is.
Or so I read a while back, don't know if this ever came to be.
Or so I read a while back, don't know if this ever came to be.
Ah, yes.
My point was the opposite direction of the same thing.
Making equipment "idiot proof" is a poor subsitute for good training, which is exactly the reasoning behind this.
See, I'm all for updated equipment. What I am against is new equipment just to replace the proper training in the first damned place.
And, yes, it happens much more than you know.
Dench
NES Member
ohhh, ok so i see where back on the "lets be vauge, and confusing" boat.
so according to you headspace and timing isnt an issue with good training. also according to you changing out .50 barrels happens "much more" then i know.
ok, so changing out a .50 barrel in the middle of a firefight, then headspace and timing it is ok, because hell, when the entire crew gets killed while trying to put the barrel on correctly its no big deal apparently. we can just write on their death certificates that they were highly trained in the weapon system thats outdated and difficult to change barrels out with.
all the training in the world does not justify keeping outdated weapons systems in service. the new barrels go on and come off like m249 barrels. zero effort, zero brainpower and its done extremely fast.
Dench, I'm not going to waste my time replying to that.
You're full of it, you know it.
Simple answer is what you'll get.
They change barels much les than you know. The Ma Deuce needs few changes, believe it or not. M1152 HMMWV's aren't carrying all that much ammo anyways (AMHIK) these days, or in the past 5 years, though there's always exceptions to EVERY rule.
Give me the statistics of how many troops have been killed due to changing barrels or due to a fried M2 barrel, or give up false logic. (Hint, I'll wager the number is near ZERO.)
Funny that I know a bunch of guys that can change barrels correctly, reasonably quick.
And, I'm the LAST guy that turns away NEW equipment.
I also am pretty damned disgusted with the current trend of trying to make equipment "Idiot proof" (most units don't have trucks with standard transmissions any more, too much trouble to teach the new kids how to drive it). That has fallen over to weapons, and why we are spending money to improve a decent weapon, instead of replacing the CRAP that doesn't work (I am NO fan of the M249 SAW, though I kind of like the M240 series), I'll NEVER know.
Yup, I'll accuse them of "improving" equipment instead of just training them right in the first place. (I'm all for the new equipment, just HATE the reasoning WHY.) When they get the new equipment, they probably won't train them well on that either (they usually don't).
Remember, you're out now, I'm not, and I've been in for years. I'd say I have a vested interest in having decent stuff.
I'd also say I have a bad taste in my mouth over some of the "new improved" equipment we get many times. many times, the older stuff worked better, or was more reliable.
You're full of it, you know it.
Simple answer is what you'll get.
They change barels much les than you know. The Ma Deuce needs few changes, believe it or not. M1152 HMMWV's aren't carrying all that much ammo anyways (AMHIK) these days, or in the past 5 years, though there's always exceptions to EVERY rule.
Give me the statistics of how many troops have been killed due to changing barrels or due to a fried M2 barrel, or give up false logic. (Hint, I'll wager the number is near ZERO.)
Funny that I know a bunch of guys that can change barrels correctly, reasonably quick.
And, I'm the LAST guy that turns away NEW equipment.
I also am pretty damned disgusted with the current trend of trying to make equipment "Idiot proof" (most units don't have trucks with standard transmissions any more, too much trouble to teach the new kids how to drive it). That has fallen over to weapons, and why we are spending money to improve a decent weapon, instead of replacing the CRAP that doesn't work (I am NO fan of the M249 SAW, though I kind of like the M240 series), I'll NEVER know.
Yup, I'll accuse them of "improving" equipment instead of just training them right in the first place. (I'm all for the new equipment, just HATE the reasoning WHY.) When they get the new equipment, they probably won't train them well on that either (they usually don't).
Remember, you're out now, I'm not, and I've been in for years. I'd say I have a vested interest in having decent stuff.
I'd also say I have a bad taste in my mouth over some of the "new improved" equipment we get many times. many times, the older stuff worked better, or was more reliable.
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
