How many of you carry tactical knives while carrying your firearm?

[Grimlock]

If it doesn't work for you it might work for someone else. Maybe you have not found the right knife yet Mctrinket. Some people choose not to have that option. Like a gun, I'd rather have a knife as backup and not need it then need it and not have it. Also, just ordered the Emerson QCQ 15 from the momma don't know funds. It's a mix of recurve blade with a tanto point.

 

[MichaelJR]

Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. Maybe FOR YOU it's the only viable defenseive folder, but a broad statement like that shows a lack of knowledge on the topic. The Civilian was designed for someone with zero knife skills. Yes, I am fully aware that you are going to flame me for saying so......

No not at all, I won't flame for that, you make an excellent point. I'll defend my statement in that 98% of people out there have zero legitimate edged weapon training. Knife training is pretty serious, not easy to be effective, and rather redundant in the age of the pistol. An untrained hand with a tanto is about as effective as a 10 year old with a whiffleball bat in an actual physical encounter knife vs knife. If you're trained, absolutely I agree, a knife can be wielded and made quite effective. However, the majority here are too busy shooting than to fudge around with ninja weapons, such as myself. I would much rather be proficient with my handguns than to be able to slice someone up properly with the hope that they don't have projectile weapons. For the inexperienced knife used, the civilian can prove to be a seriously effective defensive tool. The gel test results alone speak for themselves, the knife is insanely effective on soft tissue. It is limited to slashing, but unless you're trained, anything but slashing could result in your own demise. The kerambit design has been killing the eff out of people for quite some time, and for a good reason...it works.

I absolutely agree with you. Completely. However, I'm just speaking for the general populous. I would never advise someone with no formal training to feel comfortably prepared for a fight with a folding convex grind benchmade. If that's the case, the only thing standing between the benchmade carrying super ninja and a coffin is lady luck, and that's on a good day.

I just don't want to spread bs that someone has a 75%+ chance to walk out of a serious confrontation with a regular blade with zero formal training in one piece. They've got about a 20% chance. I'd be okay with saying you have at least a 45% chance slashing away with a civilian however. The damage caused by that evil shaped SOB is pretty severe.

 

[Bill Nance]

No.

I don't carry one because if I carry a knife as a weapon, it's little extra trouble to carry a .380, which is a far more efficient weapon with a lot more versatility.

As a tool, there are specific instances when I carry a knife. Usually I carry a multi-tool. I've actually been in a fight vs. a knife, unarmed. My experience is that absent a LOT more training than I have or am interested in getting, I DON'T want to get into a knife fight. -I have a couple of scars to prove it.

Any fight where a knife would come out would be a fight where pepper-spray, a taser or other weapon (including a gun) would come out and be one Hell of a lot more effective with less risk to me than a knife.

As a simple tool, they're great. As a weapon, they're what you happen to have vs, what you wish you had. I have yet to meet anyone for whom I have the slightest respect who would say you're better off with a knife than a gun in circumstances almost any of us are likely to encounter.

COUNTERING a knife attack is a whole different story.

 

[MichaelJR]

No.

I don't carry one because if I carry a knife as a weapon, it's little extra trouble to carry a .380, which is a far more efficient weapon with a lot more versatility.

As a tool, there are specific instances when I carry a knife. Usually I carry a multi-tool. I've actually been in a fight vs. a knife, unarmed. My experience is that absent a LOT more training than I have or am interested in getting, I DON'T want to get into a knife fight. -I have a couple of scars to prove it.

Any fight where a knife would come out would be a fight where pepper-spray, a taser or other weapon (including a gun) would come out and be one Hell of a lot more effective with less risk to me than a knife.

As a simple tool, they're great. As a weapon, they're what you happen to have vs, what you wish you had. I have yet to meet anyone for whom I have the slightest respect who would say you're better off with a knife than a gun in circumstances almost any of us are likely to encounter.

COUNTERING a knife attack is a whole different story.

This, spoken for absolute truth.

Anyone who thinks they can jump into a knife fight because they have a knife has a rude awakening rearing it's ugly head around the corner.

 

[SkydiveGuy]

No not at all, I won't flame for that, you make an excellent point. I'll defend my statement in that 98% of people out there have zero legitimate edged weapon training. Knife training is pretty serious, not easy to be effective, and rather redundant in the age of the pistol. An untrained hand with a tanto is about as effective as a 10 year old with a whiffleball bat in an actual physical encounter knife vs knife. If you're trained, absolutely I agree, a knife can be wielded and made quite effective. However, the majority here are too busy shooting than to fudge around with ninja weapons, such as myself. I would much rather be proficient with my handguns than to be able to slice someone up properly with the hope that they don't have projectile weapons. For the inexperienced knife used, the civilian can prove to be a seriously effective defensive tool. The gel test results alone speak for themselves, the knife is almost insanely effective on soft tissue. It is limited to slashing, but unless you're trained, anything but slashing could result in your own demise. The kerambit design has been killing the eff out of people for quite some time, and for a good reason...it works.

I absolutely agree with you. Completely. However, I'm just speaking for the general populous. I would never advise someone with no formal training to feel comfortably prepared for a fight with a folding convex grind benchmade. If that's the case, the only thing standing between the benchmade carrying super ninja and a coffin is lady luck, and that's on a good day.

I just don't want to spread bs that someone has a 75%+ chance to walk out of a serious confrontation with a regular blade with zero formal training in one piece. They've got about a 20% chance. I'd be okay with saying you have at least a 45% chance slashing away with a civilian however. The damage caused by that evil shaped SOB is pretty severe.

Sorry, but your original statement said "The only viable self defense folder is..." now your are saying "for most people".

Either way its a stupid argument. This is like saying "The only viable car to drive is a Toyota Camry" and then trying to back it up by saying that most people aren't trained properly to drive anything else.

Just because something works for you and your closed mind doesn't mean its the de facto standard.

Thinking like this usually ends up with some stupid lobbyist pushing a law to protect us from ourselves.

 

[Terminator03]

A lock in a sock can kill a person long before the knife-wielding aggressor even got close enough to use it. I share your incredulity with your position.

Why are you attacking me? Can't we have differing opinions on here?

No way man! Once you've been here for a bit you will realize that you can have a differing opinion, but you can't really post it if it doesn't fall into the majority opinion here.

 

[Dirtypacman]

Simple Spyderco Native 2 - its a great little daily carry.

 

[Terminator03]

No not at all, I won't flame for that, you make an excellent point. I'll defend my statement in that 98% of people out there have zero legitimate edged weapon training. Knife training is pretty serious, not easy to be effective, and rather redundant in the age of the pistol. An untrained hand with a tanto is about as effective as a 10 year old with a whiffleball bat in an actual physical encounter knife vs knife. If you're trained, absolutely I agree, a knife can be wielded and made quite effective. However, the majority here are too busy shooting than to fudge around with ninja weapons, such as myself. I would much rather be proficient with my handguns than to be able to slice someone up properly with the hope that they don't have projectile weapons. For the inexperienced knife used, the civilian can prove to be a seriously effective defensive tool. The gel test results alone speak for themselves, the knife is almost insanely effective on soft tissue. It is limited to slashing, but unless you're trained, anything but slashing could result in your own demise. The kerambit design has been killing the eff out of people for quite some time, and for a good reason...it works.

I absolutely agree with you. Completely. However, I'm just speaking for the general populous. I would never advise someone with no formal training to feel comfortably prepared for a fight with a folding convex grind benchmade. If that's the case, the only thing standing between the benchmade carrying super ninja and a coffin is lady luck, and that's on a good day.

I just don't want to spread bs that someone has a 75%+ chance to walk out of a serious confrontation with a regular blade with zero formal training in one piece. They've got about a 20% chance. I'd be okay with saying you have at least a 45% chance slashing away with a civilian however. The damage caused by that evil shaped SOB is pretty severe.

^very well said, Michael! I agree with you 100% with the caveat that even for someone untrained, the knife is still slightly better than being completely unarmed, especially if the person has no fighting skill, or agility to outrun an attacker. This is sort of a conundrum, though, because generally anyone who has had some type of hand to hand combat training can apply some of that with a knife since the principles are pretty similar with the knife being an extension of your arm.

 

[Terminator03]

Sorry, but your original statement said "The only viable self defense folder is..." now your are saying "for most people".

Either way its a stupid argument. This is like saying "The only viable car to drive is a Toyota Camry" and then trying to back it up by saying that most people aren't trained properly to drive anything else.

Just because something works for you and your closed mind doesn't mean its the de facto standard.

Thinking like this usually ends up with some stupid lobbyist pushing a law to protect us from ourselves.

There was no backpedaling at all in what he said! He just took more time to explain his view, is all. He also explained why he thought that someone with little or no training would be best served to carry that particular model of knife. Not sure why you see this as backpedaling. His opinion is legitimate in that most people (I would even say 99.9%) have never been in a knife fight, nor have they had any formal training in how to effectively deploy a knife in a defensive role. That being said, I still stand by the fact that even untrained, a knife still gives you a slight edge (no pun intended!).

 

[mark056]

I carry some kind of folding knife all the time. Frequently it is a cheapie, purchased for under $20.00. The reason is that I am prone to lose or misplace these knives which is why I do not carry expensive pens (I gave away an inherited set of silver Cross Pens, for example) or wear expensive watches. (Personally I think they go to the "Land of unmatched socks). I have a really nice Benchmade that usually sits in my box on my dresser for that reason.

The primary reason for carrying knife is as a tool, but it is also in the back of my mind that it could be used as a last ditch weapon. I have no inclination to become engaged in knife fights, and I realize that there is some good training these days with regard to learning how to use the knife defensively. My intent is to eventually get some training in that area..."just in case."

 

[Remsport Mfg]

I carry a spring assist knife all the time even when I don't carry a firearm.
I most situations a knife is better to defend yourself with in close quarters, even against someone with a gun.
Most confrontations happen within three feet and most adversaries are not very skilled and would not expect something like a bump and slash defense. This is much harder to do with a gun a knife works better when you are that close.
I also must add that everyone that is going to carry a knife should get some basic defense knife training.

 

[MichaelJR]

Sorry, but your original statement said "The only viable self defense folder is..." now your are saying "for most people".

Either way its a stupid argument. This is like saying "The only viable car to drive is a Toyota Camry" and then trying to back it up by saying that most people aren't trained properly to drive anything else.

Just because something works for you and your closed mind doesn't mean its the de facto standard.

Thinking like this usually ends up with some stupid lobbyist pushing a law to protect us from ourselves.

Not back peddling. I'm just saying, when things go south, the average person would be slashing wildly in a knife fight trying to stay alive, not concentrating on complex defensive and offensive stances and motions. Same as a gun fight. Unless someone is training damn hard, just as we see with police related shootings, occasionally you'll hear about 30+ rounds going off and MAYBE one effective hit. It's not because they are that awful of a shot, they might be great for all we know, but insert panic and fear into the equation, and your marksmanship means nada, because you're firing for your life, not for groups. In this case, you're better off with the most effective, reliable, and user friendly platform. However, again, I'm speaking for the average person that carries. Most people don't take any serious "run and gun" classes. They will fire fast and aim roughly if they are in a physical confrontation, it's human nature in fight or flight mode to go ape-sh*t. Anyone can have the completely unrealistic notion that "oh if I'm attacked suddenly, I can easily make headshots". Like I stated, there are plenty of cops out there that got into a gun fight and ended up reloading twice without making a single hit. Panic. You're going to be confused if you're in a situation like that. If you're going to be slashing, why not have something specifically designed as a slashing weapon?



I do carry a knife always. I could use it as a backup last ditch weapon, but there's no way I would feel confident with carrying just a knife as a primary defensive tool. Gun>everything. Knife vs knife, both people are walking away pretty effed up, and that's if they walk away at all. 100%, if you have a knife, and he has a knife, you're getting stabbed, and all the fancy training in the world isn't going to stop that. Search around for videos or articles of real knife vs knife fights. They don't look ninjaish, they look like two wild animals fighting, fast and brutal and with absolutely zero technique.


Now this isn't to discredit your statement. In the hands of someone that knows what he/she is doing, like remsport said, it can be damn effective. I agree with you both completely. I'm just speaking for myself when I say that I don't know the first thing about knife fighting and would probably end up pretty shredded if I ended up in one.

 

[glockstar]

I always carry a knife. Not only do i consider it a lasst ditch weapon but i use it as a tool on almost a daily basis. I find the smith and wesson S.W.A.T to be very good quality and a very aggressive blade and with a price of around $50.00 you really cant ask for more.

 

[P-14]

I carry a Kershaw Onion, because you never know when you have to cut someone out of a haz/mat suit.

And, I have.

 

[whatluck]

The loser of a knifefight dies on the spot.

The winner of a knifefight dies on the way to the hospital.

Even if you do survive, do you want some scumbag bleeding into your open wounds?

Fight someone with a knife and you WILL get cut. The question is where you'll take the most damage. In the ribs and the face or in the hands? You may very well have to lose some fingers to save your throat.

 

[DrRansom]

... the average person would be slashing wildly in a knife fight trying to stay alive, not concentrating on complex defensive and offensive stances and motions...

While this is true, this is an effect of the same adrenaline that I mentioned earlier will render any normal person's folding knife no better than a rock in a life-or-death fight. Trained operators right now have found that deploying folders is extremely difficult in combat. Why any civilians thinks they can where SF guys can't, I don't know. Back to the quoted statement, while people can take amazing amounts of slashing damage and still live, stabbing on the other hand can be fatal even for shallow and seemingly inconsequential hits.

...Gun>everything. Knife vs knife, both people are walking away pretty effed up, and that's if they walk away at all. 100%, if you have a knife, and he has a knife, you're getting stabbed, and all the fancy training in the world isn't going to stop that.

No, gun !> everything. Consider:

- with a gun you have X chances to poke a small hole in somebody. If you fail, which is not uncommon, the gun is a rock.

- guns are not the effective in close quarters, especially in grappling situations. knives are _very_ effective in CQB.

- guns are prone to malfunctions and user errors, especially under stress.

- where guns have X chances, knives have practically unlimited chances.

- guns are slower to deploy than knives. (most of the time, i'll say)

- where guns have a maximum entry hole size of about .45, the smallest knives have a hole poking diameter of about .5, and go steadily up from there. Further, once a bullet stops, damage is done - but knives can be and frequently are continually moved around in the wound channel, doing further damage and making the wound more likely to bleed the victim out (and considerably harder to repair).

- Again, consider the existence of the 21 foot rule, and what it represents. First, it means that drawing a blade is faster than a gun within that radius. Additionally, that the threat is considered immediately lethal. Why? Average people can kill with a blade faster than an officer can draw and subdue. Also, the LEOs hate blades because their vests, effective against bullets, aren't that reliable against blades.

- guns require training. knives don't. anyone can poke a lethal hole in someone...the same cannot be said for guns.

- Google gun vs. knife lethality. You might be surprised what you find.

Anyhow, I'll leave it at that. But, parting question - if an armored officer is trained to consider anyone within 21 feet of them a lethal threat with a blade, and studies show and an average person can draw and engage (and kill) a trained LEO in that distance before they can draw their gun, where does that leave the average person?

 

[ShadeWPI]

1) Yes. I carry a folding knive whenever I am in a location that allows knives, even if I am not carrying a firearm.
2) I carry it in a back pocket on my left side, that allows it to be accessed with my left hand easily and my right hand with a small effort.
3) It is a spring assist lock-blade with a frame lock and a "thumb-button" on the blade to allow single hand opening/closing if my other hand is being used to hold something.
4) The knife is more of a tool than a weapon and sees almost daily use as a tool
5) I do practice firing a handgun with a knife in my off hand, this is done by holding the knife in a reverse grip and pressing the front of the trigger guard against the wrist of my of hand. I practice this same grip with a flashlight.

Given an option, I would much rather have an expanded baton or tonfa than the small foling knife I carry in a close quarters fight, but both of those draw more attention and are less useful as daily tools than a knife.

 

[drgrant]

I carry a Kershaw Clash every single day . Much like my gun, I consider it like car keys or a wallet - I barely realize it's there, but know when it isn't...I think Kershaw still builds dollar-for-dollar, some of the best knives out there. I like my Clash because it has a launcher tab on the back of the blade which makes it quick to employ and works even if something goes wrong with the spring. It's shave your face sharp and holds an edge. Not bad for $30.00...

This...

I have a few really nice Kershaws (Leek, Scallion, and a ZT 0350-CB composite blade) but my EDC ends up being the "Black Clash" I have... because it's cheap and it is easy to keep an edge on, and I don't grimace about using it for marginal tasks.

-Mike

 

[Mike_]

Aside from my spyderco - I always have my leatherman squirt on my keychain. Best NES karma ever...

 

[Smash05]

Ah, good old Prac Tac...the bumhole of Bladeforums. Mall ninja central.

HAHA, always good for a few laughs.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Where can I go to school to learn how to be a knife fighting ninja like everyone else?

 

[n1bsbri]

Where can I go to school to learn how to be a knife fighting ninja like everyone else?

Classes running nightly in South Providence. Come on down.

 

[banned]

Classes running nightly in South Providence. Come on down.

I tried to find classes in tactical "lock in a sock" but was unable to locate one.

I would like to receive some edged fighting training from someone who really knows their shit. (mall ninjas need not apply).

 

[cevtv]

I would like to receive some edged fighting training from someone who really knows their shit. (mall ninjas need not apply).

Go to the Michael Janich Martial Blade Concepts class put on by NEShooters. WELL worth the time and money.

His training is NOT "knife fighting"....... Why does everytime someone mentions self defense with a knife it instantly becomes "knife fighting". He teaches fighting with a knife. Big difference. His system is intended to teach you how to defend against various types of attacks using a knife to stop the threat.

 

[MichaelJR]

Where can I go to school to learn how to be a knife fighting ninja like everyone else?

Lowell.

 

[Supermoto]

How you fight is more important than what you fight with. Self defense does not work, offense does

 

[spider murphy]

I tried to find classes in tactical "lock in a sock" but was unable to locate one.

For $50.00 I'll instruct you on the fine art of lock in a sock fighting(sock and lock not included); for an additional $20.00 Ill throw in a couple of classes on belt buckle jutsu.

 

[Smash05]

Rules: If you are fighting fair, you are fighting to lose.

 

[Rider]

I would like to receive some edged fighting training from someone who really knows their shit. (mall ninjas need not apply).

You have to do what that guy on Doomsday Preppers did and hire a former Mossad member to personally train you on a nearby rooftop.

 

[Terminator03]

Go to the Michael Janich Martial Blade Concepts class put on by NEShooters. WELL worth the time and money.

His training is NOT "knife fighting"....... Why does everytime someone mentions self defense with a knife it instantly becomes "knife fighting". He teaches fighting with a knife. Big difference. His system is intended to teach you how to defend against various types of attacks using a knife to stop the threat.

That sounds like a cool class. When, and where does he usually offer it? This is the first I have heard of these type of classes somewhat locally. Generally you have to fly somewhere for that type of training. Every martial system that I have ever studied had some elements of defending against a knife wielding attacker, but none focused on offensive use of a knife, which I feel is more critical to surviving a real street encounter than trying to defend yourself.