How will the new gun laws effect LEO's if passed??

[Len-2A Training]

Does that apply to secret squirrel Reserve Deputy Sheriffs, with the proper "credentials"?

No since they do not have powers of arrest and IIRC they'd have to be academy trained prior to having the power to arrest someone.

There is much question/confusion in the LE community right now on this part of the law.

I should be doubly qualified under this law, but like many lack proper "retired" credentials, plus most LEOs would claim that Constables aren't really "police" (they love to substitute that word for the term "law enforcement officer" that is in LEOSA) even though we have statutory arrest powers. I'd call it risky business right now until the goons at the State analyze it further and come out with some guidelines (which will likely not agree with the black letter of the law).

 

[DispositionMatrix]

See Glik v. Cuniffe on recording Audio and video of public officials in public areas
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glik_v._Cunniffe. At least in MA

Unfortunately it appears some MA police forces are undaunted by Glik. We are now in the age of that state apparently being less concerned with abiding by court rulings.

However, we are now seeing qualified immunity, on which the police based part of their initial defense, not being universally upheld: http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Court-cops-don-t-have-immunity-for-killer-raid-5711350.php

 

[hillman]

I wonder if this applies to "police commissioners", or as we know them, the board of selectmen.

 

[Squire]

Well the Leo's are clearly firearm experts. They carry guns so the must be the expert authority. They drive cars so they must be Professional Nascar drivers. And they use computers so they must be programers. They frequent Dunkin Donuts so they must Culinary Chefs. They use radios so they must be Ham Radio licensed. And so forth....

They are part of Big Government, so are experts by decree, as members of the ruling class.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I wonder if this applies to "police commissioners", or as we know them, the board of selectmen.

Interesting question. Many years ago our selectman had police badges made with police commissioner on them, IDs and one drove around with a blue light under his front seat (no permit for same).

The definition of "who is a LEO" in MA has been a great subject of debate for many years and I've been part of it. Most police chiefs will deny Sheriff Deputies, COs, Constables, Harbormasters, Animal Control Officers, etc. If they use the criteria of who has attended a police academy AND has power of arrest (sworn in as LEO) that would be a big help. But this is a work in progress and those making the rules (CMRs) have no respect for anyone who isn't a muni or State Trooper.

 

[albinogorilla]

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/agencies/dcjis/key-changes-to-the-massachusetts-gun-laws-august-2014.pdf

page 2, 5 bullets down (no pun intended)

 

[hillman]

Interesting question. Many years ago our selectman had police badges made with police commissioner on them, IDs and one drove around with a blue light under his front seat (no permit for same).

The definition of "who is a LEO" in MA has been a great subject of debate for many years and I've been part of it. Most police chiefs will deny Sheriff Deputies, COs, Constables, Harbormasters, Animal Control Officers, etc. If they use the criteria of who has attended a police academy AND has power of arrest (sworn in as LEO) that would be a big help. But this is a work in progress and those making the rules (CMRs) have no respect for anyone who isn't a muni or State Trooper.

It's always fun to figure out which part of the bottom of the barrel you belong in. Law enforcement officer should be fairly easy to define. One who enforces law. Not which academy did you go to, are you full or part time, can you write speeding tickets, will you get a pension, are you in the union...

 

[mike1960]

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/agencies/d...ugust-2014.pdf

page 2, 5 bullets down (no pun intended)

It would be interesting to see what the instruction from the DCJIS will be concerning the following. I added the bold to the font.


SECTION 51. Paragraph (f) of said section 131 of said chapter 140, as so appearing, is hereby amended by striking out the second paragraph and inserting in place thereof the following paragraph:- Any applicant or holder aggrieved by a denial, revocation, suspension or restriction placed on a license, unless a hearing has previously been held pursuant to chapter 209A, may, within either 90 days after receiving notice of the denial, revocation or suspension or within 90 days after the expiration of the time limit during which the licensing authority shall respond to the applicant or, in the case of a restriction, any time after a restriction is placed on the license pursuant to this section, file a petition to obtain judicial review in the district court having jurisdiction in the city or town in which the applicant filed the application or in which the license was issued. If after a hearing a justice of the court finds that there was no reasonable ground for denying, suspending, revoking or restricting the license and that the petitioner is not prohibited by law from possessing a license, the justice may order a license to be issued or reinstated to the petitioner or may order the licensing authority to remove certain restrictions placed on the license.

 

[Len-2A Training]

It's always fun to figure out which part of the bottom of the barrel you belong in. Law enforcement officer should be fairly easy to define. One who enforces law. Not which academy did you go to, are you full or part time, can you write speeding tickets, will you get a pension, are you in the union...

When I was appointed, the police academy was just getting off the ground as a requirement and many officers had never attended one during their entire career. I recall my friend (late chief) telling me that when he returned from the Korean War he was hired as a police officer . . . given a badge and gun and told "he was 3rd shift"!! No training whatsoever. This was typical.

It was somewhere around 1980ish where they made the MCJTC Academy (or equivalent) a requirement BEFORE having police powers to actually work as a cop. I think I was working 3-4 years before I could go to the academy. I was not required to go but wanted to do so at first opportunity. It was a hassle to attend for me as I worked in Maynard to ~5:30PM and had to grab a bite to eat and make it to Foxboro (site of MCJTC academy back then) for class 2 nights a week for 6 months, but I loved it!

So making a requirement of having attended a police academy makes sense and will smoke out those that paid $50-100 to some sheriff for their credentials, selectmen masquerading as police commissioners, etc. Of course having said that, Constables as a group would also be out, even though we have statutory arrest powers and actually make arrests as part of the job (with no recognized training available).

 

[Chevy 2 65]

gotta love it.

Reduces the firearms application fee to $25 for retired law enforcement officers;


 Exempts law enforcement officers from the assault weapon and large capacity feeding device
ban;

 

[hillman]

When I was appointed, the police academy was just getting off the ground as a requirement and many officers had never attended one during their entire career. I recall my friend (late chief) telling me that when he returned from the Korean War he was hired as a police officer . . . given a badge and gun and told "he was 3rd shift"!! No training whatsoever. This was typical.

It was somewhere around 1980ish where they made the MCJTC Academy (or equivalent) a requirement BEFORE having police powers to actually work as a cop. I think I was working 3-4 years before I could go to the academy. I was not required to go but wanted to do so at first opportunity. It was a hassle to attend for me as I worked in Maynard to ~5:30PM and had to grab a bite to eat and make it to Foxboro (site of MCJTC academy back then) for class 2 nights a week for 6 months, but I loved it!

So making a requirement of having attended a police academy makes sense and will smoke out those that paid $50-100 to some sheriff for their credentials, selectmen masquerading as police commissioners, etc. Of course having said that, Constables as a group would also be out, even though we have statutory arrest powers and actually make arrests as part of the job (with no recognized training available).

But then the question is, which academy counts? Does R/I? Someone in a position defined above, but who did attend an academy in a previous job? Ex, but not "retired" leo?

Law enforcement are not a separate class of citizens here, they are fifteen separate classes of citizens.

I worked for a year before my chief sent me to the academy. He just had me take the brown book exam, handed me a gun with one magazine and a badge, and maybe a week of riding with another officer. This was six or seven years ago.

 

[Len-2A Training]

But then the question is, which academy counts? Does R/I? Someone in a position defined above, but who did attend an academy in a previous job? Ex, but not "retired" leo?

Law enforcement are not a separate class of citizens here, they are fifteen separate classes of citizens.

That's why I stated that it will be interesting to see what EOPS comes up with as qualifying criteria in the CMR they write. I'm pretty sure that it will be a very narrow group of people, knowing who some of the players are who will be writing this.

 

[hillman]

That's why I stated that it will be interesting to see what EOPS comes up with as qualifying criteria in the CMR they write. I'm pretty sure that it will be a very narrow group of people, knowing who some of the players are who will be writing this.

I can't for the life of me understand why my email to the EOPS requesting clarification wasn't returned...

 

[Len-2A Training]

I can't for the life of me understand why my email to the EOPS requesting clarification wasn't returned...

The current people there do not believe that they are accountable to the mere peons who pay taxes in the state. Don't expect anything useful from them and you won't be disappointed.

 

[Kisspik002]

It was my understanding that constables, reserve "paid for" sheriffs, even correctional officers will not qualify. They will still be held to the AWB. From what I was told its due to not having powers of arrest. Reserve police are OK.

 

[Len-2A Training]

It was my understanding that constables, reserve "paid for" sheriffs, even correctional officers will not qualify. They will still be held to the AWB. From what I was told its due to not having powers of arrest. Reserve police are OK.

I don't doubt your conclusion. However there are numerous citations in MGL that specifically give Constables powers of arrest. It's just that police won't recognize it as they don't want competition.

For starters read these sections of law and get back to us:

MGL C. 90 S. 1 - gives authority to Constables for enforcement of MV law - Never will be issued a ticket book and a waste of time but the authority is there.
MGL C. 56 S. 57 - specifically gives authority to Constables to oversee elections and arrest anyone interfering with an election. A Constable in a MetroWest town used to work the polls for many years . . . eventually the police chief took the detail away from him and he raised a stink (he didn't win).
MGL C. 41 S. 95 - gives authority to Constables to arrest on warrants issued and directed to them. DOR and Family Courts issue these all the time to Constables. I've done a couple but have no desire to ever do any more even though the money is good.

 

[hillman]

It was my understanding that constables, reserve "paid for" sheriffs, even correctional officers will not qualify. They will still be held to the AWB. From what I was told its due to not having powers of arrest. Reserve police are OK.

Wait, I don't have the authority to make the arrests I make? Then I'm getting paid crap for kidnapping.

 

[Kisspik002]

I don't doubt the MGLs. I was unaware that constables had statutory powers of arrest. I have NEVER heard of a constable making one.

I guess there will have to be clarification as to what qualifies as a LEO. Should be interesting. Until then if you qualify and can buy all the goodies, go for it.

 

[hillman]

Well if EOPS refuses to clarify or define, then they can't really say who ISN'T law enforcement, right? Right? Problem solved, no need to thank me.

 

[hillman]

I don't doubt the MGLs. I was unaware that constables had statutory powers of arrest. I have NEVER heard of a constable making one.

I guess there will have to be clarification as to what qualifies as a LEO. Should be interesting. Until then if you qualify and can buy all the goodies, go for it.

Google Bobby Brown and Loomis...

 

[Kisspik002]

Well if EOPS refuses to clarify or define, then they can't really say who ISN'T law enforcement, right? Right? Problem solved, no need to thank me.

I agree if they fail to define it then more people benefit.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I don't doubt the MGLs. I was unaware that constables had statutory powers of arrest. I have NEVER heard of a constable making one.

I guess there will have to be clarification as to what qualifies as a LEO. Should be interesting. Until then if you qualify and can buy all the goodies, go for it.

Most people (including LEOs) are unaware of Constables power. They don't teach the history of LE in the academies. The first LEOs in the US were Constables, taken from Olde England's laws. It wasn't until the early 1900s that police departments were formed, unionized and pushed Constables out of the way ever since then.

Well if EOPS refuses to clarify or define, then they can't really say who ISN'T law enforcement, right? Right? Problem solved, no need to thank me.

Google Bobby Brown and Loomis...

I've known Jerry Loomis for >35 years.

I agree if they fail to define it then more people benefit.

Oh they will define it . . . as narrow as possible and in direct violation of the black letter of the law, you can take that to the bank. Those that make these rules (GCAB, FRB, EOPS) also have no clue what Constables are and do not have any respect for any part of LE except FT POs and FT Troopers. I've had this conversation both on the phone and at a GCAB meeting where the chair stated that chiefs who work only part-time in some of those small W. MA villages should NOT be entitled to LEOSA rights at all once they retire. Let's just say that it was a heated debate and GCAB stood their ground (even forbidding Fed LEOs from qualifying in MA under LEOSA). That's how deep the hatred is for anyone else but them.

 

[hillman]

Oh they will define it . . . as narrow as possible and in direct violation of the black letter of the law, you can take that to the bank. Those that make these rules (GCAB, FRB, EOPS) also have no clue what Constables are and do not have any respect for any part of LE except FT POs and FT Troopers. I've had this conversation both on the phone and at a GCAB meeting where the chair stated that chiefs who work only part-time in some of those small W. MA villages should NOT be entitled to LEOSA rights at all once they retire. Let's just say that it was a heated debate and GCAB stood their ground (even forbidding Fed LEOs from qualifying in MA under LEOSA). That's how deep the hatred is for anyone else but them.

Having been an officer in one of those part time chief towns, I am more laughing at the absurdity of the situation than expecting anything different. I used to love watching the troopers come in like they were top dogs...until the local EPO would walk in. It was like watching the postman trying to avoid a rabid dog, because everyone knows EPOs are crazy.

I can say that because he was always the first one to come back me up.

 

[hillman]

I emailed EOPSinfo on the 11th asking where I might find a definition of Law Enforcement Officer as pertains to the new law. I just got this reply this morning.

Good morning,



To best answer your question, please call our Firearms Record Bureau at (617) 660-4782



Thanks,

Cheri

Before I sent the email to EOPSinfo, I called that same number, and was told to contact EOPSinfo...

 

[Len-2A Training]

I emailed EOPSinfo on the 11th asking where I might find a definition of Law Enforcement Officer as pertains to the new law. I just got this reply this morning.

Good morning,



To best answer your question, please call our Firearms Record Bureau at (617) 660-4782



Thanks,

Cheri

Before I sent the email to EOPSinfo, I called that same number, and was told to contact EOPSinfo...

Welcome to the MA circle-jerk!!

 

[Serapis]

I emailed EOPSinfo on the 11th asking where I might find a definition of Law Enforcement Officer as pertains to the new law. I just got this reply this morning.

Good morning,



To best answer your question, please call our Firearms Record Bureau at (617) 660-4782



Thanks,

Cheri

Before I sent the email to EOPSinfo, I called that same number, and was told to contact EOPSinfo...

Typical

 

[Stock weld]

No since they do not have powers of arrest and IIRC they'd have to be academy trained prior to having the power to arrest someone.

There is much question/confusion in the LE community right now on this part of the law.

I should be doubly qualified under this law, but like many lack proper "retired" credentials, plus most LEOs would claim that Constables aren't really "police" (they love to substitute that word for the term "law enforcement officer" that is in LEOSA) even though we have statutory arrest powers. I'd call it risky business right now until the goons at the State analyze it further and come out with some guidelines (which will likely not agree with the black letter of the law).

Not exactly true. MA Deputy Sheriffs do have statutory power of arrest wether or not they have been academy trained. There is NOWHERE in MA law that requires a Deputy Sheriff to attend a police academy . The law you are speaking of is a requirement for "Police" officers only. Do I think one should? Yes. The Sheriff of a county basically can deputize anybody he wants to, this goes back to old common law. The deputy sheriff of a county is basically a common law peace officer and has very similar authority to a police officer.

Deputy Sheriffs have a the right to arrest for all misdemeanors amounting to "breach of peace" and arrest for all felonies and can serve civil process and warrants, they cannot however arrest for misdemeanors that do not amount to a breach of peace. For example Driving without a license is an arrestable offense if the police officer witnesses this in presence, this is not however a breach of the peace but a person committing assault and battery would be committing breach of peace so a deputy could for example arrest that person. A breach of peace is a condition and not an idividual law itself, common sense or "common law" dictates a breach of peace, this is why deputies in essence are common law peace officers. Also in contrast to popular belief among LEO in MA they can cite for motor vehicle violation. Now don't think I'm condoning those hack reserve deputy positions, but there are plenty of well trained deputies that work inside the jails, BCI, K-9 etc full time that can benefit from the new law.

Refer to:
Comm vs Howe 1989 http://masscases.com/cases/sjc/405/405mass332.html
Comm vs Baez 1997 http://masscases.com/cases/app/42/42massappct565.html

 

[SigSlayer]

Its been a few months, Any new info on who is defined as LEO under the new law?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Its been a few months, Any new info on who is defined as LEO under the new law?

No word on anything so far. No word on any new CMRs but I'm sure that they are drafting them in a vacuum.

I'm sure they will define it as narrow as humanly possible.

 

[Coyote33]

No word on anything so far. No word on any new CMRs but I'm sure that they are drafting them in a vacuum.

I'm sure they will define it as narrow as humanly possible.

Maybe time for a call in to Hank Phillipi Ryan. Need to get some "SUNSHINE" on those rats.

If you don't ask, they won't answer. If you ask, and they lie, even better if it is on camera.