I thought Remington 870 was the definition of reliability?

[CIby1012]

Guess not.

I bout a 18inch 870 express HD 12g. This shotgun was brand new and from the factory with the extended magazine tube. After brining the gun home, I noticed that after loading the 5th shell, there was a little extra resistance, then the 6th was the same. After cycling the action, the first 2 shells would run fine, then the remaining 4 would just slide around in the mag tube, and in order for me to load them, I had to point the gun in the air in order to let gravity feed them from the mag tube into the receiver. The follower was getting stuck between the mag tube and extension tube somehow.

I called Remington about it, and they sent me a new mag extension system, this did not help. In fact the new mag extension prevented me from loading the 5th and 6th shells all together.

I called Remington again to tell them this and they decided that I needed to send the shotgun in for repair. At this point Im confused because I know it’s a problem with the mag tube itself, (the distal end of it must have been cut wrong and is leaving a gap between it and the extension tube, which is where the follower is getting caught) I ask them if they are going to replace the mag tube/receiver (because as far as I know its one piece of steel) and they just said “they’ll fix it”

So I send it in, with a detailed description of what is wrong, clearly stating that we had tried replacing the mag extension without success. I wait 3 weeks for it to return, meanwhile I’m using a .40 handgun as my HD weapon, not the ideal IMO. 3 Weeks pass and the gun is returned to me, I bought a few accessories and was excited to finally have the classic Remington HD shotgun protecting my home again. I read the repair description and all it said was “refit mag extension tube.” And the problem is still their, nothing had changed…..

They didn’t even try loading the mag to see if it had worked, just took it off, put it back on and shipped it back. This is bullshit as far as Im concerned. I know that inorder for this gun to work, the mag tube needs to be replaced. And at this point I am questioning the reliability of this firearm all together.

I am going to ask them for a replacement shotgun because my confidence in this on is gone. If they wont do that, then Im going to ask that the mag tube/receiver be replaced. If they don’t do that, then Im asking for a refund and taking my business to Mossberg.

Anyone ells have experience with this?

Thanks in advance (Sorry about the long post, I guess I wanted to vent)

 

[atmay]

Clean it. I had the same problem with my new 870 until I disassembled the mag tube and ran my 12ga boresnake through it. The follower was hanging up on some schmutz left over from the factory.


You should always strip, clean, desgrease, and relube all new firearms.


ETA: Just to be 100% clear, I had this EXACT same problem. I have an 870 with a 4+2 extended tube, the first two would feed fine, then it would hang up.

 

[Jose]

1), like atmay says, did you thoroughly clean and lubricate the gun first? If not, why not?

2) All companies make manufacturing errors. ALL OF THEM. Doubting the collective reliability of the Remington 870 with the results of a sample of one is just dumb.

 

[pipmaster1971]

1), like atmay says, did you thoroughly clean and lubricate the gun first? If not, why not?

2) All companies make manufacturing errors. ALL OF THEM. Doubting the collective reliability of the Remington 870 with the results of a sample of one is just dumb.

Exactly. Providing they fix or replace it then it's inconvenient but not a problem.

 

[Brian5582]

Yes clean it then if all else fails try going to the dealer you bought it from they might have more luck getting them to fix it. It sucks you could be without it again but if you want a working gun and don't want to have to pay for it to get fixed at a smith localy chances are its going back again. Try calling and going up the ladder a little.

 

[md2020]

So does it feel like the spring isn't powerful enough or that the slide/guide is binding in the tube? Do this happen w/ 2 3/4" or 3" shells?

I had an 870 for a while and it was awesome (mid 1980's).

Wilson Combat sells their own springs and followers ($12 + shipping) for Remington's w/ extended tubes.

Bummer that you are having issues. Terrible that you sent the thing in to them only to get it back with the same issues.

 

[CIby1012]

Whatever it is thats catching, its scraping the plastic off of the shells, they come out with deep marks on them.

I think the spring is fine, weve tryed 2 different ones.

And im not throwing out trust for whole 870 line , just this particular gun itself. (I cant have it jam on me in a HD situation)

 

[atmay]

Whatever it is thats catching, its scraping the plastic off of the shells, they come out with deep marks on them.

I think the spring is fine, weve tryed 2 different ones.

And im not throwing out trust for whole 870 line , just this particular gun itself. (I cant have it jam on me in a HD situation)

Did you clean it yet?

 

[md2020]

Is the lip of what holds the round in the tube have a burr on it? The thing you can depress to release the shell. (I think this is how it worked - it's been over 20 yrs since I had my 20 ga 870, LOL). That is the only thing I can think of that would even touch the side of the shell.

 

[Supermoto]

Do the 870 mag tubes have the dimples on them that the 11-87 do? When you add an extension, these need to be drilled out and cleaned up. There probably is a burr on the inside. Run a rag down the inside to see if it gets caught on anything

 

[Billy2]

I think its 590-A1 Time! If you get a jam just stick em!

 

[stinx]

The Express models are not in the same league as the Police/Military shotguns like the 870 Pmax etc. The express guns use lower grade parts and do not get subjected to the same quality checks as the LE/Military guns.:what Remington says about the differences between the Express and the Police:

REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LE DIVISION
Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns

The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market.
It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality.
All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences.
It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models.
Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.
While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police.
To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note that the vaunted aluminum trigger guard was actually POWDERED, COMPRESSED aluminum.
The polymer guard has proven to be just as good as the old aluminum guard and has some advantages.
For one, the polymer guard will bend, flex and return to usable shape, where the aluminum guard just bent and broke.

 

[bfm]

It took a while to find and was more expensive, but when I decided I wanted an 870, I looked around till I found a Police Magnum

 

[glostamon]

I think its 590-A1 Time! If you get a jam just stick em!

+1

 

[Conservativegirl]

.

 

[GSG]

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

That explains the timing/feed issues I had with one.

 

[exo]

Definitely agree with what others said with cleaning. Make sure it's thorough inside the magazine and extension tube. Also make sure the tube isn't over torqued, seems Remingon has a gorilla working on the assembly line sometimes.

I also swapped the plastic follower for an aluminum one, I don't think it's necessary but it's probably less likely to bind up too.

 

[Old Glory]

AIP Tactical makes awesome defensive shotguns using the 870. You can send one to them and they will replace the plastic and upgrade to Police Magnum parts.

http://www.aiptactical.com/HD_Duty.html

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

 

[CIby1012]

I've cleaned the inside of the Mag Tube, the Extension and the nut several times, and it is 100% smooth. Also Ive tried 2 different factory followers, springs, nuts and extensions and have tinkered with different torques on the fitting.

I sat down to try to figure out what was getting caught at what point in the tube, and it looks like the hang up happens when the follower transitions from the mag tube to the extension tube (jams at about 3/4 the length of the 5th shell). My guess is that the articulation between the two tubes leaves a gap that the follower is getting caught in. At this point I cant load a 5th shell, it feels like hitting a wall.

I could just operate the gun with 4 rounds and would never have to worry about reliability, however I bought the gun with the extension because I wanted the extra ammunition on board.

Im going to call the factory on Monday to ask for a replacement shotgun, I'll keep this thread updated with what happens.

 

[FPrice]

We can see the source of your "genius" off the right of this picture!

+1

 

[crazymjb]

Haven't had any issues with my 870 express

Mike

 

[swampy]

Customer service with Mossberg is even worse. I sent a shotgun back to have a simple repair done (action lock) and they sent my gun back supposedly repaired but with a different stock on it. I sent them a gun with a nice walnut stock with a fluted comb, pistol grip cap, 3 week old aftermarket recoil pad and the stock had been shortened and fit to me. The stock they put on it was made from some simulated wood product stained an unusual color. I couldn't even reach the trigger properly with it. They left the walnut grip on the slide. That thing was just ugly. It looked like a piece of walmart furniture. I went back and forth with Mossberg for months trying to get the right stock back. They confirmed the gun originally came from them with the walnut stock. They claimed the old stock must have been damaged or they wouldn't have removed it. A few months after this I went to the gun show at the Big E in Springfield and saw a guy with bucketfulls of Mossberg stocks. He had one that looked exactly like mine with the same non-Mossberg recoil pad on it, same pistolgrip cap, it appeared to have been shortened as mine was. He wanted $90 for it. I asked him if he worked for Mossberg and he wouldn't answer me. I was very tempted to take the stock and walk out. I called Mossberg again to ask of they let their repair staff take the parts they replace to resell and mentioned seeing what appeared to be my old stock at the show. They were very unfriendly and didn't give a crap about the problem.

I've never fired the shotgun after that because I feel they stole the soul of the gun from me. I burned the stock they put on it. I sold the forestock and put a cheapass plastic stock set on it but I won't use it. I also won't buy another Mossberg product...or pass up an opportunity to share my experience with anyone considering buying one.

Guess not.

I bout a 18inch 870 express HD 12g. This shotgun was brand new and from the factory with the extended magazine tube. After brining the gun home, I noticed that after loading the 5th shell, there was a little extra resistance, then the 6th was the same. After cycling the action, the first 2 shells would run fine, then the remaining 4 would just slide around in the mag tube, and in order for me to load them, I had to point the gun in the air in order to let gravity feed them from the mag tube into the receiver. The follower was getting stuck between the mag tube and extension tube somehow.

I called Remington about it, and they sent me a new mag extension system, this did not help. In fact the new mag extension prevented me from loading the 5th and 6th shells all together.

I called Remington again to tell them this and they decided that I needed to send the shotgun in for repair. At this point Im confused because I know it’s a problem with the mag tube itself, (the distal end of it must have been cut wrong and is leaving a gap between it and the extension tube, which is where the follower is getting caught) I ask them if they are going to replace the mag tube/receiver (because as far as I know its one piece of steel) and they just said “they’ll fix it”

So I send it in, with a detailed description of what is wrong, clearly stating that we had tried replacing the mag extension without success. I wait 3 weeks for it to return, meanwhile I’m using a .40 handgun as my HD weapon, not the ideal IMO. 3 Weeks pass and the gun is returned to me, I bought a few accessories and was excited to finally have the classic Remington HD shotgun protecting my home again. I read the repair description and all it said was “refit mag extension tube.” And the problem is still their, nothing had changed…..

They didn’t even try loading the mag to see if it had worked, just took it off, put it back on and shipped it back. This is bullshit as far as Im concerned. I know that inorder for this gun to work, the mag tube needs to be replaced. And at this point I am questioning the reliability of this firearm all together.

I am going to ask them for a replacement shotgun because my confidence in this on is gone. If they wont do that, then Im going to ask that the mag tube/receiver be replaced. If they don’t do that, then Im asking for a refund and taking my business to Mossberg.

Anyone ells have experience with this?

Thanks in advance (Sorry about the long post, I guess I wanted to vent)

 

[GSG]

For those reading this thread, putting mag extensions on shotgun tubes can be a felony depending on the date of manufacture.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-Shotgun-Capacity-Questiions-in-Massachusetts

I could just operate the gun with 4 rounds and would never have to worry about reliability, however I bought the gun with the extension because I wanted the extra ammunition on board.

If it doesn't work exactly as intended, you need to worry about reliability.

A few months after this I went to the gun show at the Big E in Springfield and saw a guy with bucketfulls of Mossberg stocks. He had one that looked exactly like mine with the same non-Mossberg recoil pad on it, same pistolgrip cap, it appeared to have been shortened as mine was. He wanted $90 for it. I asked him if he worked for Mossberg and he wouldn't answer me.

 

[exo]

For those reading this thread, putting mag extensions on shotgun tubes can be a felony depending on the date of manufacture.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-Shotgun-Capacity-Questiions-in-Massachusetts

The "can be" is dependent on a lot more than date of manufacture, but on an 870 it's a non-issue unless you only have an FID.

 

[atmay]

The "can be" is dependent on a lot more than date of manufacture, but on an 870 it's a non-issue unless you only have an FID.

The potential issue is possession of a post-ban LCFD. Pump-action firearms are exempt from magazine capacity/licensure issues.

 

[exo]

The potential issue is possession of a post-ban LCFD. Pump-action firearms are exempt from magazine capacity/licensure issues.

Gruh. My head hurts, and I hate MA. Let's get back to the core issue the OP is having though...

Could the tube extension get out of alignment with the primary magazine if it was torqued on too hard?

 

[atmay]

Gruh. My head hurts, and I hate MA. Let's get back to the core issue the OP is having though...

Could the tube extension get out of alignment with the primary magazine if it was torqued on too hard?

It doesn't seem like it would be possible to torque the extension down very hard, nor is there any need to.


OP, where are you located? I'm so perplexed by this I feel the need to actually look at it myself

 

[GSG]

on an 870 it's a non-issue unless you only have an FID.

Pump-action firearms are exempt from magazine capacity/licensure issues.

Both of these statements are unfortunately incorrect and are discussed in the thread that I linked to.

 

[Gonzo]

(Psssssst- Benelli, FTW)

 

[MassMark]

While the venerable 870 has indeed gained a perch on the pedestal of greatness, they are not immune from issues - especially now. I had a brand new 870 police that would disassemble itself while you were shooting it and that was in the 90's. Folks see the 870 HD on the wall, with the magazine extension and the cool finish and think they are getting a police-grade shotgun - they aren't. As was mentioned earlier, the 870 that most LEO's are issued and the one on the rack at your local FFL are two different animals...To top it off, Remington QC is in the shitter lately. If you doubt this - go take a look at a new Express. Take a breath and drop the new gun in hand giddyness and really look at it...They are sliding into the cellar. Anyone who catches me at the gun counter, ask me and I'll show you exactly what I mean... I wouldn't buy anything Remington - unless it was an old one...