If an FFL Has a Pre 8/1 AR Lower on His Books Still: Can He Transfer To Me??? Then Why the 8/1 Hysteria?

[Reptile]

If an FFL Has a Pre 8/1 AR Lower on His Books Still: Can He Transfer To Me??? Then Why the 8/1 Hysteria?
If it can still be transferred today, why were so many people in a panic to buy before 8/1???

- OR -

Does it have to have been on MY books before 8/1?

 

[matt2491]

FFLs cannot transfer AR lowers anymore under the new/current law, but they can "continue to sell shotguns and rifles so long as they are not otherwise prohibited in Massachusetts", per the EOPS memo released on 10/2/24. This would include any rifles built from 8/1 lowers.

 

[drgrant]

FFLs cannot transfer AR lowers anymore under the new/current law, but they can "continue to sell shotguns and rifles so long as they are not otherwise prohibited in Massachusetts", per the EOPS memo released on 10/2/24. This would include any rifles built from 8/1 lowers.

Lol I don't think you read into the shitty laws correctly. If it was on someones MA books on 8/1 its exempt from all the new bullshit. It's literally that simple, thats why there are still people with some stuff left.

@Reptile for the 30th time.... read the bold part above. And repeat it over and over again, until you get it.

 

[matt2491]

Careful with that information, drgrant. I'm an FFL and, along with several other dealers, we have been studying and dissecting every word, and that is not what we are understanding. AR lowers, 8/1 or not, can no longer be sold by a dealer in MA. Rifles built from said lowers however, still can be.

Ask CrackPot.

 

[KH56010]

Careful with that information, drgrant. I'm an FFL and, along with several other dealers, we have been studying and dissecting every word, and that is not what we are understanding. AR lowers, 8/1 or not, can no longer be sold by a dealer in MA. Rifles built from said lowers however, still can be.

Ask CrackPot.

Interesting, looks like you could tell all customers "If buying a stripped lower, you must bring all components needed to show that the lower is readily convertible into a rifle"

230 “Firearm”, a stun gun, pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, sawed-off shotgun, large capacity
231 firearm, assault-style firearm and machine gun, loaded or unloaded, which is designed to or may
232 readily be converted to expel a shot or bullet

 

[drgrant]

Careful with that information, drgrant. I'm an FFL and, along with several other dealers, we have been studying and dissecting every word, and that is not what we are understanding. AR lowers, 8/1 or not, can no longer be sold by a dealer in MA. Rifles built from said lowers however, still can be.

Ask CrackPot.

That's news to me, but if you read between the lines given the latter half of your statement "eg you can still sell an 8/1 rifle" that "receiver ban" is basically unenforceable anyways.

Not that it matters much anyways because theres only handfuls of the stuff left at this point.

 

[matt2491]

Bingo. You guys are getting the workaround. The only downside for the buyer is that, because the lowers are now rifles, they cannot be built into AR pistols... Not a huge detail but an important one.

 

[drgrant]

Bingo. You guys are getting the workaround. The only downside for the buyer is that, because the lowers are now rifles, they cannot be built into AR pistols... Not a huge detail but an important one.

Course there's probably still people rugsweeping 8/1 lowers regardless of whatever the states whimsical current interpretation is.

 

[Palladin]

don't worry...there's some dipshit on here selling $90 lowers for 2 Grand!!! you can snag one of those!!!

 

[MickeyD’s]

don't worry...there's some dipshit on here selling $90 lowers for 2 Grand!!! you can snag one of those!!!

Bingo , That’s the hysteria

People call it a free market, only sell for what people think it’s worth.

Bullshit it’s a restricted market and artificial pricing.

 

[drgrant]

Bingo , That’s the hysteria

People call it a free market, only sell for what people think it’s worth.

Bullshit it’s a restricted market and artificial pricing.

The fun thing is most of the horrible prices have been going on long before this law was ever passed so it's not really a great example.

It's also really only restricted in the sense that somebody has an inability to drive around the market. Obviously now it's considerably worse but frankly anybody still living here and worrying about this kind of thing is bigger problems than a gun being overpriced.

 

[Glockster30]

Bingo. You guys are getting the workaround. The only downside for the buyer is that, because the lowers are now rifles, they cannot be built into AR pistols... Not a huge detail but an important one.

Wasn't it hard to build an AR pistol under the old law due to trying to meet the 50-ounce limit, anyway?

 

[StevieP]

because the lowers are now rifles, they cannot be built into AR pistols..

lol

 

[drgrant]

Wasn't it hard to build an AR pistol under the old law due to trying to meet the 50-ounce limit, anyway?

The new law blew that all out of the water for most intents..... anything legally grandfathered on 8/1 in the state on that date is basically AWB exempt

 

[KH56010]

lol

This is why I would use the “readily convertible” definition. It appears to meets the MA definition for Rifle but not the Federal. So it could theoretically be sold as a stripped lower and still turned into a pistol.

 

[Individualist]

I don’t understand it all completely either. I just want to know is where can I get myself a Noveske lower in MA, preferably coated with magic ( o )( o ) sprinkles. I’m willing to pay top $1 dollar! Somebody, anybody?

 

[StevieP]

You can buy Anderson lowers here for about $50 or so, all day every day. ain't no thang

 

[milktree]

Careful with that information, drgrant. I'm an FFL and, along with several other dealers, we have been studying and dissecting every word, and that is not what we are understanding. AR lowers, 8/1 or not, can no longer be sold by a dealer in MA. Rifles built from said lowers however, still can be.

What's the distinction?

Is the problem that a lower is not a rifle or shotgun, and therefore not exempt from §123(o)?


- An AR lower is an "assault-style firearm"
- "assault-style firearms" that were in MA on 8/1 are exempt from all the §131M nonsense

 

[Glockster30]

The new law blew that all out of the water for most intents..... anything legally grandfathered on 8/1 in the state on that date is basically AWB exempt

Yes, I know which is why I mentioned under the old law in response to the FFL who said lowers are now rifles that can't be built into AR pistols under the new law. So, are you now saying if I have lowers in my possession prior to 8/1, which I do have, I can now build an AR pistol under the new law because the 50-ounce limit is no longer in effect?

 

[drgrant]

Yes, I know which is why I mentioned under the old law in response to the FFL who said lowers are now rifles that can't be built into AR pistols under the new law. So, are you now saying if I have lowers in my possession prior to 8/1, which I do have, I can now build an AR pistol under the new law because the 50-ounce limit is no longer in effect?

Yes. Be careful not to cross wires here because some of the stuff in this thread being discussed is about "dealer compliance issues" not per se about "mere lawful possession". As you probably already know there's a vast difference between the two things.

 

[KH56010]

What's the distinction?

Is the problem that a lower is not a rifle or shotgun, and therefore not exempt from §123(o)?


- An AR lower is an "assault-style firearm"
- "assault-style firearms" that were in MA on 8/1 are exempt from all the §131M nonsense

But for FFLS they are explicity allowed (according to the guidance) to sell "Firearms" on the approved roster and all legal to possess Rifles and Shotguns. There are no Assault Style Firearms on the roster. So it appears that you then have to make the argument that what your selling is a "rifle" as part of the "Firearm" definition. The only way I can see this is if it's built into clearly a rifle. Or sold alongside parts that make it "readily convertible" into a rifle. And once transferred, could then actually be built into a AR Pistol since it was never actually a rifle.

But this entire thread is just a fun thought experiment, as I imagine there's a stunningly small amount of 8/1 lowers for sale in FFL inventory and even if there is a dealer hoarding them, he probably wouldn't care at all about maintaining the ability to make them a pistol and would have no problem just making them a Preban Rifle.

 

[milktree]

But for FFLS they are explicity allowed (according to the guidance) to sell "Firearms" on the approved roster and all legal to possess Rifles and Shotguns. There are no Assault Style Firearms on the roster. So it appears that you then have to make the argument that what your selling is a "rifle" as part of the "Firearm" definition. The only way I can see this is if it's built into clearly a rifle. Or sold alongside parts that make it "readily convertible" into a rifle. And once transferred, could then actually be built into a AR Pistol since it was never actually a rifle.

But this entire thread is just a fun thought experiment, as I imagine there's a stunningly small amount of 8/1 lowers for sale in FFL inventory and even if there is a dealer hoarding them, he probably wouldn't care at all about maintaining the ability to make them a pistol and would have no problem just making them a Preban Rifle.

Or an FFL could build a raw lower as a pistol. that would make it "originally a pistol" or whatever the language is.

Then re-build it as a rifle.

As far as the feds are concerned, it's still "originally a pistol" and can be built into a pistol later.

As far as the state is concerned, it's a rifle, so can be sold under the guidance letter.

Win-win!

 

[Reptile]

I don’t understand it all completely either. I just want to know is where can I get myself a Noveske lower in MA, preferably coated with magic ( o )( o ) sprinkles. I’m willing to pay top $1 dollar! Somebody, anybody?

You can put a WTB ad in the classifieds.

Maybe somebody would sell on that they bought before 8/1.

If sold by FTF you don't even need to register until 2026.

Such a Noveske lower that is pre 8/1 might as well be worth one million dollars.

There may never be another in the next few years and it would priceless to own at any cost.

Also, depends on who you listen to about the law.

GOAL says post 7/21/16 lowers are illegal. Is the extra $999,500.00 to get a pre Healey so you can sleep at night?

Or would you rather wait 10 years for the SCOTUS and by that time have arthritis and 1/2 blind so you'd be unable to enjoy the rifle.

 

[MickeyD’s]

Good ole Rapetile

 

[Reptile]

Good ole Rapetile

Sorry, I'm not selling anymore!!!

I know what I got and I'm keeping it!!!

20 more years when I'm arthritic and crippled I'm selling.