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IIRC there were basically 2 cartridges with almost the same dimensions but different specs based off of the pressure and intended firearm use.Just saw this cartridge today (from an NES WTS ad), and it was the first I remember seeing it. I wonder how it compares with the .357 Sig.
7.65×21mm Parabellum - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
IIRC there were basically 2 cartridges with almost the same dimensions but different specs based off of the pressure and intended firearm use.
One for the Mauser one for the Tokarev.
This chambering has been around since the 1890s.
Considering it was largely replaced by 9mm, I can’t imagine it compares to .357sig in any way whatsoever.
ETA: according to what’s available for info on wikipedia, 357sig is anywhere from 25-50+% more powerful than 7.65x21
IIRC there were basically 2 cartridges with almost the same dimensions but different specs based off of the pressure and intended firearm use.
One for the Mauser one for the Tokarev.
I’ve heard of guys building single shots based off that or similar wildcats.I figured pressure would be the key thing in play here. I was wondering about the actual dimensions. I tried looking to see if there are any photo comparisons of the two, but came up empty. I wonder if the people who came up with the .357 Sig looked at that old cartridge at all.
On another note, it would be cool if some current company came out with a Tokarev chambering for a modern designed gun. Maybe Ruger could do their fake 5.7 gun in that cartridge. Aren't the Tokaravs pretty "available" (surplus?) for not a bad price?
Yes. I think Dillon makes a 10mm necked sown to 357 also.There's also the bigger 400 Corbon (I think that's the name), which is a .45 necked down to a .40.
I believe the early Luger pistols were chambered in the .30 Luger. It's an interesting firearm and ammo combination, but it's hardly a powerhouse (not that I will volunteer to be shot with one, of course).
This is fairly similar to 7.62x25, which was also replaced by a 9mm cartridge (9x18). The Tokarev round was generally lighter, faster, and had more energy than its German cousin.
ETA: both these rounds were developed based on the original Mauser chambering.
I believe the early Luger pistols were chambered in the .30 Luger. It's an interesting firearm and ammo combination, but it's hardly a powerhouse (not that I will volunteer to be shot with one, of course). The Ruger P89 was available with a .30 Luger conversion, which would probably be more of a collector item than a one-stop man-killer combination. With ammo prices as they were, it wouldn't make much sense economically to shoot .30 Luger vs. 9x19mm. Maybe in today's market, it would be a tie.
Obviously, the 7.65x21mm is 4mm shorter than the Tokarev (7.62x25mm) and the .30 Mauser (7.63x25mm). You can use either of the latter brass interchangeably, but Tokarev loads are higher pressure than the .30 Mauser. You can use .30 Mauser ammo in your TT33 and CZ52, but not 7.62x25mm ammo in your C96, etc.
My issue with the .357 SIG, is that it has such a short neck and getting adequate grip on the bullet can be a problem. You also need to use bullets with a straight profile to take full advantage of the limited neck contact.
Yes, it's quite common to still find surplus Tokarev ammo for sale. Odds are it's berdan-primed (hence, not very useful to reloaders) and it will probably split upon firing. Many cut down .223 Remington brass for Tokarev ammo, but make sure you use the proper shell holder. I figure, why bother as boxer-primed brass and ammo is in fairly decent supply.
Below: Surplus 7.63x25mm, .32-20 LSWC sized for Tokarev, .30 Carbine FMJ in 7.62x25mm