Justifiable use of deadly force regarding guns as opposed to knives.

[chiefsaj]

I'd be interested in hearing what folks think about the legal ramifications of the two.

Justifiable use of a gun in a self defense situation requires fear for life and, or serious bodily injury, to paraphrase. Yours, or someone elses.

I'm guessing the same would apply for using a knife, since both are forms of deadly force.

 

[IDPA Mike]

What about a bat?

 

[chiefsaj]

I know it may sound like a dumb question, I'm just contemplating the real world (practical) differences. As in, how it'd be viewed by the courts.

i.e., if you stabbed someone in a self defense situation, would you be looked at differently than if you used a gun. Or, would they play out similarly?

A bat is not likely something you'd be carrying for self defense. Unless you had huge pockets.

 

[45collector]

I know plenty of people that carry a baseball bat in their car. (None of them have an LTC however.)

 

[jasons]

Deadly force is deadly force. With that said, juries are made up of people, and people (at least in this state) tend to have moonbaterific views on guns and people who carry guns.

 

[MisterHappy]

A friend's late father was crossing the street, in a marked crosswalk.

A car zipped around the corner and nearly hit him.

His hand was in his pocket - he threw the contents at the car, as well as yelling some appropriate words.

He was arrested, and charged with assault with a deadly weapon ...as part of the contents was a closed swiss army knife.

The only "plus" in using a pig-sticker, as opposed to a gun, is that it's less killy, and will make a bit less kerfluffle on the 6:00 news.

 

[FSTC]

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/147970-Self-Defense-Jury-Instructions?highlight=self+jury

 

[warwickben]

Can you legally carry a knife in mass lol? You need a permit for pepper spray.

Heck I bet in mass the difference between self defense and murder is how many rounds you put in the guy/how many times you stab/how many hits with a bat.

 

[Wendell]

If you post on Glocktalk's GATE Self-Defense Forum, Massad Ayoob will answer your question.

 

[jasons]

If you post on Glocktalk's GATE Self-Defense Forum, Massad Ayoob will answer your question.

What does Ayoob know about the legal ramifications a self defense in MA?

 

[RKG]

Deadly force is deadly force. With that said, juries are made up of people, and people (at least in this state) tend to have moonbaterific views on guns and people who carry guns.

Those same folks don't do much better when it comes to edged weapons. Just ask Alexander Pring Wilson. http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/12/guilty_plea_in_2003_stabbing_death/

 

[chiefsaj]

x

 

[jasons]

.

 

[M1911]

What does Ayoob know about the legal ramifications a self defense in MA?

The basic principals are very similar in MA as they are in many other states -- duty to retreat when outside of the home, must be in immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury, etc.

 

[MisterHappy]

I was explaining to Jasons that I found myself in a situation where I was being threatened and I was regretting not having a firearm with me, however, I did have a knife. It got me to wondering about the knife VS. gun legal implications, if any.

On a similar, but different matter,Jasons did raise an interesting point. Some (not necessarily him) folks avoid carrying a knife (or pepper spray) and a gun. If you were unfortunate enough to be in a position to use the gun, some would critically ask why you didnt use the less lethal option of a knife or pepper spray.

If you pull the gun, and shoot, the problem that you will have is that you shot someone, not that you had a knife on you when you did it.

While I suppose that your question is based on a plausible premise, so too would be, "Why did you have such a killy gun (e.g. a .45) when a .38 is good enough?"

If it gets to the point that there's a "Bang!"....the piddly incidentals will be just that.

 

[dcmdon]

The legal answer is that deadly force is deadly force. Period. It doesn't matter whether its applied with a gun, knife, or bat.

One thing a knife or a bat would remove is any question whether the person was close enough to be a threat.

I'm not a big Ayoob fan, but he gives the best discussion on the use of lethal force, I've ever heard. It all boils down to Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy.

Google those 3 words with the word Ayoob, and you'll get all you need, including some good youtube vids.

Don

- - - Updated - - -

Those same folks don't do much better when it comes to edged weapons. Just ask Alexander Pring Wilson. http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/12/guilty_plea_in_2003_stabbing_death/

This was not a "clean" kill. The guy was drunk. He deserved what he got.

 

[Mike-Mike]

Keep in mind deadly force have everything to do with what you believe at the time. Nobody can read your mind but they can use the reasonable man standard and look at the Disparity of force/size/numbers/cultural predisposition etc. Also, being able to "document" that you knew something that aided in your decision at the time is crucial when you may have known more about the subject than the "reasonable man".

We have "Responsible use of force" class if you are interested where we beat this up pretty good and reference case law etc. Suddenly we have had much more interest in this class than in past years.