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Kansas police investigate whether fatal shooting was result of prank called 'swatting'
- Thread starter Reptile
- Start date
Good point. A cop being that accurate intentionally is hard to believe.
mibro
NES Member
Seriously, only one shot fired, not a multiple mag dump which is what you'd expect from these professionals. I think Officer Careless might have had a sight picture on the door with safety off and a bit too much pressure on the bang switch.
The whole reaching for his whatever story was just an after the fact justification.
Makes sense in my mind anyway.
If he worked for the Minneapolis PD he would most definitely get a medal for bravery.
"Just an unfortunate incident for which no charges are appropriate."
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I understand that officers are naturally on edge these days but I have to wonder about rules of engagement that allow an officer to open fire without actually seeing a weapon. Innocent people should not be gunned down by police because they accidentally make a movement that can (somehow) be construed as going for a weapon that they didn't have.
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Now that I think about it, it's true. When's the last time you heard of any cop firing just one round, be it a hit or a miss? They always shoot multiple times when they do it intentionally. The only recent cases where a cop shot once was in Tulsa with the black guy who was high and this one with the swatting.Seriously, only one shot fired, not a multiple mag dump which is what you'd expect from these professionals. I think Officer Careless might have had a sight picture on the door with safety off and a bit too much pressure on the bang switch.
The whole reaching for his whatever story was just an after the fact justification.
Makes sense in my mind anyway.
So, either negligent discharge or panic fire. Whatever the case, it's manslaughter because there's no threat to the officer, but the narrative that's being told over and over is a cop is in danger every second on the job so there's always a threat to them.
If the streets are this f***ing dangerous, why don't they just declare martial law and shut the whole country down? Then no cops will get shot.
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Yeah, I can only believe that if there's video of it. I'm sure that all the cops are told the same thing by older, more experienced officers that, "If you shoot, always say the suspect was reaching for something and it looked like he had a gun." It's like a get out of jail free card, another pig walks away with his taypayer funded pension intact.Seriously, only one shot fired, not a multiple mag dump which is what you'd expect from these professionals. I think Officer Careless might have had a sight picture on the door with safety off and a bit too much pressure on the bang switch.
The whole reaching for his whatever story was just an after the fact justification.
Makes sense in my mind anyway.
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Idk what is taught in the academy, but my suspicion is that they're taught to "assume a suspect has a weapon until you can pat them down and prove otherwise."
Assumption is the mother of all f*** ups.
976 people have been shot and killed by police this year, yet less than 50 cops have been shot and killed this year. The fact is that cops are not being gunned down on a daily basis, in fact, more of them die from car crashes and heart attacks every year.
I'd rather see a cop go into a bodybag than a child in a trailer park or a guy answering his door, but the system doesn't see it that way. Cops are model citizens and the rest of us are expendable worker bees.
Varmint
NES Member
Can someone explain why its ok for cops to invade someone's home with no evidence but an anonymous phone call? Can we get cops suspended without pay with an anonymous tip?
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You're one stop away from "why can't they just shoot the bad guy in the leg?"
GM-GUY
NES Member
Because most cops are lucky to hit the suburban the perps are riding in - from a car length or two.
There has to be a happy medium when the ROE in a war zone are more strict than what local police departments have.
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Cops are too trigger happy these days, makes police the best job for sociopath serial killers.
Maybe but that works both ways. We're also one stop from cops being able to shoot anyone at any time for any made up bullshit excuse too. A trained officer with his gun already drawn and aimed has the time to see if a person is actually going for a weapon or is just hitching up their pants.
Wichita Police Department released the body camera video of officer-involved shooting. Doesn't really make the situation any clearer.
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30+ yards away, spotlight in his face, and multiple police aimed at him.
Yeah, had it been a real hostage situation and he tried shooting at them, he wouldn't have hit them. Had it been a real hostage situation, how many times have we heard of cops getting the wrong address for warrant searches, raids, etc.?
I guess it doesn't matter. The lives of the pigs are of the utmost importance, more so than innocent civilians in the area. Even if this person was 95 years old and using a walker, the piglets would have lit him up because the 95 year old wouldn't be able to put their hands up or get on the ground, cross their legs and crawl towards those ultra brave hero cops.
This whole ordeal is rage inducing. 2 kids have a COD argument over a 1.50$. One gets a shitstain whose online handle SWAuTistic, SWAT in the damn name, who has done similar stuff before. The wrong address is given. Police then under complete cover with no investigation or thought shoot a spotlight blinded unarmed man. So we have 2 garbage kids who should both have charges, especially the repeat offender, an obviously trigger happy police officer, and the glorious "he was reaching for his waistband" defense. Cop should be fired and jailed. Swatter should have a felony murder charge (though his intent wasnt to kill that was the outcome, swat was merely the weapon he used), especially since he feels no remorse or blame for his actions. Kid who paid the swatter and gave him wrong info should have a hefty charge as well.
amm5061
NES Member
Anyone who initiates a swatting should be charged with felony murder if someone dies. Every single time. It should be like the laws in free states where if someone shoots a home invader, any accomplices of the dead perp get charged with felony murder automatically.
via Slashdot: Family of 'Swat' Victim Sues Kansas Police, Lawmakers Propose 40-Year Jail Terms - Slashdot
[bolding mine below, the rest of this post is a copy and paste]
Family of 'Swat' Victim Sues Kansas Police, Lawmakers Propose 40-Year Jail Terms (cbsnews.com)
more updates about the 'Swat' call that led to a fatal police shooting:The gamer who dared another gamer to send police officers to his home had offered the address where he used to live, until his family was evicted in 2016. While he may also be charged for the fatal shooting that followed, the victim's family has now sued the city of Wichita as well as its police officers, with their attorney saying the city "is trying to put all the blame on the young man in California who placed the swatting call. But let's be clear: the swatter did not shoot the bullet that killed Andy Finch. That was an officer working under the direction of the Wichita Police Department."
The attorney points out that the 911 caller in California provided a description of the house which didn't match the actual house in Kansas, adding "How can Wichita police department officers not be trained to deal with this type of situation...? Prank calls are not new," according to CBS News. "The lawsuit cites FBI crime statistics showing Wichita has a ratio of one shooting death for every 120 officers -- a number that is 11 times greater than the national ratio and 12 times greater than the ratio in Chicago."
Meanwhle, Kansas lawmakers have introduced a new bill proposing a penalty of 10 to 40 years in prison if a swatting call ends in a person's death, which would also cause the offense to be prosecuted as murder.
One lawmaker argues that the bill is necessary because under the current system if a person phones in a swat call, "there's really no consequence for his actions."
[bolding mine below, the rest of this post is a copy and paste]
Family of 'Swat' Victim Sues Kansas Police, Lawmakers Propose 40-Year Jail Terms (cbsnews.com)
more updates about the 'Swat' call that led to a fatal police shooting:The gamer who dared another gamer to send police officers to his home had offered the address where he used to live, until his family was evicted in 2016. While he may also be charged for the fatal shooting that followed, the victim's family has now sued the city of Wichita as well as its police officers, with their attorney saying the city "is trying to put all the blame on the young man in California who placed the swatting call. But let's be clear: the swatter did not shoot the bullet that killed Andy Finch. That was an officer working under the direction of the Wichita Police Department."
The attorney points out that the 911 caller in California provided a description of the house which didn't match the actual house in Kansas, adding "How can Wichita police department officers not be trained to deal with this type of situation...? Prank calls are not new," according to CBS News. "The lawsuit cites FBI crime statistics showing Wichita has a ratio of one shooting death for every 120 officers -- a number that is 11 times greater than the national ratio and 12 times greater than the ratio in Chicago."
Meanwhle, Kansas lawmakers have introduced a new bill proposing a penalty of 10 to 40 years in prison if a swatting call ends in a person's death, which would also cause the offense to be prosecuted as murder.
One lawmaker argues that the bill is necessary because under the current system if a person phones in a swat call, "there's really no consequence for his actions."
Isn't swatting a felony? Wire fraud, hacking, filing false police report, falsification of evidence, lying to a police officer, resulting in someone's death? Seems a reasonable person would attribute this death to two things; wire fraud and falsification by a script kiddie, and also gross negligence by the PD.
This shooting just blows my mind and makes me hopeless. At what point do we as a nation say to ourselves that police lives are not the only one's that matter?
They are across the street, say at least 25+ yards. A man exits the house. Clearly he is not holding a rifle, but he may have a pistol hidden on his person. Let's say he has a 9mm with 18 round in it. Can you honestly say that he is such a threat with a pistol at 25+yards to open fire immediately? The police are likely behind cover with rifles. If he mag dumps the whole 18 rounds, odds are exceedingly high he hits nothing. I know I can't shoot from the draw and hit a target behind cover at 25 yards under high stress. Shooting this person before he presents any weapon is absolutely criminal.
I've held a concealed weapons permit or a license to carry for over 5 years. If I shot an unarmed man who I thought "might have a gun", but didn't have one from 25+ yards, I'm going to jail, no doubt. This cop who shot from safety at an unarmed man should be charged with manslaughter, at the least. Maybe second degree murder. If you're going to carry a gun, you have to use good judgement. It's odd that civilian with LTC are expected to have perfect, sober judgement in the heat of the moment, but LEO who's entire profession involves understanding the law and use of force are given such a wide margin of error.
We as a nation need to stop worshiping the police. It's not even top 10 in most dangerous jobs. The mentality of "all that matters is that I make it home" needs to end. Being a cop means protecting the public and putting their well being first. Get on board with that or find another job.
They are across the street, say at least 25+ yards. A man exits the house. Clearly he is not holding a rifle, but he may have a pistol hidden on his person. Let's say he has a 9mm with 18 round in it. Can you honestly say that he is such a threat with a pistol at 25+yards to open fire immediately? The police are likely behind cover with rifles. If he mag dumps the whole 18 rounds, odds are exceedingly high he hits nothing. I know I can't shoot from the draw and hit a target behind cover at 25 yards under high stress. Shooting this person before he presents any weapon is absolutely criminal.
I've held a concealed weapons permit or a license to carry for over 5 years. If I shot an unarmed man who I thought "might have a gun", but didn't have one from 25+ yards, I'm going to jail, no doubt. This cop who shot from safety at an unarmed man should be charged with manslaughter, at the least. Maybe second degree murder. If you're going to carry a gun, you have to use good judgement. It's odd that civilian with LTC are expected to have perfect, sober judgement in the heat of the moment, but LEO who's entire profession involves understanding the law and use of force are given such a wide margin of error.
We as a nation need to stop worshiping the police. It's not even top 10 in most dangerous jobs. The mentality of "all that matters is that I make it home" needs to end. Being a cop means protecting the public and putting their well being first. Get on board with that or find another job.
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it takes a monumental amount of stupidity for a police dispatcher to not notice that this "local" swatting report is being telephoned in from 4 states away!!!
The dispatcher should be fired for gross negligence in all these cases
The dispatcher should be fired for gross negligence in all these cases
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