- Joined
- May 17, 2008
- Messages
- 16,975
- Likes
- 2,824
Is that a threat?
-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS June Giveaway ***Keltec SUB2000***
LEO's
- Thread starter richc
- Start date
- Status
Is that a threat?
Interesting thread so far. I know some officers that refuse to identify themselves on a motor vehicle stop out of principal, then again I know some that will hang their badge out of the window before you even reach them.
Life is full of variety, I've always been of the mindset that you simply cannot group people and need to take everyone as their own special case.
Maybe you would of gotten a warning, but because you have a chip on your shoulder or a bad taste from a different officer, you act snide and rude and expect the officer to just take your disrespect and let you go on your merry way. When this doesn't happen it's an outrage and you just work yourself up more for the next time you get stopped.
It's a cycle that eventually makes it so you get these people that feel the need to always harp on any officer that even attempts to make a point or discuss things (or worse), people just get this hatred that blinds them from holding a logical conversation with you.
Life is full of variety, I've always been of the mindset that you simply cannot group people and need to take everyone as their own special case.
Maybe you would of gotten a warning, but because you have a chip on your shoulder or a bad taste from a different officer, you act snide and rude and expect the officer to just take your disrespect and let you go on your merry way. When this doesn't happen it's an outrage and you just work yourself up more for the next time you get stopped.
It's a cycle that eventually makes it so you get these people that feel the need to always harp on any officer that even attempts to make a point or discuss things (or worse), people just get this hatred that blinds them from holding a logical conversation with you.
Edmond Dantes
Banned
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
- Messages
- 130
- Likes
- 11
Actually I was quite polite, cordial, and compliant. The officer asked me to step out of the car for a field sobriety test I complied. Did everything she asked me to keeping my answers short sweet and to the point. It was about 3:30 in the morning and I had been up since 6AM the day before and just wanted to go to bed. I wasn't about to do anything that would have lengthened the period of time between then and my head hitting the pillow. I passed her tests, received my aforementioned citation, even thanked her and went on my way. Now you could attempt to personally attack me without actually addressing anything in my post or you could make a counter argument. Apparently you prefer the former.
Last edited:
I honestly respect a LEO as a group, they have a difficult job at times. Almost all of my interactions with an LEO have been courteous (and a few comedic) and feel fortunate I have had to deal with 1 'bad' apple.
Did that 1 guy change my perception? No.
But sometimes the Thin Blue Line needs to look at the public perception they generate when they go to bat for corrupt cops. The main issue I am referring to is when that Trooper almost lost his life for trying to take away the keys from a fellow officer who was obviously to drunk to drive. That is not professional courtesy at work, that is a clear cut case of special treatment under the law.
Actions like that is what gets people questioning LEO's in general. How you act is how you will be perceived. I really feel sorry for the majority of LEO's who actually do their job honorably and justly.
To all LEO's I do want to thank you very much for your service and may you return safely each shift to your loved ones.
Did that 1 guy change my perception? No.
But sometimes the Thin Blue Line needs to look at the public perception they generate when they go to bat for corrupt cops. The main issue I am referring to is when that Trooper almost lost his life for trying to take away the keys from a fellow officer who was obviously to drunk to drive. That is not professional courtesy at work, that is a clear cut case of special treatment under the law.
Actions like that is what gets people questioning LEO's in general. How you act is how you will be perceived. I really feel sorry for the majority of LEO's who actually do their job honorably and justly.
To all LEO's I do want to thank you very much for your service and may you return safely each shift to your loved ones.
- Joined
- May 17, 2008
- Messages
- 16,975
- Likes
- 2,824
Where to begin. My work is not well boxed but I could say with a straight face that I run a business doing IT and electronics work where the main component is to write energy efficiency specs for a major energy efficiency label, along with work in renewable energy. I can honestly say I have never been given professional courtesy (ie; free stuff) and I think that even if I had* and the government ethics rules did not apply to me, the difference between what I do and what you do is you are allowing someone to get away with a crime. I would simply be, again remove the .gov aspect of this, negotiating a contractual term. You, as a sworn enforcer of the law, have no authority to negotiate the terms of that law. A little thing called separation of powers. Run for office if you want to negotiate the terms of the law. I am authorized to negotiate the terms of contracts for my company.
Look, you know me well enough by now that I am not a knee jerk I hate cops screwball. But the idea of a different standard applying to the behavior of one individual over another is reprehensible to me. That is not personal against you. It just violates every principle this country has embraced in the last 200 years, including the 14th amendment clause for equal protection of the law for ALL individuals in this nation. By having two standards, or more..., we are separating ourselves into classes. This was supposed to be a class blind society where no one was special or above the law.
*which would be a career ending crime for me since there is a lot of government work involved.
- Joined
- May 17, 2008
- Messages
- 16,975
- Likes
- 2,824
Agreed, there are good ones and bad ones. The bigger problem is that somehow the bad ones have been able to set policy and feel they can flaunt their power. I blame the inaction of the good ones for why this is allowed to happen.
Last edited:
Dear sir, I regret to inform you that I had been typing my own post while you apparently were typing yours.
I did not see nor read your post before mine was posted and was not commenting on you nor anyone else in this thread. Just my own observations.
I do apologize as I did put the term "you" in my post, however it is just how I type, I would of quoted your post directly if it was directed to you.
Last edited:
Edmond Dantes
Banned
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
- Messages
- 130
- Likes
- 11
Dear sir, I regret to inform you that I had been typing my own post while you apparently were typing yours.
I did not see nor read your post before mine was posted and was not commenting on you nor anyone else in this thread. Just my own observations.
I do thank you for assuming that I was attempting to personally attack you and making a snide comment in my direction.![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
My apologies then good sir. Seems as if I was too quick at the keyboard.
Well I have to admit this subject has caught my attention and as a veteran LEO I thought I would add my two cents worth.
I do read a lot of posts here on numerous subjects but honestly I scan....but this subject has had me sit and read every word from every member who has posted so far.
When I took this job I truely wanted to be someone who came to the needs of others and I looked at my position as one that would be respected by others for my good work and efforts to do so.
But obviously over the years the perspective of this profession has gone down the drain and I don't blame people who either hate or simply don't trust cops.
And all that bad image is our own fault.
Many cops take advantage of their position and unfortunately many feel as though they are "above the law".
I can say that 99% of the people who first take this job are all the same and we all have the same goals, dreams and outlook as I stated earlier but as time goes by and you see what you can and can't do or "get away with", well some LEO simply can't control themselves and they go bad.
I can tell you that I personally don't like to be a prick and write tickets or bust ballz and kick azz and all that rah-rah stuff.
I don't like to get a domestic call to someones residence and have to go inside the home and walk out with someone in cuffs.
A lot of people just view us as ball breakers who live to write tickets, because we need to make revenue for our city or fill a quota which really isn't true in most cases.
Are a lot of LEO hypocrites? Yes, they are but again most are not.
Like most professions you can't judge us all on the behavior of a few who have done the wrong thing. Again most of us still have the integrity and honor the commitment of the oath brings.
Thank you all for your opinions.
I do read a lot of posts here on numerous subjects but honestly I scan....but this subject has had me sit and read every word from every member who has posted so far.
When I took this job I truely wanted to be someone who came to the needs of others and I looked at my position as one that would be respected by others for my good work and efforts to do so.
But obviously over the years the perspective of this profession has gone down the drain and I don't blame people who either hate or simply don't trust cops.
And all that bad image is our own fault.
Many cops take advantage of their position and unfortunately many feel as though they are "above the law".
I can say that 99% of the people who first take this job are all the same and we all have the same goals, dreams and outlook as I stated earlier but as time goes by and you see what you can and can't do or "get away with", well some LEO simply can't control themselves and they go bad.
I can tell you that I personally don't like to be a prick and write tickets or bust ballz and kick azz and all that rah-rah stuff.
I don't like to get a domestic call to someones residence and have to go inside the home and walk out with someone in cuffs.
A lot of people just view us as ball breakers who live to write tickets, because we need to make revenue for our city or fill a quota which really isn't true in most cases.
Are a lot of LEO hypocrites? Yes, they are but again most are not.
Like most professions you can't judge us all on the behavior of a few who have done the wrong thing. Again most of us still have the integrity and honor the commitment of the oath brings.
Thank you all for your opinions.
Edmond Dantes
Banned
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
- Messages
- 130
- Likes
- 11
That is a very valid function of police. Protecting one person's liberty because they're being denied their life, liberty or property. In that case there is a usually a clear victim and you are there to protect further danger to their life. I suppose my beef is more geared towards the enforcement of victimless crimes. So long as you're not infringing on one of the aforementioned liberties you ought to be able to live your life according to your values and wishes and be largely left alone.
I do however, have a series of follow up questions. Do most towns have a quota system? What happens if you don't meet your quota? Is it like any other government where its usually very difficult to reprimand or even terminate under performers? In other words are there consequences if you don't reach your quota? I was also reading a newspaper article where Staties get like an hours worth of pay as an incentive to write more tickets. Is that true? Is there a similar system for town police? What is the motivation for writing X number of tickets a month?
I agree that most police officers are good guys. But like everything else you only hear about the bad ones. Look at all the guys in sports, we only hear about a few.
With police officers, we would like to hold them up to a level that we do not expect from any other groups. People are people and there are good and bad in all of us.
With police officers, we would like to hold them up to a level that we do not expect from any other groups. People are people and there are good and bad in all of us.
That's pure bullshit. The papers and news are full of stories of drug busts, murder investigations and other stories of cops doing their jobs. We hear far far far more stories about the police just plain old doing their jobs than we do about them doing wrong.
namedpipes
NES Member
Cops tend to interact with US on our worst days. People get cranky and demanding on bad days.
If MY job exposed me to cranky, demanding people on a day in, day out, no break in sight basis, I might tend to act like some of the members at masscops: chip on shoulder, short tempered, etc.
If I acted liked that, people would tend to think I was an a-hole. Well, a lot of people do anyway, but thats another matter.
To the hopefully VAST majority of cops doing a thankless but necessary and sometimes heroic job, thank you!.
To the hopefully tiny minority of cops that abuse their power and the trust that we place in them, go %$^# yourselves.
If MY job exposed me to cranky, demanding people on a day in, day out, no break in sight basis, I might tend to act like some of the members at masscops: chip on shoulder, short tempered, etc.
If I acted liked that, people would tend to think I was an a-hole. Well, a lot of people do anyway, but thats another matter.
To the hopefully VAST majority of cops doing a thankless but necessary and sometimes heroic job, thank you!.
To the hopefully tiny minority of cops that abuse their power and the trust that we place in them, go %$^# yourselves.
Anytime a person is the assigned "enforcer" - it lends itself lots of bad days.
I imagine they keep their Kahr K9's properly locked up either with trigger or cable locks, or in a safe. I don't think you are allowed to use the front door as a Massachusetts approved locking device. When did this turn to discussion of Kahr's?
I guess I should clear up what I said earlier and called on by member "Edmond Dantes".
I stated "I don't like going to domestic calls, into peoples homes and walking out with someone win cuffs".
Obviously I realize I'm there for a reason and there was a threat of violence or at least, verbal abuse.
And yes I'm there to help prevent further threats or injuries. My point was I don't enjoy going into the privacy of someone's home.
We have all had an argument with our partners at one time or another. But without physical violence, would a verbal argument with you and your partner warrant a cop pounding down your door and getting into the middle of your disagreement?
I'm sure your going to say I'm there to do my job and again YES I am, but sometimes I feel like I'm walking into a situation of privacy....just my opinion.
As far as the other questions;
1. We here do not have a ticket quota, although I did just see on the news a recent chief of police telling his guys to do so due to revenue declines. Most cities/towns get approx. 40% of a ticket kicked back to them and the state gets the rest.
2. We do not get fired or suspended if we don't write a certain number of citations but if your supervisor asked you to go out and be visable to the public and possibly try and get a citation you certainly would.
3. Nobody gets extra pay or time off or OT in their check for writting tickets, be it 1 ticket or 200 in a month....although there is a catch here.
All cops do get paid OT when they have written a citation and someone wants to contest it in court. When I get a notice to appear for someone who feels there recieved a citation unjustified, then win or lose at court I get paid OT.
Remember, this is just my opinion and not written in stone for all LEO.
I hope I cleared up a little for you.
I stated "I don't like going to domestic calls, into peoples homes and walking out with someone win cuffs".
Obviously I realize I'm there for a reason and there was a threat of violence or at least, verbal abuse.
And yes I'm there to help prevent further threats or injuries. My point was I don't enjoy going into the privacy of someone's home.
We have all had an argument with our partners at one time or another. But without physical violence, would a verbal argument with you and your partner warrant a cop pounding down your door and getting into the middle of your disagreement?
I'm sure your going to say I'm there to do my job and again YES I am, but sometimes I feel like I'm walking into a situation of privacy....just my opinion.
As far as the other questions;
1. We here do not have a ticket quota, although I did just see on the news a recent chief of police telling his guys to do so due to revenue declines. Most cities/towns get approx. 40% of a ticket kicked back to them and the state gets the rest.
2. We do not get fired or suspended if we don't write a certain number of citations but if your supervisor asked you to go out and be visable to the public and possibly try and get a citation you certainly would.
3. Nobody gets extra pay or time off or OT in their check for writting tickets, be it 1 ticket or 200 in a month....although there is a catch here.
All cops do get paid OT when they have written a citation and someone wants to contest it in court. When I get a notice to appear for someone who feels there recieved a citation unjustified, then win or lose at court I get paid OT.
Remember, this is just my opinion and not written in stone for all LEO.
I hope I cleared up a little for you.
- Joined
- May 17, 2008
- Messages
- 16,975
- Likes
- 2,824
K9 = Canine. He's talking about dogs.
Works for me. If I were an LEO, I can see why they might avoid NES. A high % of the anti LEO rants and comments are over the top and or way out of line.
MaverickNH
NES Member
Like the bumper sticker says, "I love my country but fear my government."
People with the power to suspend my freedoms, be they city/county/state police, customs & border police, judges, etc., make me feel uneasy, as how they treat me might not be determined by my behavior. A discount store clerk having a bad day might not leave me with a warm and fuzzy feeling, but they won't detain me for questioning and searching, as have CBP/TSA (for no reason I was ever able to determine).
It's only strong civil rights that keep such agencies in check and I think those rights have been slipping since the "War on Drugs" started, and have slipped further since 9-11. But still, the USA has the best civil rights protections to be had.
I'll always give the benefit of the doubt to people in professions that risk life & limb for modest paychecks. But I might feel the same about those with the power of arrest as did our founding fathers feel about "select militias" - they are less controlled by the people than by the government. Back then the states balanced the federal government, but the distinction has diminished considerably - we have no local militia composed of friends & neighbors and officered by the same. The LEO community stands more separated from the community at large.
I grew up a kid in Iowa, called policemen "Sir" and was taught to seek anyone in a uniform, be they a policeman, postman, fireman, milkman or groceryman, when I was lost or in trouble. I still call policemen "Sir" and tell my kids they can trust and respect policemen and firemen. And I'm pretty confident I'm right.
People with the power to suspend my freedoms, be they city/county/state police, customs & border police, judges, etc., make me feel uneasy, as how they treat me might not be determined by my behavior. A discount store clerk having a bad day might not leave me with a warm and fuzzy feeling, but they won't detain me for questioning and searching, as have CBP/TSA (for no reason I was ever able to determine).
It's only strong civil rights that keep such agencies in check and I think those rights have been slipping since the "War on Drugs" started, and have slipped further since 9-11. But still, the USA has the best civil rights protections to be had.
I'll always give the benefit of the doubt to people in professions that risk life & limb for modest paychecks. But I might feel the same about those with the power of arrest as did our founding fathers feel about "select militias" - they are less controlled by the people than by the government. Back then the states balanced the federal government, but the distinction has diminished considerably - we have no local militia composed of friends & neighbors and officered by the same. The LEO community stands more separated from the community at large.
I grew up a kid in Iowa, called policemen "Sir" and was taught to seek anyone in a uniform, be they a policeman, postman, fireman, milkman or groceryman, when I was lost or in trouble. I still call policemen "Sir" and tell my kids they can trust and respect policemen and firemen. And I'm pretty confident I'm right.
richc
NES Member
Hey EFR,
The rifles are GREAT! Shot them for the first time last night with my son and had a ball. As we were shooting right around dusk the muzzle blast was a thing of beauty!!! My son was nailing 10" metal plates at 100 yards without a problem. Me... I can barely see the metal plates at 100 yards!![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Thanks again for your kind help in this transaction, and for showing some of your very cool toys. And be proud of your chosen career, and the good that you do on behalf of the rest of us. You're a good guy... don't forget that.
Best,
Rich
p.s. Please tell Mr. Happy I said hello!!!
The rifles are GREAT! Shot them for the first time last night with my son and had a ball. As we were shooting right around dusk the muzzle blast was a thing of beauty!!! My son was nailing 10" metal plates at 100 yards without a problem. Me... I can barely see the metal plates at 100 yards!
Thanks again for your kind help in this transaction, and for showing some of your very cool toys. And be proud of your chosen career, and the good that you do on behalf of the rest of us. You're a good guy... don't forget that.
Best,
Rich
p.s. Please tell Mr. Happy I said hello!!!
It is ironic that this thread continues as another thread was started to discuss a Saugus cop who was terminated for stealing a $500 pistol from a gun club. He tried to avoid questioning by LEO's by saying "I'm a cop" One of the mentally challenged ones
richc
NES Member
Yup... and then you have the knucklehead that urinated on someone at a concert recently. If these offenders had been electricians or accountants or bartenders we would likely not hear about them. Things like this happen all the time but are not considered newsworthy. It is because the alleged offenders are LEO that these stories make the news. And notice that his plea for leniency because he was an LEO did not help him.
There are good and bad in every profession.
Rich
There are good and bad in every profession.
Rich
I agree completely, I have met many cops, I have some friends who are cops, when we get together, we talk cop stuff, guns, everything else including my experiences with bad cops. Those conversations make them wince. One of my good friends has been on the Providence PD for a long time, he shakes when he discusses the bad old days under Chief Prignano (sp). The worst time I ever had with a cop was a bar crawl I did with three of them one night!
OMG one of them was drinking Jagermeister like it was water and challenged my manhood every time I refuse a shot. I was lucky to get home alive, terrible night just terrible![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
I respect those guys for the risks they take daily to keep me and my family safe. I include them in my prayers because I don't want to go to their funeral, I will, but I hope that day never comes.
BTW, for those of you who are not LEO's but a friends with one, ask him to run you through the FIST shoot/don't shoot training. If you walk out of that session without a serious case of jitters than you aren't real. Honestly, I don't know how they do it sometimes
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
Um... No. Most of the tickets I got I deserved... and I appreciate the cops who had me dead to rights and did NOT give me a ticket. The end result was the same; I corrected what I was doing wrong. Those were the good guys.
OTOH... the NJ Statie who threatened to arrest me because I offered to stay with a biker who's bike had broken down had NO cause to do that. Or maybe I should mention the cop who planted drug paraphernalia in my car, which I was subsequently charged for... Sorry, there are a**h***s out there who do NOT deserve to have a badge. And yeah, you tend to remember the ones who threaten you and your freedom.
Yup. Had a Sudbuy cop give me a warning (I've NEVER heard of anyone else who got a warning in Sudbury!) one time. What'd I do? Pulled over the instant I saw his lights go on. Told him that it'd been a great day until I realized I "was going fast enough to be of professional interest to you". He laughed, told me that school was opening the next day (this was by LS High School) and please slow down. I did.
Telecommunications consultant. Can't say as I've ever gotten any "professional courtesy" out of it.
Look, the only thing I get out of putting the Square & Compasses on the back of my car is a wave from other Masons. When someone has a "thin blue line" sticker on his car, it's like saying "Hey, I'm a brother cop, don't ticket me!" 'Cause more often than not, those guys are the ones doing 90.
Correct. When someone has the power over his fellow citizens that LEOs do, they must be above reproach... and they should come down like a ton of bricks on their fellows who offend. Instead they close ranks around them and the offender gets a slap on the wrist. Maybe.
Do a little reading over on masscops.com and you'll see that the "TBL" stickers usually get you a ticket now. Not too many actual cops use them anymore, but more so relatives and friends of cops looking to get out of a ticket. You can make your own if you want, all it takes is a color printer and some sticker paper.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Cool! Another cop bashing thread!
Can we start a new sub-forum? We can make Half Cocked the moderator.
Can we start a new sub-forum? We can make Half Cocked the moderator.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
Hey, I don't hold it against cops when I get a ticket, for example, if I was doing what they charged me with. Gotten several of those, hey, I deserved it if I was doing something stupid. I literally don't remember all of those encounters because it went as it should - broke the law, cop saw it, got ticketed. No problem, that's how the game is played. Sometimes the cop was nicer than s/he had to be and gave me a warning. Sometimes not. *shrug* It happens.And there are some of us who have had less than happy experiences with the police where the police were clearly in the right.
Go figure.
However... when a cop gets pissed because I laughed when he told me I was doing 70MPH (in a car which couldn't break 65 with a tailwind) and then gives a ticket for "failure to keep right", then he's in the wrong because he's just taking his pissy mood out on me.
How many more times do I have to say it? YOU GUYS CAN'T AFFORD TO MAKE MISTAKES OR BE SEEN AS LESS THAN PERFECT. You lose all respect that the public should have for you when you cover up for your brothers who screw up.
- Status
