-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
Liberty Safe Confirms They Gave Feds Access Code to Gun Safe During Raid on January 6 Protester
- Thread starter Reptile
- Start date
![[popcorn]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/043.gif "Popcorn [popcorn]")
rogersmithiii
NES Member
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 2,914
- Likes
- 4,194
I also think that any gun / gun parts company should flush orders and customer data from their computers as well. You know that these companies will hand over data immediately if anyone asks.
- a subpoena compels action by an individual or entity
- a warrant authorizes action by a legal authority.
By Liberty Safes own statement they were not served a subpoena that would require them to legally provide the information.
IANAL, Only going by what has been released online.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,530
- Likes
- 33,561
It was actually "We provided the combination for a safe the FBI told us was in a location they had a warrant to search".
The warrant wasn’t for Liberty Safe. Liberty is not required to help LE serve a warrant on someone else. Now, if they received a subpoena, it would be a different story. But they didn’t.
I have an ESS 50 from Easter Safe and Security. When moving to MO, the movers hit the dial on the edge of a door frame bending it. It works, but feels like it is loosening up over the years and is getting more and more finicky. I had called ESS and they said a replacement was like $350? From your link, it seems an S&G is superior, and far better prices. Are these locks pretty standardized in size and how difficult is it to install? Do you set the combo or is it pre-set?
I believe nearly every safe has a standard layout. If in doubt, ESS should be able to tell you.
It’s a little bit fussy to get the alignment right so the dial turns freely, but it doesn’t take a locksmith with magic fingers.
It comes with a combination, I think, but it’s not hard to change it if you have the tool and follow the instructions carefully.
Yes.
Tell me you didn’t read anything related to this story without saying you didn’t read anything related to this story.
As for Yankee Marshall I’m surprised people still watch that guy. I found his videos annoying.
EddieZoom
NES Member
Sorry if I missed it, but has @EasternSecuritySafe chimed in on this LIberty situation ?
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,530
- Likes
- 33,561
I would not expect them to.
- Support Liberty and get on the NES shitlist
- Denounce Liberty and risk difficulty in getting goods or less favorable pricing
The only way for ESS to win is to not play the comment game.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,530
- Likes
- 33,561
That was probably the installed price.
If it is "getting finicky" but you can still open, but it's a sign that you could get locked out soon. It's like continuing to use a TV that works that is finicky because it has ruptured electrolytics
![[crying]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/006.gif "Crying [crying]")
- The thing might die right when you favorite weather forecaster comes on.If it was for a total lock replacement, lock included, installed at the customer site, $350 is not unreasonable. The mechanical S&G 6730 goes for about $165 and the S&G Titan electronic lock goes for about $250. ESS provides excellent and competent service, but does not leave any money on the table. The 10 minute job of setting the combination on a mechanical will run you $50 extra if you have ESS do it at the time of sale.
You can set the combo on both the electronic and mechanical S&G, and if you get a new S&G lock you get the change key with it. If you replace with a used mechanical get a new spline key (unless you are really into skinflinting) and a new drive shaft/spindle (as this is cut to length on install - unless you are certain the used one was cut to the exact length you need). You'll see reference to "hire a pro" to change a mechanical combination, but there are loads of youtube videos that show how.
What kind of lock is on the safe now? S&G has standardized on what they call the "magic module" footprint across their product line to make replacement easy without drilling and tapping.
I suggest you do a search on youtube and watch a few videos on installing/replacing safe locks.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,530
- Likes
- 33,561
Liberty has had a program at the Shot Show - if you are an exhibitor and ask nicely, they will drop a safe off in your booth for your use in storing guns, scopes, and other valuables when the floor is closed. This is very helpful since there is a history of off-hours theft at the Shot Show, and it gets the Liberty name out there as the name brand everyone is using.
If Liberty still does this, I wonder if any vendors will take them up on the offer at the next Shot Show.
If Liberty still does this, I wonder if any vendors will take them up on the offer at the next Shot Show.
EJFudd
NES Member
Yep.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Every shop, store and vendor out there should know it by now. Play the NES comments game and lose bigtime. ![[slap]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/025.gif "Slap [slap]")
EddieZoom
NES Member
All good points...and I agree...*but* as an ESS customer I am naturally curious how they would have handled this situation.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,530
- Likes
- 33,561
I suspect they are smart enough, and in tune with the concerns of their customers, that they would have said "We'll cooperate fully once you have a court order compelling disclosure". Bonus points for informing the safe owner of the request immediately (legal unless included in a court order or national security letter).
A friend was in a similar situation. He ran a small ISP that was being used for backups by a criminal who eventually got life. As with all things anonymous, it was not - and he was asked for the data belonging to this customer who thought his identity and use of the service was private. My friend told them "full cooperation when you show up with a warrant". He received polite treatment from multiple federal agencies and was never treated as a suspect, but when one agent ordered him not to touch the keyboard when he was trying to help he stepped back and gave the agent access to the Dvorak keyboard.
Last edited:
ccm75
NES Member
I bought a nice big Liberty safe last spring.
Love it. Looks great, motion activated LED lighting, allows me to keep almost everything in one place.
Maybe I misread or failed to read all the info on this recent topic, but I thought that Liberty had provided the factory entry code which could still be used even if safe owner had reset to his own code?
True or no?
Did this guy buy a safe and not reset combo to his own liking?
After my safe was installed the tech immediately showed me how to reset 6 digit combo on the e-lock. He stepped out of the room and I did so.
I recently tried the factory combo that safe came with, as printed in start-up manual, and as expected it did not work.
Love it. Looks great, motion activated LED lighting, allows me to keep almost everything in one place.
Maybe I misread or failed to read all the info on this recent topic, but I thought that Liberty had provided the factory entry code which could still be used even if safe owner had reset to his own code?
True or no?
Did this guy buy a safe and not reset combo to his own liking?
After my safe was installed the tech immediately showed me how to reset 6 digit combo on the e-lock. He stepped out of the room and I did so.
I recently tried the factory combo that safe came with, as printed in start-up manual, and as expected it did not work.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,530
- Likes
- 33,561
What brand and model lock? It is possible the lock has a MRC (Master reset code) that even the vendor does not have. With the S&G Titan series, you can remove or reset the MRC only at initial setup - and after that, it is unchangeable.
Changing the factory set user combo does not change the MRC if there is one, so noting the old one does not work doesn't prove much.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,530
- Likes
- 33,561
An interesting scenario:
- Liberty promises to remove your combination/master reset code from their files on request
- Any competent business has a regular backup schedule
- Although possible, it is impractical to re-process all existing backups to remove data deleted since the backup
So what if Liberty gets a subpoena or national security letter demanding the combination be retrieved, and if not in the current database, that all backups be examined to see if the combination is on file?
I worked on a backup system that allowed you to restore and mount a database backup to a temporary location so you could access it without destroying the current production. If the data was in a MS/SQL or Oracle backup using this system, it would be simple for a database admin who knew the table structure to mount the backup and lookup a record that was removed after the backup was taken.
Liberty is almost certainly not offering to remove your combination from all its files; only the current production version. You would need to know their backup cycling/delete schedule to know when you data was really gone.
And, the FBI tech people are very competent; they are not likely to miss the "it may exist on a backup" issue.
- Liberty promises to remove your combination/master reset code from their files on request
- Any competent business has a regular backup schedule
- Although possible, it is impractical to re-process all existing backups to remove data deleted since the backup
So what if Liberty gets a subpoena or national security letter demanding the combination be retrieved, and if not in the current database, that all backups be examined to see if the combination is on file?
I worked on a backup system that allowed you to restore and mount a database backup to a temporary location so you could access it without destroying the current production. If the data was in a MS/SQL or Oracle backup using this system, it would be simple for a database admin who knew the table structure to mount the backup and lookup a record that was removed after the backup was taken.
Liberty is almost certainly not offering to remove your combination from all its files; only the current production version. You would need to know their backup cycling/delete schedule to know when you data was really gone.
And, the FBI tech people are very competent; they are not likely to miss the "it may exist on a backup" issue.
Last edited:
rogersmithiii
NES Member
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 2,914
- Likes
- 4,194
You could just answer the question rather than posting a snarky insult. It probably would have taken less time and effort that way.
Not my fault you didn’t read the story or the dozens of posts discussing it.
Meanwhile…
Liberty Safe facing investigation after customer code sharing backlash
The Missouri Attorney General's office has launched an investigation into the company's release of an alleged Jan. 6 rioter's safe information to the FBI.
www.newsweek.com
What a fagI was bored and decided to give Yankee Marshall a listen to and he's defending LIberty Safe and saying that if they hadn't given the FBI the code the FBI could have raided Liberty and taken all their data for failing to help them open a safe and he says it like he's just fine with the FBI doing that.
![[puke]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/023.gif "Puke [puke]")
The town building inspector in liberty safes location(s) should show up for a surprise inspection and find reason to shut those commies down. You like the boot of government? Feel the boot.Not my fault you didn’t read the story or the dozens of posts discussing it.
Meanwhile…
Liberty Safe facing investigation after customer code sharing backlash
The Missouri Attorney General's office has launched an investigation into the company's release of an alleged Jan. 6 rioter's safe information to the FBI.
That was probably the installed price.
If it is "getting finicky" but you can still open, but it's a sign that you could get locked out soon. It's like continuing to use a TV that works that is finicky because it has ruptured electrolytics
If it was for a total lock replacement, lock included, installed at the customer site, $350 is not unreasonable. The mechanical S&G 6730 goes for about $165 and the S&G Titan electronic lock goes for about $250. ESS provides excellent and competent service, but does not leave any money on the table. The 10 minute job of setting the combination on a mechanical will run you $50 extra if you have ESS do it at the time of sale.
You can set the combo on both the electronic and mechanical S&G, and if you get a new S&G lock you get the change key with it. If you replace with a used mechanical get a new spline key (unless you are really into skinflinting) and a new drive shaft/spindle (as this is cut to length on install - unless you are certain the used one was cut to the exact length you need). You'll see reference to "hire a pro" to change a mechanical combination, but there are loads of youtube videos that show how.
What kind of lock is on the safe now? S&G has standardized on what they call the "magic module" footprint across their product line to make replacement easy without drilling and tapping.
I suggest you do a search on youtube and watch a few videos on installing/replacing safe locks.
Thanks. Great info. I'll watch a few videos.
Or just the statement released by Liberty Safe themselves would have been sufficient.
cathouse01
NES Member
- Joined
- May 10, 2018
- Messages
- 2,441
- Likes
- 4,668
This has been an issue with backup/business continuity service providers since at least 2000, when I first got involved. There are lots of ways you can timeout a backup so that you don't maintain confidential information in the backup set. In almost all cases, businesses maintain a backup of their transactional data only for business continuity purposes, which means that they only care about the most recent 24 hours. They normally shouldn't bother to maintain any significant history, since it's not cost effective. In respect to other files (like email messages or word documents) the good backup systems give you rules you can put in place to ensure that when data is purged from the online data set it will automatically get purged from the backup sets (note purged is different from deleted). Any business that claims to delete your confidential info that doesn't have one of these systems in place is effectively lying to you.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,530
- Likes
- 33,561
I am not aware of any vendor or bank that purges order or transactions after 24 hours. Amazon keeps years of purchase history, and even some history of what you looked at.
Ant to what extent can a subpeona force a business to go to try to recover data? Can it mandate stop of writes to the drive with the data followed by use of deleted file recovery programs? I'd guess that there is LE software that has features like scan contend of deleted files not yet overwritten. This is harder on Unix/Linux since the file systems on Unix tend to overwrite recently freed space, whereas NTFS does the opposite leaving a very long history of recoverable deleted files.
