Long Range Deer Shooting.... Hmmm...

[PatMcD]

They say 890yds. At long distances (anything over 500yds or so), they would definitely need a laser range finder to get distance figures. Beyond 600yds, as little as a 50yd distance error would be enough to miss the target. I would have to assume they are using at least a 300 Win mag. Maybe more like a 338 Win Mag or Lapua.

Being able to put the first shot in the black at 600 is relatively easy in Highpower because we know it is 600yds. Being able to do the same at longer, unknown ranges is a totally different thing.

Personally, this type of hunting holds no interest for me, but I won't condemn others for doing it as long as it is legal. Remember: that is how the anti's drive a wedge between us. We had the same debate here in Maine when it comes to Bear hunting. They wanted to pass a law against hunting bear with bait or dogs. Some other hunters (non-bear hunters) agreed saying "well that don't seem fair to shoot the poor thing after it's been chased by dogs or drawn in by stale doughnuts". They probably had no idea that that is the only effective way to hunt bears and therefore control their population. The law didn't pass, by the way.


I think the video clips are manipulated a little, also. How come we see the deer drop at the sound of the shot? At that range, there would definitely be a slight delay.

 

[Weerd Beard]

I think the video clips are manipulated a little, also. How come we see the deer drop at the sound of the shot? At that range, there would definitely be a slight delay.

Great post, totally agree. Just one thing, I don't trust sound on You-tube. It appears that there is a common formatting error that messes up the soun synch.

Just and Observation.

-Weer'd

 

[bpm990d]

Totally Disgusting to watch such videos.
$100s of dollars worth of equipment would tell me they don't need the food

Need the food? What does that have to do with anything. Sort of like someone saying there is no need for an AR 15. That is a ZUMBO type comment don't you think?

so what do they need? the pleasure in hitting a LIVE target at 600 meters? Send their asses to Iraq and they can have all of the pleasures they want.

Sounds like an argument that an anti-hunter would use against someone killing bambi. Doesn't work with for them and it doesn't work for you.

That isn't a sport and is like hunting on a 500 acre Preserve, the odds are highly in the shooter's favor and highly against the Animals.

Sort of like using a gun instead of a spear? No sport at all really.

I wonder if they went after the one they shot in the rear hip?

Why would they be any less likely to go after it than you? As if no Elmer Fudd ever wounded an animal when he jumped a deer and took a running shot. Lots of hunters wound animals that run off. If anything these guys are a lot less likely to that than the typical Fudd that hunts with buckshot.

How do they know what they have for a backdrop? What if there was someone in those trees in back would they have any idea?

Same could be said for most hunters. That jack ass here in Maine that killed that poor lady in her back yard because of her white mittens, didn't know his backstop.

You also know there is an abundance of EGO when you have to film yourself taking a animal.

Sort of like a lot of hunters that chop off the head of the animal and have it stuffed and put up on their wall. Lot of EGO in doing that as well. Most hunters don't complain about that.

Anyone with a decent rifle and a scope can do those shots and I know quite a few, including myself who can do those shots without a scope, but have no desire to film it or do it.

Anyone? Really? As far as doing it with irons? Yeah you can shoot at a large well defined paper target with irons and get decent groups. However you are talking about a poorly defined target that is moving. Doing it with irons would be very difficult as you could barely see the target. If you can't see the target there really isn't anything to aim at.

I have no idea if the ranges claimed on the video are accurate, but I'd like to see you consistently hit a poorly defined deer sized moving target at 890 yards with irons. In fact I'd be impressed with consistently hitting a stationary deer sized target with irons at that range.

B

 

[Wingwiper]

bpm990d

You had some fun with my post and I will answer you, One on One.

To kill a Deer for the sake of killing a Deer is not like killing Varmits or Rats. But that is my Opinion. I did not see much movement at the time of the shot. What you dodn't see on youtube is how many BAD shots were made to be able to post a couple of good ones.
No! I do not think it is a Zumbo comment to watch adults spend money on fancy equipment and shoot Deer. I made the comment to show that when someone has that much equipment and they are filming themselves, it usually is about EGO.
I doubt very much it was 890 yards, I would bet it wasn't over 500 meters or 600 max. Look at the Young Maple in the first segment, look at the buildings and then look at the meadows and the size of the shooter, No Way it is over 600. They could say 1000 and that wouldn;t mean it was. Camera shots are very misleading.
I have spent many many hours on the 600 meter line to say that Deer was even 600 meters would be pushing it.
I am by no means an ANTI-HUNTER, I am a Hunter and have been since the mid 60s. I also don't belive in hunting with Scopes, never have. If you got Good eyesight go Iron. Bt when someone sets up so much crap and then films himself shooting a Deer, I don't see any Sport, I don't see a Hunt and I see a person who seems to enjoy filming himself killing for no other reason than to watch it fall. That to me is SICK and if you see a Jim Zumbo in that, OK fine.
I have NEVER had to go after a Wounded animal, NEVER. I have always hunted with a simple rule ONE SHOT ONE KILL and I have always aimed for the head and that way I have had a CLEAN KILL or a CLEAN MISS. But that is me. I hunt with people who feel the same way and have ZERO respect for people who hunt and don't go after a wounded animal. You are assuming he is a GOOD guy and from the extremes I saw, I beleive he could care less.
Here in Vermont, if you took a shot as was taken in the first segment, where you can clearly see buildings in the background, I have no doubt you could be charged with RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT. That is why you see more and more SAFETY and NO TRESSPASSING signs going up, because of the disregard for others.
I do NOT chop heads off and mount them. I do not see the relation of chopping of a head after a successful HUNT, where you studied, traveled, and passed many shots and waited for the RIGHT one to come along and then you were able to get it. Sorry, do not see the relation at all.
Yes! anyone... and the DEER is NOT poorly defined, it is against a dark background. Poorly defined is like the Targets at Ft Benning Ga, there is NO trees, no grass, no nothing but Bright sky behind your targets and that little spot of Black gets awful hard to see, now put the Sun behind your back and shining on the target as well. Been there done it, hundreds of times. Did it with 25 mph fish tailing winds too. Just for your info, because you seem to be having a good laugh, I have my GOLD. Got it in 93 and with IRON SIGHTS.

 

[Admin]

I don't know but I've had a hard time spotting a deer at 200 yards. Unless the deer was standing in an open field in the snow, I don't know how well I would be able to pick it up at 600+ yards.

 

[dvajda]

So you probably dislike bird hunting then, huh? Or what about a running deer? What is the maximum distance you think we should be allowed to hunt from? I'll pack my tape measure.

You quoted me, but didn't understand anything I said. The actual quote you picked out clearly stated that I was worried that WHEN they wounded an animal, these guys were not going to pack up their entire bench with all that equipment and go running after it. If they want to take crazy shots, I guess it is fine, but I KNOW that they are going to end up wounding animals. Even with great skill they can't be 100% all the time, could be due to wind or ammo or whatever. But these guys definitely don't seem the type to pack it up and go track down the wounded deer. And that is what makes my stomach churn. Hell, it might take em 30 minutes just to go over and check out a downed deer from that distance, who will watch their equipment.

I dunno, it isn't that they are hunting from that far away, more power to you if you can pull it off. But if you mess it up, you better do what every other hunter does and go chase it into the bush. But with an 890 yard lead on you, and you having all that equipment, just doesn't seem likely.

Oh, and they specifically say 890 yards in the video. That is 813 meters, so I dunno where all this 600 meter stuff came from...

 

[Admin]

Lets please continue keeping this thread tactful. We may disagree, but lets keep it under control.

 

[cdkayak]

Personally, not the type of hunting I'd be interested in. But I will not pass judgment on these guys from a 30 second video and no other information.

Bad mouthing them because it doesn't fit your definition of hunting or sport is the same as the Zumbo comments on ARs & AKs. I've seen enough of this crap at one of the clubs I belong to between the trap, pistol, rifle & cowboy shooters. Let's try to support each others disciplines and interests or we will lose our firearms.

 

[sksguns]

So because the guy took a shot with fancy equipment and people out here can shoot 1,000 yards with iron sights this guy disrespects wildlife? I don't buy it. Who cares how far the shot is from and how much equipment one uses to get the kill. As long as it was safe and he knew where his shots were going so what. It looked to me that he was above his target so even on a miss he would hit the ground close behind his intended target.

Just because you wouldn't do doesn't mean it's not safe for someone else to....

Anyone today who hunts has an unfair advantage over the animal. Tree Stands camouflage and deer scent, turkey calls and all that other crap like rifles and scopes and compuound bows and all the other fancy stuff hunters use is an unfair advantage. So what. The animal dies and someone eats it and so what if they mount the head. People have fish mounted all the time for a trophy.

You want to even it up and sit on a high horse I suggest if you hunt use a spear or a knife. Beyond that it's all to the hunter's advantage.

Just because one disagrees how it's done doesn't mean it's wrong. If it's not for you then don't do it. Let the people who enjoy it have a good time any way they choose to claim their prize as long as it's safe.

 

[dvajda]

Personally, not the type of hunting I'd be interested in. But I will not pass judgment on these guys from a 30 second video and no other information.

Bad mouthing them because it doesn't fit your definition of hunting or sport is the same as the Zumbo comments on ARs & AKs. I've seen enough of this crap at one of the clubs I belong to between the trap, pistol, rifle & cowboy shooters. Let's try to support each others disciplines and interests or we will lose our firearms.

You hit the nail on the head, the problem comes down to losing our firearms. I'm more worried about such videos being seen by anti-hunters and anti-gun people. Or maybe wounded animals being filmed/encountered after such types of hunting. Then we are all in trouble as they try to take away hunting and our guns because of "the poor wounded animals" and our "thoughtless and inhumane hunting methods."

 

[Wingwiper]

Derek

Most Deer shots are made under 150 yards in New England, that doesn't mean ALL, for there are times you may be in an area like the Northeast Kingdom and be shooting from one pasture to another.
If these guys want to have Challenges, let them shoot Gophers at 600 meters.
Also I am not trying to be disrespectful to any poster and if I am, I apoligise. I think this type of debate is good and very needed, I will keep civil and if I have gone over the edge I am Sorry.

Devajda

They can claim anything and I truly doubt it is even close to 890 yards. As I said in an earlier post, I have spent many many hours on a 600 meter line and that seems further than what I am watching in those videos.


Everyone else

Yes! there does need to be some Code of Ethnics in Hunting.. Would you allow hunting with a Hand Grenade? a 105mm? a Mini Gun? a Fighter Plane? a Gatlin Gun? Punt Guns? Many states don't allow BAITING, shooting over water, Stalking etc why? At what limit does it become obscene and no longer a Moral Sport? What is wrong with having Pride, Honor and Respect in a Hunt? Would the Sportsman not gain a whole lot more support from the Opposition if we showed Common Sense in our Skills? I do agree the animal today is at a very much disadvantage from the hunter and I enjoy Muzzle Loading for the reason it equals things out a bit. $1000 Scopes, $2000 Rifles, Spotting Scopes, Precise Hand Loads and now Fort Apache set up on a hillside. Why not tie the animal to a stake in the ground? Ethnics should be a very important part of what we teach future hunters. By the way, the people I claimed in posts who were able to make such a shot, did it UNSUPPORTED and not from a friggin Bench. Bench shooting is many times more easy than UNSUPPORTED, no sport at al not even a GOOD shot under those circumstances. I am a Hunter, I also feel the animal I am hunting deserves some respect.

 

[bpm990d]

You hit the nail on the head, the problem comes down to losing our firearms. I'm more worried about such videos being seen by anti-hunters and anti-gun people. Or maybe wounded animals being filmed/encountered after such types of hunting. Then we are all in trouble as they try to take away hunting and our guns because of "the poor wounded animals" and our "thoughtless and inhumane hunting methods."

You have a what-if thought process that is no different than Zumbo. What the hell do you think anti-hunters and anti gunners already do. Your hunting is ok and it will be safe if we run these guys out on a rail. Yeah, that works every time.

B

 

[Admin]

Wingwiper,

I wasn't talking to anybody in particular. I just noticed this thread was getting a little fast and I wanted to make sure nobody took any shots at anybody.

I would love the chance to drop a deer at 600 yards +. I would have to be pretty desperate to take a shot like that. Myself I would probably wait for a closer one even if that meant going the whole weekend without a shot. If I thought I could drop a deer at 600+ you bet your ass I would squeeze slowly.

 

[PatMcD]

Wingwiper, don't feel to ganged-up on. Everybody has their points of view. If I read you correctly, you don't think this type of hunting is ethical. At what point would it be ethically correct to hunt in this fashion? Take away the bench? No scopes? Blackpowder only? Ranges under 300yds? Some people might say "hunting from tree stands is too much like a deer ambush". Or "sneaking up on a deer and shooting it while it's looking the other way is cheating". Or "shooting partridge is too easy with a 12 gauge so everyone should use a .410".
Calling anothers hunting method unethical, even if it is safe and legal, gives anti-hunters a wedge issue to try and divide us. There are more of them than there is of us, so we need to stand together.

 

[Wingwiper]

Derek

Ok, glad it wasn't me, I do tend to get fired up in a debate but never mean any disrespect to anyone.

Derek, I see your GOLD and I have no doubt you could drop a Deer with a WELL PLACED, UNSUPPORTED Shot at 600 meters and with IRON SIGHTS.

I did NOT see a SAFE Shot for even if he is shotting downhill, shots can richochette into the buildings further back.

 

[Admin]

All of my "rifle" shots at whitetails have been from tree stands. The only time I have taken a shot on the ground standing was when I was hunting with a 12gauge slugs.

 

[Dirtypacman]

I am sure if I plugged some holes in a target from +500 yards I would not be that impressed with the hunter's video but since I have not I thought it was some nice shooting.

I have no real comment as to the OP and this thread but as to long range shooting:

Just get me to a range 500+ yards so I can give some a paper a scare from that far away... I would love to be able to learn to shoot at larger distances but my range time is limited and its hard to find a range with that much distance.

 

[Wingwiper]

PatMcd

Deer hunting is a controlled type of hunting. My License fees and fines pay for the Deer Management etc. We are NOT talking Gopher hunting that have NO BAG LIMIT. What these guys are doing is very unethical and should NOT be allowed when hunting a Managed species, period. The only thing I saw in the Video that showed any compliance with Hunting Guidelines is the ORANGE HAT. Vermont doesn't allow you to shoot within 25 feet of the traveled portion of any roadway. LONG RANGE Deer hunting is not like Priarie Dog hunting in the vast open plains of the U.S., it encourages more powerful firearms and longer range projectiles which rules safety out. Mostly in the envirmoent that Video clearly shows. Deer are a Managed species and there should be certain restrictions and there is, in Vermont unless you are wheelchair bound can NOT hunt with a CROSSBOW why? Deer hunting, because it is a controlled species should ONLY be hunted with what the shooter can carry into the woods. Bear hunting you can not Bait or relay your dogs, WHY? Deer hunting doesn't allow you to put up a SALT LICK Why? WHY? because you are increasing the disadvantages over a Managed Species. Hell! you can't use Cherry Bombs in fishing why? or TNT? or Snarls? or certain types of traps aren't legal, why? ALl has to do with ETHICS and Managed species. You can't just say "Ok! boys you can hunt with anything you want and by any means you want" I do not agree with Zumbo, but he was referring to Semi Auto firearms, if he was refering to Full Auto Firearms, I would have agreed with him because SAFETY and Common Sense would have been absent.
You should not shoot a Duck or a Goose in a field why? There is NO LAW against it, just the majority of Duck and Goose hunters have ethics.
Take away the bench and all of the fancy stuff and I would say, GO FOR IT. Let him keep his RIFLE and SCOPE and even his SPOTTING SCOPE, but the bench and seat? no way... that is over the edge for me. Let him use a stump or anything Natural...... Put the SPORT back in the HUNT.. ANYONE can accomplish what he did, anyone That is not what Hunting is all about and it isn't what I try and teach the yung replacement hunters.

 

[cdkayak]

...We are NOT talking Golpher hunting taht have NO BAG LIMIT...

Damn, the links in VT must be getting seriously overcrowded if they've removed the bag limits on golfers!

 

[Wingwiper]

CDkayak

It should have an L in it......... Sounds like it does.....

 

[PatMcD]

Most par-5's are 600yds or less, too. The challenge comes when hunting the dog-legs.

 

[bpm990d]

Just get me to a range 500+ yards so I can give some a paper a scare from that far away... I would love to be able to learn to shoot at larger distances but my range time is limited and its hard to find a range with that much distance.

Nashua has a clinic Just let them know you need a rifle and ammo. They have loaner rifles. I think there is a small charge for ammo.

April

28th CMP Service Rifle Clinic 7:30am - 6pm
Adults $20.00
Juniors FREE

29th CMP NMC match 8am - 5pm
Adults $10.00
Juniors $5.00

B

 

[Martlet]

PatMcd

Deer hunting is a controlled type of hunting. My License fees and fines pay for the Deer Management etc. We are NOT talking Gopher hunting that have NO BAG LIMIT. What these guys are doing is very unethical and should NOT be allowed when hunting a Managed species, period. The only thing I saw in the Video that showed any compliance with Hunting Guidelines is the ORANGE HAT. Vermont doesn't allow you to shoot within 25 feet of the traveled portion of any roadway. LONG RANGE Deer hunting is not like Priarie Dog hunting in the vast open plains of the U.S., it encourages more powerful firearms and longer range projectiles which rules safety out. Mostly in the envirmoent that Video clearly shows. Deer are a Managed species and there should be certain restrictions and there is, in Vermont unless you are wheelchair bound can NOT hunt with a CROSSBOW why? Deer hunting, because it is a controlled species should ONLY be hunted with what the shooter can carry into the woods. Bear hunting you can not Bait or relay your dogs, WHY? Deer hunting doesn't allow you to put up a SALT LICK Why? WHY? because you are increasing the disadvantages over a Managed Species. Hell! you can't use Cherry Bombs in fishing why? or TNT? or Snarls? or certain types of traps aren't legal, why? ALl has to do with ETHICS and Managed species. You can't just say "Ok! boys you can hunt with anything you want and by any means you want" I do not agree with Zumbo, but he was referring to Semi Auto firearms, if he was refering to Full Auto Firearms, I would have agreed with him because SAFETY and Common Sense would have been absent.
You should not shoot a Duck or a Goose in a field why? There is NO LAW against it, just the majority of Duck and Goose hunters have ethics.
Take away the bench and all of the fancy stuff and I would say, GO FOR IT. Let him keep his RIFLE and SCOPE and even his SPOTTING SCOPE, but the bench and seat? no way... that is over the edge for me. Let him use a stump or anything Natural...... Put the SPORT back in the HUNT.. ANYONE can accomplish what he did, anyone That is not what Hunting is all about and it isn't what I try and teach the yung replacement hunters.

From reading your post, I'd say you don't know that much about hunting. In fact, you fall into the same pool as most of the anti-gun crowd. Why? They use the same reasoning that you do. YOU don't think it's right, so there should be a law against. YOU think it's unethical so nobody should do it.

Perhaps you should call Cabela's and tell them to stop selling goose decoys that nobody uses because they don't shoot geese in fields.

 

[Wingwiper]

Martlet


The Duck and Goose hunters that I know, hunt in Blinds, on the water with Dogs and the decoys are used to get the birds to the water. In the Midwest the laws may differ.

I don't much about hunting? you got that from reading my post? How interesting.. Having Ethics in Hunting doesn't mean one belongs to a ANTI-GUN Crowd, good God.. how do you conclude that?

Have you answered any of the WHYs in my posts? So why can'rt you bait a Bear or relay your dogs? Why can't you use a SALT LICK? WHy can't you use a Cherry Bomb to fish with?

 

[Martlet]

Martlet


The Duck and Goose hunters that I know, hunt in Blinds, on the water with Dogs and the decoys are used to get the birds to the water. In the Midwest the laws may differ.

Who said anything about laws? You said ethics.

I don't much about hunting? you got that from reading my post? How interesting..

Yep.

Having Ethics in Hunting doesn't mean one belongs to a ANTI-GUN Crowd, good God.. how do you conclude that?

I'll rephrase my statement. You SOUND like the anti-gun crowd. You use the same logic. Because YOU don't agree with it, you want it legislated so NOBODY can do it. That isn't ethics. It's idiocy.

Have you answered any of the WHYs in my posts? So why can'rt you bait a Bear or relay your dogs? Why can't you use a SALT LICK? WHy can't you use a Cherry Bomb to fish with?

Your questions have nothing to do with my statement.

 

[bpm990d]

I think he knows a lot about hunting, but I agree with you on this.

YOU don't think it's right, so there should be a law against. YOU think it's unethical so nobody should do it.

Honestly I wouldn't hunt with you Wingwiper. Too much chance to wound an animal when you shoot standing with iron sighted rifles. Someone should make a law about that.

I might hit the links with you though. No mulligans.

B

 

[Martlet]

I think he knows a lot about hunting,

He apparently doesn't know many states allow baiting bear, hunting with crossbows, and some even allow baiting deer. Add that to not shooting geese in fields (wtf??) and I come to the conclusion that outside his own little hunting world, he knows jack.

 

[bpm990d]

He apparently doesn't know many states allow baiting bear, hunting with crossbows, and some even allow baiting deer. Add that to not shooting geese in fields (wtf??) and I come to the conclusion that outside his own little hunting world, he knows jack.

No argument from me.

 

[Dirtypacman]

Nashua has a clinic Just let them know you need a rifle and ammo. They have loaner rifles. I think there is a small charge for ammo.

April

28th CMP Service Rifle Clinic 7:30am - 6pm
Adults $20.00
Juniors FREE

29th CMP NMC match 8am - 5pm
Adults $10.00
Juniors $5.00

B

Thanks for the useful information - Im sure they let you bring your own right?

 

[bpm990d]

Thanks for the useful information - Im sure they let you bring your own right?

Yes.

B