Looking for a Hassle-free Club to Join on the North Shore

[M1911]

I've written club safety rules. I've enforced them. I've removed members from a club due to safety violations.

I'm an NRA certified instructor and range safety officer. I'm also an IDPA safety officer and have disqualified competitors for safety violations.

So I know all about safety.

But your implication that you can't have a safe range without range officers is false.

 

[Glockster30]

I've written club safety rules. I've enforced them. I've removed members from a club due to safety violations.

I'm an NRA certified instructor and range safety officer. I'm also an IDPA safety officer and have disqualified competitors for safety violations.

So I know all about safety.

But your implication that you can't have a safe range without range officers is false.

I never stated that you can't have a safe range without a RO. If it was implied, then I worded it wrong or you read it wrong. I explained how it is at my club. I doubt your club would put up with people handling guns while people are down range or doing muzzle sweeps, would it?

 

[M1911]

I never stated that you can't have a safe range without a RO. If it was implied, then I worded it wrong or you read it wrong. I explained how it is at my club.

This is what you wrote when he said he wouldn't join a club that required range officers to be present:

That's your choice (and possibly your life) making that decision. People do stupid shit that is dangerous.

You are clearly implying that a range without range officers is unsafe. And do me a favor and stop using strawman arguments like this:

I doubt your club would put up with people handling guns while people are down range or doing muzzle sweeps, would it?

Yes, people do unsafe things and when they do they need to be called on it. But you don't need safety officers to do that. If a club wants to require them, that is their business. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem when you start implying that you can't run a range safely without them.

Also, in the incident that was discussed above, the rule itself is fine. The safety officer's behavior enforcing it was not fine.

 

[Glockster30]

This is what you wrote when he said he wouldn't join a club that required range officers to be present:



You are clearly implying that a range without range officers is unsafe. And do me a favor and stop using strawman arguments like this:



Yes, people do unsafe things and when they do they need to be called on it. But you don't need safety officers to do that.

Because I'm concerned about safety, I'm outing myself? There are ranges with and without ROs that attract weird people. I have shot numerous times at HSC and have seen some bad things happen there too. Using actual examples is not a straw man argument. A straw man argument is based on a fallacy. In general, people tend to use this phrase when they think that they have refuted a "false" argument.

If people want to shoot at a sand pit, then go right ahead. If someone doesn't want to join a club because they can't follow safety rules, then that is their choice. With the stuff that I have seen at Bob's in Salisbury, you are absolutely placing your life in danger. Do me a favor, and stop making statements that someone is outing themselves because (s)he is concerned about gun safety.

 

[ckaminski]

Hopkinton Sportsman's Assoc. I know of a few folks from the Reading/Burlington area who make the trek.

I can't think of a single bullshit rule.

 

[ckaminski]

"We have the fewest rules around." .

You don't have to have the fewest rules around - Hopkinton doesn't - but the rules make sense and aren't arbitrary bullshit.

Woburns 1 round sorta makes sense - there's a housing complex just on the other side of the 200y berm - and noise *IS* going to be a problem for them if people start doing 20 round magdumps. Hopkinton used to have a 5 round rule for this reason - and that's a much better rule than 1 round at a time.

 

[M1911]

Because I'm concerned about safety, I'm outing myself? There are ranges with and without ROs that attract weird people. I have shot numerous times at HSC and have seen some bad things happen there too. Using actual examples is not a straw man argument. A straw man argument is based on a fallacy. In general, people tend to use this phrase when they think that they have refuted a "false" argument.

If people want to shoot at a sand pit, then go right ahead. If someone doesn't want to join a club because they can't follow safety rules, then that is their choice. With the stuff that I have seen at Bob's in Salisbury, you are absolutely placing your life in danger. Do me a favor, and stop making statements that someone is outing themselves because (s)he is concerned about gun safety.

You are outing yourself because you imply that a club isn't safe unless it has range officers. You are outing yourself because you now say that people who disagree with you are not concerned with safety.

If you saw bad things happen at HSC, did you stop the behavior in question? Did you contact the president?

 

[Glockster30]

You are outing yourself because you imply that a club isn't safe unless it has range officers. You are outing yourself because you now say that people who disagree with you are not concerned with safety.

If you saw bad things happen at HSC, did you stop the behavior in question? Did you contact the president?

Keep reading into things all you want and stop using straw man arguments about HSC. You wouldn't answer my question about your club because it was a straw man argument (and you wouldn't answer my question about your club. Things happen at both non-RO ranges and RO ranges. If we cannot agree on that, then this thread is BS. I guess gun safety is inherently wrong for an RO and an NRA instructor to be concerned about. You are the mod and I was correctly called out by the you. You win. Are you happy now?

 

[Varmint]

Stop being ridiculous. If you can't handle firearm safety regulations at a club, then you shouldn't be shooting there. As I said, I've seen people reach for their guns when people are down range, and witnessed many muzzle sweeps (some at me) as well. I was also present inside the Trap gun house when someone "accidently" blew the over door off the stove, when about a dozen people were there.

Was this at Danvers? Just messin' with you, my issue is my time is very limited, I don't want to go to the club and hope there's a RO on duty. And I'd never be able to use the steel plates since the hours are so limited.

I also don't think we need nannies following us around even in a private shooting club. We go there to escape that stuff.

 

[Varmint]

Woburns 1 round sorta makes sense - there's a housing complex just on the other side of the 200y berm - and noise *IS* going to be a problem for them if people start doing 20 round magdumps.

you mean Mass Rifle in Woburn right, not Woburn Sportsman? I don't think the latter has a 1 round rule.

 

[Glockster30]

Was this at Danvers? Just messin' with you, my issue is my time is very limited, I don't want to go to the club and hope there's a RO on duty. And I'd never be able to use the steel plates since the hours are so limited.

I also don't think we need nannies following us around even in a private shooting club. We go there to escape that stuff.

I agree with your statement. I don't like the steel plate hours or the indoor range hours either, but although members made efforts to change the hours, it hasn't work. It's just a fact of life that no club is going to meet the needs of all the members or those that wish to be members.

 

[jasons]

That's your choice (and possibly your life) making that decision. People do stupid shit that is dangerous.

Personally I wouldn't want to join a club that takes dipshits that need RO babysitting in as members.

 

[Glockster30]

Personally I wouldn't want to join a club that takes dipshits that need RO babysitting in as members.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way at Danvers, but that is your choice to shoot wherever your heart desires. A person that wants to join requires two members to sponsor him/her. After being accepted, if one is a dipshit, then (s)he is dealt with as noted by 1911.

 

[MisterHappy]

Range safety is the responsibility of all shooters, not just ones with titles.

I've called out safety violations

My then-13-year old called out an adult on a safety violation on the rifle range

An RSO with a patch or pin would not have stopped these - just as a law won't stop someone ignorant of it or who doesn't care.

 

[M1911]

Exactly, Mister Happy.

 

[drgrant]

All I know is that like 9 out of 10 times, when a private club requires an active RO to be present for members to shoot, it's usually a crappy club.

Most of the clubs inside the 128 belt have awful rules that makes the facilities nearly unusable or marginally usable. I'd rather drive 2 hours before I intentionally subjected myself to any of that stuff. The few that don't are either obscure or are difficult to get into. You get west of 128 and the rules become more like:

-The neighbors get pissed off so please only shoot between 10 am and sundown.
-Don't be retarded and play with guns when others are downrange. Don't point guns at yourself other people.
-Make sure all bullets fired go into the backstop (or at worse, the ground in front of it, LOL)
-Don't shoot things that catch the woods on fire.
-Don't leave trash on the range
-Have a nice day


-Mike

 

[Glockster30]

All I know is that like 9 out of 10 times, when a private club requires an active RO to be present for members to shoot, it's usually a crappy club.

Most of the clubs inside the 128 belt have awful rules that makes the facilities nearly unusable or marginally usable. I'd rather drive 2 hours before I intentionally subjected myself to any of that stuff. The few that don't are either obscure or are difficult to get into. You get west of 128 and the rules become more like:

-The neighbors get pissed off so please only shoot between 10 am and sundown.
-Don't be retarded and play with guns when others are downrange. Don't point guns at yourself other people.
-Make sure all bullets fired go into the backstop (or at worse, the ground in front of it, LOL)
-Don't shoot things that catch the woods on fire.
-Don't leave trash on the range
-Have a nice day


-Mike

I think that the range has to be extended (no pun intended) out to the 495 belt. I've been to clubs with more strict regulations/guidelines than my own club outside Rt. 128, and we can shoot starting at 9 am (not 10 am), and 9 pm on some ranges that are lighted.

In general, the clubs with the guidelines you mentioned are generally smaller clubs. For example, Barre Sportsman's Club limits membership to 150. At my club, membership is capped at 2,000. The outdoor range (pistol/long gun combined) is in excess of 200' wide, so on a busy day there could be more than 50 shooters on the line (I think there are 70 or more stations altogether). In my opinion, that is lot of shooters for one range officer to maintain safety, so I would disagree that it is a "crappy club" because a RO is required to monitor that large of an shooting arena.

Furthermore, think about how difficult it would be for 50 shooters to police themselves that extend out over a 200' wide shooting line. At a smaller club, with maybe 10 shooting stations or less, then it's much easier for the shooters to police each other with regard to safety. Therefore, for someone to say that they "outed themselves just before Christmas" because they shoot at a club with a RO, or implied that a range is dangerous without an RO is just plain nonsense.

Different clubs have varying needs and guidelines, so there are going to be rules/guidelines that seem arcane (even to me). For example, at the Andover Sportsman's Club, the guideline is that you can load a revolver (a 686 with 7 rounds, or a .22 with 10 rounds) to full capacity, but with a semi-auto, one is restricted to 5 rounds. In addition, IIRC, Andover only has 5 or so rifle benches and maybe 8-10 pistol stations. That is a hell of a lot less smaller than Danvers, which again, makes it much easier for members to police themselves.

Therefore, when comparing clubs, one needs to compare apples to apples. In addition, lest we all forget, almost all club regulations/guidelines are in place to reduce liability.

 

[Varmint]

Does anyone know if Andover Sportsman allows drawing from a holster? I'm guessing not, with the 5 round rule.

Also I think I heard they're building a new outdoor and indoor range, but can't find where I read that.

 

[grizquad]

Does anyone know if Andover Sportsman allows drawing from a holster? I'm guessing not, with the 5 round rule.

Also I think I heard they're building a new outdoor and indoor range, but can't find where I read that.

Varmint, No Andover does not allow drawing from holster. Yes they are building a new outside pistol range, but not building a new inside range. The current rifle 100 yard will be extended to 200 yards. The deep freeze has slowed construction, but probably done this summer.

 

[Varmint]

Varmint, No Andover does not allow drawing from holster. Yes they are building a new outside pistol range, but not building a new inside range. The current rifle 100 yard will be extended to 200 yards. The deep freeze has slowed construction, but probably done this summer.

Thanks! - good news about the ranges, especially 200 yard outdoor. I need to get my application in this month.

 

[maxreloader]

I seriously can't believe how bad it is on the northshore these days. I used to go to Danvers Fish and Game many years ago with my father and it was a great experience. These days I drive to South Berwick (15 mins from Kittery Trading Post in Maine) and you can shoot your 50 BMG if you want! I see lots of Mass, NH, and Maine plates there. I can't imagine the frustration you all must feel. Any member can take up to 2 guests EVERY visit, those are the rules. This entire thread makes me appreciate what I have even more.