MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[Woodsloafer]

If there is any grandfathering it won't go past 2016 (and very likely won't be anything except pre federal awb) that still leaves 6 years of purchases putting owners at risk.
But if own only owns the magic pixie dust, unicorn farting Reptile lowers then that's someone else's problem.

Lack of grandfathering places a request for injunction for all current at a very likely to be granted.
If there is even a partial grandfathering the likelihood of an injunction against the AWB update is highly unlikely.
So for those wanting grandfathering know that you are placing newcomers at higher risk in order to gain some temporary security.

Yup, that is what I am thinking as well, anything past 2016 will be "verboten".

Enforcing the Massachusetts Assault Weapons Ban

Learn about the Assault Weapons Ban Enforcement Notice issued by the Attorney General's Office on July 20, 2016.

www.mass.gov

 

[chris_1001]

I would argue the fact you can “register”an AR 15 in the portal , even today as a goverment approval.

Is that providing self incrimination evidence by fa-10’ing a non compliant gun? If so 5th amendment rules apply…

Asking for a friend…

 

[Love Machine]

I would argue the fact you can “register”an AR 15 in the portal , even today as a goverment approval.

Yup.

 

[bigbravehog]

Yup, that is what I am thinking as well, anything past 2016 will be "verboten".

Enforcing the Massachusetts Assault Weapons Ban

Learn about the Assault Weapons Ban Enforcement Notice issued by the Attorney General's Office on July 20, 2016.

www.mass.gov

Which begs the question, if you purchased a still legal "pre-Healy" AR post 2016, what's the legal status of that rifle ?

 

[VTski4x4]

Which begs the question, if you purchased a still legal "pre-Healy" AR post 2016, what's the legal status of that rifle ?

Legal. A lot of folks seem to forget that we fought Healey on this, and at the end of the day the courts said "well, she can't change laws as AG, and she hasn't prosecuted anyone for this, so until she does, our hands are tied." 2016 isn't a law, never was, and still hasn't been passed as one.

 

[Picton]

Which begs the question, if you purchased a still legal "pre-Healy" AR post 2016, what's the legal status of that rifle ?

It doesn't matter. What matters is whether they think it's worth their while to go after it.

They will not. There is no upside for them and plenty of constitutional downside. Nothing would get this enjoined faster than the state confiscating property that was legal when it was purchased, and all the post-Healy rifles are legal under the statute.

They're not dumb. They rely on fear, not follow-through, and usually fear is enough for them because many of us are cowards. We should stop that.

 

[bigbravehog]

Legal. A lot of folks seem to forget that we fought Healey on this, and at the end of the day the courts said "well, she can't change laws as AG, and she hasn't prosecuted anyone for this, so until she does, our hands are tied." 2016 isn't a law, never was, and still hasn't been passed as one.

Correct. I fully understand that. My question was rhetorical. Our understanding of legal vs. their understanding is vastly different.

 

[bigbravehog]

It doesn't matter. What matters is whether they think it's worth their while to go after it.

They will not. There is no upside for them and plenty of constitutional downside. Nothing would get this enjoined faster than the state confiscating property that was legal when it was purchased, and all the post-Healy rifles are legal under the statute.

They're not dumb. They rely on fear, not follow-through, and usually fear is enough for them because many of us are cowards. We should stop that.

Agreed. I had a conversation with my BIL recently and he was pantshitting about this bill and worried they would go to the level of confiscation. I told him to calm down and enjoy life.

 

[DJBrad]

…… calm down and enjoy life.

Yes sir. That’s my mantra. Ain’t nobody gonna break my stride. Ain’t nobody gonna hold me down.

 

[aphextwin11]

Ask them about the meaning of “shall not” while you are at it.

Lmaoooo

We live in a "may not" state though...

 

[Reptile]

Which begs the question, if you purchased a still legal "pre-Healy" AR post 2016, what's the legal status of that rifle ?

If her guidance as she wrote in the FAQ in the enforcement letter becomes law - a pre Healey can be transferred.

It also has a lifetime warranty as stated in her FAQ.

If it breaks, it can be replaced by the manufacturer.

She means that if the pre Healey lower blows up it can be replaced with an identical lower.

This is all in her FAQ.

If her edict becomes law the FAQ has all the details.

She also states that a post Healey AR lower can be made into a 22LR.

 

[dcmdon]

Is that providing self incrimination evidence by fa-10’ing a non compliant gun? If so 5th amendment rules apply…

Asking for a friend…

Not really. Healey's guidance has zero force of law. If it did, they wouldn't need to codify it in the new bills.

They also would have prosecuted some of the dealers that have been literally daring her to try for the last 7 years.

 

[dcmdon]

They're not dumb. They rely on fear, not follow-through, and usually fear is enough for them because many of us are cowards. We should stop that.

And it worked for a while. For the first few years after her guidance, pre-Healey ARs commanded a premium.

Then dealers started selling ARs again, and nothing happened. Nobody got prosecuted.
Now, you would have to be a fool to pay a premium for a pre-Healey AR.

So we were cowards until the brave showed us the way.

 

[Reptile]

And it worked for a while. For the first few years after her guidance, pre-Healey ARs commanded a premium.

Then dealers started selling ARs again, and nothing happened. Nobody got prosecuted.
Now, you would have to be a fool to pay a premium for a pre-Healey AR.

So we were cowards until the brave showed us the way.

I don't know how brave they were but the ones who selling post Healey AR lowers were selling at 2x retail.

3rd Gen Post Healey Noveske's were going for $750 at the time.

If they were so brave they would have flooded the market with $25 Anderson's but they were charging $80.

I guess they charged that sort of money to make a profit.

Lets see if the dealers offer refunds if a law passes that they are to be turned in.

 

[Da_lucche]

I don't know how brave they were but the ones who selling post Healey AR lowers were selling at 2x retail.

3rd Gen Post Healey Noveske's were going for $750 at the time.

If they were so brave they would have flooded the market with $25 Anderson's but they were charging $80.

I guess they charged that sort of money to make a profit.

Lets see if the dealers offer refunds if a law passes that they are to be turned in.

I mean stripped AM15 lowers go for $48 online which does not including shipping fees and your FFL transfer charge. I've seen a few MA dealers selling the same lower in the $80 to $99 range. I wouldn't say they are marking them up too severely.

 

[oldguy68]

Coming from a state that encourages illegal aliens to come here. Then assists and house them in their illegal stay.
While our homeless roam the streets with no where to go and left wondering when their next meal may be.

The cops and robbers game our law enforcement and courts play with the real criminals.
Slaps in the wrists for criminals with multiple firearm charges.
All the while threatening and stripping away the rights of the law abiding firearm owner.

The state marijuana board that makes a federal crime legal here. Then dissolving all marijuana criminal convictions.
While the DEA of the federal govt. stand by and do nothing.

Our state and nation owes it's entire existence in the first place because of citizen firearm ownership..
America will cease to exist when it's citizens aren't allowed to own them anymore.

There is a shortage of young men and women joining the armed forces.
Because of the treatment and misguided direction of the current leadership.

Patriotism is at an all time low and political corruption is becoming clearer everyday thanks to more available information.

America will become a lawless playground for criminals. With it's citizens, like in most war zones paying the ultimate price.

 

[oldguy68]

One last thought for everyone.
So every firearm owner in this state is being labeled as an evil person for simply possessing said firearms.
But we as citizens employ other citizens to posses them in the course of their jobs.
So they must be evil as well, by using the same said logic.
All the while those evil people we employ are protecting those that are truly evil..

 

[pastera]

I would argue the fact you can “register”an AR 15 in the portal , even today as a goverment approval.

That argument would fail
You can't be prosecuted for not registering an illegal AW (Haynes v US), you can still wave your 5th amendment rights and admit to wrongdoing voluntarily.
That the state fails to immediately prosecute doesn't mean the action is legal.
While this would be selective prosecution, it likely would be upheld as permissible as the basis wouldn't not be on age, race, religion, sex, gender or political alignment.
It would be argued that the state considered the possession of a registered AW by otherwise law abiding licensed gun owners as a secondary charge and now is updating their prosecution standards to a primary charge which is well within current law (secondary only charges are specifically called out as such in law)

 

[pastera]

Which begs the question, if you purchased a still legal "pre-Healy" AR post 2016, what's the legal status of that rifle ?

If you critically read the Healy statement ALL AR/AK platform guns are assault weapons and cannot be made compliant with the law, period.

Therefore anything post federal AWB is illegal in Massachusetts with the caveat that in 2016 the AG declared the state would not pursue charges for otherwise lawful owners.

So the manufacturer/purchase date of the gun doesn't matter unless it predates the federal AWB enactment.
If you own a post ban enumerated gun, it is an illegal AW per the interpretation of Massachusetts government and cannot be modified to comply except by destruction.
That's their position and they are codifying it into the proposed law.
They may introduce a clause that exempts "assault weapons" that were registered prior to July 2016. The question remains is if they do that whether you can deMassify them into freedom guns at that point.

 

[pastera]

I would argue the fact you can “register”an AR 15 in the portal , even today as a goverment approval.

Look up the federal marijuana tax stamp.
Damned if you comply and if you don't.

 

[1903Collector]

If we don't get grandfathering short term, anyone with a post Maura edict gun risks becoming a prohibited person by means of violating the AWB.

That is a very real concern, and while every line is an infringement on rights, they can force it through with their majority and turn us all into felons with or without our tacit approval.

Just like any person who caught a charge in the last 50 years for possession of marijuana, it being 'illegal' then means everything despite it being 'legal' now.

It isn't me saying 'grand fathering makes the bill OK'. It's that without it, we will all become prohibited persons while we wait for SCOTUS to look at the case, if they look at the case.

But your already at risk, I don't know the exact wording but didn't Maura's edict basically say we reserve the right to f*** you over if we change our mind for no reason?

 

[Atlantis]

For anyone sh_tting their pants over this.
We the citizens of the commonwealth purchased these arms according to laws at the time of purchase.
We and the FFL's followed the laws as understood at the time of the transaction.
It's our legal property to do as we see fit with said property as long as it is legal by our laws.
One can destroy or modify said items as you see fit. As long as we follow the laws according to said items.
They come for said items and we say we destroyed said items as we have free will to do so and then they have to prove us otherwise.
Just as they did at Barrett's farm in Lexington.

History..Funny how it works...

If I find myself in that wretched situation, I can assure you there will be zero ambiguity about the operable status of said “items”. I highly doubt anyone goes door to door stacking up to support such tyranny, but I do know the proper response (in my opinion) isn’t to roll over and play boating accident. The lines gotta be drawn somewhere.

 

[pastera]

Legal. A lot of folks seem to forget that we fought Healey on this, and at the end of the day the courts said "well, she can't change laws as AG, and she hasn't prosecuted anyone for this, so until she does, our hands are tied." 2016 isn't a law, never was, and still hasn't been passed as one.

That interpretation may not be 100% correct - the court simply stated that until the agency enforces action on an interpretation the court can't consider that interpretation as it is not considered final.
Nowhere did the court determine that the interpretation wasn't valid or enforceable.
Any Mass court would rubber stamp her interpretation.

 

[pastera]

But your already at risk, I don't know the exact wording but didn't Maura's edict basically say we reserve the right to f*** you over if we change our mind for no reason?

AG Healey Announces Enforcement of Ban on Copycat Assault Weapons

In the Wake of Orlando Mass Shooting, AG Healey Warns Gun Makers, Dealers Against Selling Prohibited Assault Weapons in Massachusetts; Clarifies What Constitutes a Copycat Weapon

www.mass.gov

The notice makes clear that the guidance will not be enforced against gun owners who bought or sold these weapons prior to July 20, 2016.

The dispensation from prosecution does not transfer - only the person to whom the gun was registered to prior to July 20, 2016 is exempt from prosecution for possession of that particular gun.
@Reptile - this is for you:
Anyone selling "pre-Healy" is selling a felony trap but you already knew that

 

[Mountain]

Coming from a state that encourages illegal aliens to come here. Then assists and house them in their illegal stay.
While our homeless roam the streets with no where to go and left wondering when their next meal may be.

The cops and robbers game our law enforcement and courts play with the real criminals.
Slaps in the wrists for criminals with multiple firearm charges.
All the while threatening and stripping away the rights of the law abiding firearm owner.

The state marijuana board that makes a federal crime legal here. Then dissolving all marijuana criminal convictions.
While the DEA of the federal govt. stand by and do nothing.

Our state and nation owes it's entire existence in the first place because of citizen firearm ownership..
America will cease to exist when it's citizens aren't allowed to own them anymore.

There is a shortage of young men and women joining the armed forces.
Because of the treatment and misguided direction of the current leadership.

Patriotism is at an all time low and political corruption is becoming clearer everyday thanks to more available information.

America will become a lawless playground for criminals. With it's citizens, like in most war zones paying the ultimate price.

Our shrinking middle class will be pushed upward or downward, mostly downward. Those successful enough to withstand the Marxist money grabs will end up living like white South Africans, in walled compounds with private security funded by HOA fees. They'll need to travel in larger groups for safety. Not being racist here- in the US leftist 'utopia' this will be people of all races within the upper middle class and higher, until you get to the 'elites' whether they are 'elite' via their own efforts or via stealing from the people.

 

[pastera]

Our shrinking middle class will be pushed upward or downward, mostly downward. Those successful enough to withstand the Marxist money grabs will end up living like white South Africans, in walled compounds with private security funded by HOA fees. They'll need to travel in larger groups for safety. Not being racist here- in the US leftist 'utopia' this will be people of all races within the upper middle class and higher, until you get to the 'elites' whether they are 'elite' via their own efforts or via stealing from the people.

This is exactly what will happen.
With the crippling debt exploding each year, the US will quickly fall back to early 20th century big city corruption where organized crime runs protection rackets that control small crime that the government wont/can't.
Only this time the mob won't be European immigrants that share common culture with us.

 

[Da_lucche]

Our shrinking middle class will be pushed upward or downward, mostly downward. Those successful enough to withstand the Marxist money grabs will end up living like white South Africans, in walled compounds with private security funded by HOA fees. They'll need to travel in larger groups for safety. Not being racist here- in the US leftist 'utopia' this will be people of all races within the upper middle class and higher, until you get to the 'elites' whether they are 'elite' via their own efforts or via stealing from the people.

This is exactly what will happen.
With the crippling debt exploding each year, the US will quickly fall back to early 20th century big city corruption where organized crime runs protection rackets that control small crime that the government wont/can't.
Only this time the mob won't be European immigrants that share common culture with us.

You guys realize that "the middle class" was never something that was in the cards for this country prior to WW2 right? It was always lower class and elite prior to WW2 and the only reason the middle class ever materialized was because the US was the last man standing after WW2 with intact industry and infrastructure and it allowed the common man to make a good living, gain assets and save for the future. The ruling elite have been fighting tooth and nail to get rid of it ever since. The last thing the elites want is competition from who they feel are a bunch of plebs with disposable income creeping up on them in economic status. They want us back to being plebs.

 

[dcmdon]

I don't know how brave they were but the ones who selling post Healey AR lowers were selling at 2x retail.

3rd Gen Post Healey Noveske's were going for $750 at the time.

If they were so brave they would have flooded the market with $25 Anderson's but they were charging $80.

I guess they charged that sort of money to make a profit.

Lets see if the dealers offer refunds if a law passes that they are to be turned in.

In the beginning they charged a premium.

Now there are dealers who will sell you stuff at MSRP.

This includes complete rifles. Not just lowers.

 

[Reptile]

AG Healey Announces Enforcement of Ban on Copycat Assault Weapons

In the Wake of Orlando Mass Shooting, AG Healey Warns Gun Makers, Dealers Against Selling Prohibited Assault Weapons in Massachusetts; Clarifies What Constitutes a Copycat Weapon

www.mass.gov

The dispensation from prosecution does not transfer - only the person to whom the gun was registered to prior to July 20, 2016 is exempt from prosecution for possession of that particular gun.
@Reptile - this is for you:
Anyone selling "pre-Healy" is selling a felony trap but you already knew that

I don't think that is true...

Below is information that states they are legal to transfer. There is no felony in doing so.
Links included under the text.

"If a weapon is a copy or duplicate of one of the models enumerated in the law, it is an Assault Weapon. The Enforcement notice will not be applied to possession, ownership or transfer by an individual gun owner of weapons obtained on or before July 20, 2016."

Frequently Asked Questions about the Assault Weapons Ban Enforcement Notice

www.mass.gov

The Infamous 7/20/2016 Enforcement Notice

On July 20, 2016 the office of the MA attorney general released an enforcement notice declaring that the ban-compliant rifles sold in MA since 1994 were now "copycat" weapons, and in violation of the AWB. Since that date, dealers have been prohibited from transferring these rifles to LTC holders, but private sales are still allowed.

The table below shows which assault weapons can be transferred, and how.

The "Assault Weapons" Ban Explained - MassGunOwnership.com

This post explains the Asaault Weapons Ban in Massachusetts.

massgunownership.com

 

[Amputee Marksman]

You can sit here and debate the minutia of the "enforcement notice" and who will/won't be prosecuted till the end of time. The reality is I don't believe or trust a single word of the enforcement notice or any associated FAQ. The bottom line is they are going to do whatever they want and they don't give a damn about any of us. If you keep a low profile and act like a coward they MIGHT leave you alone. Get in their way or make too much noise and draw attention to yourself and they will make an example of you.