MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[not new guy]

You need some flavor of AK, but then I believe everyone needs some flavor of AK.

If you want it future-proofed, a Galil Ace is probably what you're looking for?

I tell myself my Vz covers the ak category but it’s an option. I don’t know anything about the Galil but will do some research. Thanks.

 

[btnh6668]

Have you read the opinions of previous cases in Mass and the 1st circuit?
Grandfathering is used against us and keeps many people on the side line because they are not personally and immediately effected.
Why do you think so many want grandfathering? Because they get to retain rights denied to others withouta fight - they might not be able to get more of the banned guns but they at least have something to no need to fight too hard and risk upsetting the boat.

Who is going to be sidelined? Goal already said they are filling suit. Im sure SAF will either work with GOAL/Comm2A or file a seperate suit. The person who may be subdued by the grandfathering doesn't change the fact that this can only be won in court and the suits will be filed regardless. The opinions of these few will make little to no difference since those people likely don't donate to help the cause anyway. Just sounds more of an argument of emotion then it does practicality. Not trying to pick fights, just stating opinions of myself and many I speak to.

 

[pastera]

Who is going to be sidelined? Goal already said they are filling suit. Im sure SAF will either work with GOAL/Comm2A or file a seperate suit. The person who may be subdued by the grandfathering doesn't change the fact that this can only be won in court and the suits will be filed regardless. The opinions of these few will make little to no difference since those people likely don't donate to help the cause anyway. Just sounds more of an argument of emotion then it does practicality. Not trying to pick fights, just stating opinions of myself and many I speak to.

Human nature dictates that grandfathering takes a segment of the interested population out of the fight.
If this wasn't true you wouldn't see the interest in grandfathering in the discussion here.
Being made a paper felon is strong motivation to fight a hard fight.
Also lack of grandfathering would create a clear course of action to fast track to SCOTUS on multiple grounds as the law would not only go against the 2nd but also Article 1's prohibitions on ex post facto laws.
With grandfathering we need to argue that waiting for the courts to proceed before a person can purchase a specific arm is an impermissible and irreparable harm. And the court will simply say buy something else until a decision is made.
However without grandfathering owners cannot simply wait since they in good faith possessed an arm approved by the state but are now subject to a felony for that same possession by the stroke of a pen.

Why do you think grandfathering was enacted in the federal AWB? Because if not included the courts would have struck down the ban before the ink on president's signature dried.

 

[btnh6668]

Human nature dictates that grandfathering takes a segment of the interested population out of the fight.
If this wasn't true you wouldn't see the interest in grandfathering in the discussion here.
Being made a paper felon is strong motivation to fight a hard fight.
Also lack of grandfathering would create a clear course of action to fast track to SCOTUS on multiple grounds as the law would not only go against the 2nd but also Article 1's prohibitions on ex post facto laws.
With grandfathering we need to argue that waiting for the courts to proceed before a person can purchase a specific arm is an impermissible and irreparable harm. And the court will simply say buy something else until a decision is made.
However without grandfathering owners cannot simply wait since they in good faith possessed an arm approved by the state but are now subject to a felony for that same possession by the stroke of a pen.

Why do you think grandfathering was enacted in the federal AWB? Because if not included the courts would have struck down the ban before the ink on president's signature dried.

Sir I understand everything you are saying and again don't disagree. The fact is that this bill will be filled with so much garbage, the Supreme court is more likely to not hear any of it. You can't just file suit against a whole bill. You have to pick apart sections piece by piece. In theory you can have 50 suits based on this one bill. So while I understand on paper what you are saying, the reality is another. The grandfathering part should be solved at the state level since it violates our own constitution. It won't get resolved there and the Supreme court won't hear it either. The democrats have been stalling court cases going through panels and district courts for years just waiting for the Supreme court to die off so they can put there people in. We will be lucky if even one suit is heard. As long as people believe voting doesn't matter, these victories we are seeing in courts will be short lived.

 

[pastera]

Sir I understand everything you are saying and again don't disagree. The fact is that this bill will be filled with so much garbage, the Supreme court is more likely to not hear any of it. You can't just file suit against a whole bill. You have to pick apart sections piece by piece. In theory you can have 50 suits based on this one bill. So while I understand on paper what you are saying, the reality is another. The grandfathering part should be solved at the state level since it violates our own constitution. It won't get resolved there and the Supreme court won't hear it either. The democrats have been stalling court cases for years just waiting for the Supreme court to die off so they can put there people in. We will be lucky if even one suit is won.

If your position is pure doom and gloom that we cannot win even at the Supreme Court then why even post?

As far as needing to file against parts of the bill, correct - the more you can segment the sections of the bill off the easier it is to present a clear, concise argument that is hard for the court to create an answer to a question not asked.

Grandfathering is NOT a state level issue - It is a federal issue under Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 and Article 1, Section 10, Clause 1.
While it may also violate Mass Article 24, we know that there will be no relief from the SJC given their position on firearms and the very loose and ambiguous wording of the Article. Remember the state's position is that after the onset of the federal AWB there never was a legal method of making an AR/AK platform rifle compliant therefore there is no state action under Article 24 for lack of grandfathering.

 

[John2006]

Anyone ever buy your pre Healey ar15 lower?

Of course not. You know the answer to that.

 

[btnh6668]

If your position is pure doom and gloom that we cannot win even at the Supreme Court then why even post?

As far as needing to file against parts of the bill, correct - the more you can segment the sections of the bill off the easier it is to present a clear, concise argument that is hard for the court to create an answer to a question not asked.

Grandfathering is NOT a state level issue - It is a federal issue under Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 and Article 1, Section 10, Clause 1.
While it may also violate Mass Article 24, we know that there will be no relief from the SJC given their position on firearms and the very loose and ambiguous wording of the Article. Remember the state's position is that after the onset of the federal AWB there never was a legal method of making an AR/AK platform rifle compliant therefore there is no state action under Article 24 for lack of grandfathering.

I can see why it seems doom and gloom from my perspective. This is why I keep pushing people to vote because I do still believe there is a chance. At our current pace, I can honestly say that I believe doom and gloom is what we got coming if we as individuals don't step up. We can't depend on judges going forward to uphold the constitution.

 

[pastera]

I can see why it seems doom and gloom from my perspective. This is why I keep pushing people to vote because I do still believe there is a chance. At our current pace, I can honestly say that I believe doom and gloom is what we got coming if we as individuals don't step up. We can't depend on judges going forward to uphold the constitution.

Preach it, brother.

 

[Picton]

I can see why it seems doom and gloom from my perspective. This is why I keep pushing people to vote because I do still believe there is a chance. At our current pace, I can honestly say that I believe doom and gloom is what we got coming if we as individuals don't step up. We can't depend on judges going forward to uphold the constitution.

...but we can depend on elected politicians?

This is why people think you're preaching doom and gloom, lol.

 

[btnh6668]

Haha yea I get it. I guess my hope is by more people participating there will inherently be more accountability. I have zero trust in politicians to be clear. That said I think our distrust occured when we allowed these people to make careers out of these positions.

 

[LakeTrout]

Nothing more modern than an AR. I’m thinking of it as future proofing, to the extent possible.

The advice I would have is to pick a platform that shares AR15 mags. I know that’s not a ton of advice but I think it’s important. Since AK ammo isn’t cheap anymore, I don’t see a reason to add something like that. Unless you just wanna get one to scratch the itch and have some fun. Then do it by all means.

 

[DarthRevan]

If you can find an LMT or either an LWRC IC-A2 or A5 that should be your goal.

 

[Coda]

Then get rid of the "pre healy" BS in your ads.
$3k for a $238 lower with "documention" is simply preying on the ignorance of those new to guns.
I've had discussions with people screwed over hard by ads like yours who actually believed that they were protecting themselves against a real change in laws.

We shouldn't be preying on the ignorant - we should be teaching them so they understand the actual law. If they still want a BS pre-Healy then that's on them.

The only good thing with your ridiculous pricing is that the price is so high that you can buy a true pre-ban rifle for the price of your stripped lower.

This thread benefits a lot of people who don’t have the time and/or ambition to sift through all the details of this bill.

It is sad that someone would use this thread and forum (with every post) for financial gain through fear and misconception. It seems inappropriate that while we are trying to make some sense of this bill we are being offered $3000 lowers and $100 used mags.

Thanks to those that want to help without trying to fund their retirement.

 

[pastera]

The advice I would have is to pick a platform that shares AR15 mags. I know that’s not a ton of advice but I think it’s important. Since AK ammo isn’t cheap anymore, I don’t see a reason to add something like that. Unless you just wanna get one to scratch the itch and have some fun. Then do it by all means.

My thought is that magazine bans will fall within 18 months and AWB in 24-30 months as long as we can hold onto the SCOTUS. Chances go from 60/40 to 80/20 if there is a sharp increase in violent crime caused by the "migrants"

 

[not new guy]

If you can find an LMT or either an LWRC IC-A2 or A5 that should be your goal.

I'm all squared away as far as ARs go, I just didn't want the rest of the world to move on from buffer tubes and be stuck here in MA with old technology.

 

[AJK129]

I'm all squared away as far as ARs go, I just didn't want the rest of the world to move on from buffer tubes and be stuck here in MA with old technology.

I like my gen 2 mcx, not sure id buy a spear, especially at the price they go for though

 

[alx]

I like my gen 2 mcx, not sure id buy a spear, especially at the price they go for though

I had a chance to shoot one of those at Sig. The rifle has really good balance, recoil feel and controls fit me nicely. The competition version of it (M500 DH3) was even better and I can see myself getting one of those for matches. Their AR10 (Tread) is even better, but at $4k is pushing the acceptance envelope even moreso. Both rifles are seriously overbuilt and I can tell lots of practical thinking (of the military style) went into each one.

 

[Woodsloafer]

They know they can't bruen proof it.
They want bruen resistance so that it can linger long enough to try to replace Thomas and Alito.

Basically they want to fruck us as hard as they can but be just short of rape.

 

[LakeTrout]

My thought is that magazine bans will fall within 18 months and AWB in 24-30 months as long as we can hold onto the SCOTUS. Chances go from 60/40 to 80/20 if there is a sharp increase in violent crime caused by the "migrants"

I really hope you are correct but I’m more pessimistic. I don’t have any faith that SCOTUS will do anything to force states to change their existing laws even if we hold onto it. Spikes in crime and violence from the illegals will lead to more support for totalitarian candidates, laws, and judges. Unfortunately, the majority beg for more control and not less under those circumstances. I think things will continue to get worse.

 

[DEL]

I'm all squared away as far as ARs go, I just didn't want the rest of the world to move on from buffer tubes and be stuck here in MA with old technology.

AK’s were designed in the 1940s and are still totally viable. Nothing wrong with old technology.

 

[LakeTrout]

I'm all squared away as far as ARs go, I just didn't want the rest of the world to move on from buffer tubes and be stuck here in MA with old technology.

Even if they did, I’m not sure they can do measurably better. But I understand your feeling. I feel like that too, but at some point there’s only really so much better something different can do for the application.

 

[CATI]

IDK - getting the feeling the progressives have finally jumped the shark (meaning even liberals are noticing) WRT to governance of this state. The $1B state budget shortfall, declining state revenues, pushback on the MBTA housing legislation (thanks Baker but now Healey/Campbell are doubling down on it), housing 7,500 "migrant" families and all that comes with that, diminished transparency into the executive and legislative branches (even the Glob and Chan 2 are talking about this), elimination of term limits for the Senate President, nomination of an ex-lover as a SJC judge, etc., etc.
If the MA Republican Party could get its sh*t together there is a lot of opportunity to make the Dems wobbly on a number of issues. It may help lessen the Dems focus on this absurd gun legislation if they have to fight other, bigger battles.

They are not worried

 

[Joeldiaz]

My thought is that magazine bans will fall within 18 months and AWB in 24-30 months as long as we can hold onto the SCOTUS. Chances go from 60/40 to 80/20 if there is a sharp increase in violent crime caused by the "migrants"

What is the basis for these timelines?

 

[Ron Jablonski]

They are not worried

View attachment 862823

View: https://youtu.be/f9v4AL3SquY?si=J1ItqnUap8e8oppY

 

[GaryO]

We can't depend on judges going forward to uphold the constitution

In the last decade, judges have become partisan hacks that only think of their respective parties for the most part. Just look at the commonwealth. A judge actively helped an illegal escape from an immigration detainer and she still has her job.

 

[fred6052000]

They are not worried

View attachment 862823

3 stooges!!

 

[pastera]

I really hope you are correct but I’m more pessimistic. I don’t have any faith that SCOTUS will do anything to force states to change their existing laws even if we hold onto it. Spikes in crime and violence from the illegals will lead to more support for totalitarian candidates, laws, and judges. Unfortunately, the majority beg for more control and not less under those circumstances. I think things will continue to get worse.

https://legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/National-Police-Association-Amicus-Brief-Supporting-Harrel-Petitioners.pdf

A well written Amicus brief - take interest in note 13 where they admit while they are not arguing Miller, they believe it to be wrongly held.
As a police association they juxtapose the increase in violent crime with the decrease in police funding as evidence that people not only have the right to bear the banned arms but the necessity to do so to maintain peace and safety for all.

Section II of their brief give a great comparison of the southern states reaction to the civil rights act and the lower courts reaction to Heller and Bruen.

 

[pastera]

What is the basis for these timelines?

Status of cases and requests for Cert in the 3rd, 7th, and 9th circuits. Add to that the cases in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
The number of cases and disposition of cases GVR'd under Bruen that have simply gone off the reservation with findings virtually identical to those that SCOTUS rejected in the original GVR.

Magazine bans are much less of a political hot potato so are more likely to be addressed first with an order to look at AWB cases in light of any magazine ban findings.

 

[silversquirrel]

They are not worried

View attachment 862823

Racist cultural appropriation

 

[JDL]

One or two of them might be deluded enough to think that's possible, but most of them have to know they're against the flow of history? I don't think they're that stupid.

Or maybe they are. Weird.

That stupid and they think they are invincible.