MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[GeorgeMason]

When I am feeling down thinking about maybe fewer future gun owners, I like to take a ride to MFS on a weekend license course training day.

It always cheers me up!

While I love your positive outlook, let's consider a few things about those students taking the classes.
1. Just because they're taking class doesn't mean they'll get the LTC.
2. Just because they get an LTC does not mean they will become gun owners.
3. Even if they end up satisfying 1 and 2, many are still not 2a advocates/allies. Many will still vote dem and think the infringements are "common sense".
There's 500k+ LTC owners and 20kish goal members. Most LTC holders in this state are NOT 2a advocates. There's realistically probably one or two of us in there per class.

 

[EJFudd]

While I love your positive outlook, let's consider a few things about those students taking the classes.
1. Just because they're taking class doesn't mean they'll get the LTC.
2. Just because they get an LTC does not mean they will become gun owners.
3. Even if they end up satisfying 1 and 2, many are still not 2a advocates/allies. Many will still vote dem and think the infringements are "common sense".
There's 500k+ LTC owners and 20kish goal members. Most LTC holders in this state are NOT 2a advocates. There's realistically probably one or two of us in there per class.

You are correct in observing that not all of the LTC course students I see at MFS will go on to become hard-core advocates of the Second Amendment. I don't even have any idea about how many of them will join GOAL or contribute to the many pro-2A advocacy groups. If you read my sister post to the one you quoted, you'd see that I am not very optimistic about the long-term future of 2A. The leftist DimocRAT cancer on America keeps growing and is, in fact, accelerating. Meanwhile, pro-2A SCOTUS decisions are being widely ignored by other, more liberal courts.

On the other hand, I think there is a good chance that the majority of the people paying for and taking the LTC license course in MA will go on to become licensed and own guns. Their choices may be greatly limited under the coming MA anti-gunowner bill, but where there's a will, there's a way... and that gives me hope.

Time will tell, but I see the number of MA LTC holders continuing to grow. Yes, some will be liberals and ignore the forever fight to protect our rights. Nothing I can do about that. But the larger the MA gun-owning population grows, the harder it will be for our political overlords to ignore us.

 

[EJFudd]

I'll reiterate my opinion here....

There will be grandfathering and the politicians know it's required. As such, they are providing very little public insight on to how the bill is progressing so as to avoid the public from stocking up ahead of the passing of the law. When Healey did her press conference it gave a same day notice window . Luckily I grabbed what I could that day back in 2016. Very similar playbook this time around.

At least we are getting plenty of warning that something very bad is coming. That wasn't the case with Maura's big surprise. You are very lucky to have been able to do a last minute grab on 7/20/2016. The 2 shops I had made plans to visit that very day had both gone into total freeze mode by the time I got there.

In regard to grandfathering, I don't think that our lefty DimocRAT pols "know it is required." I don't think they think of it that way at all. Someone with a brain will have to give them the factual pros and cons (I hope it is GOAL and not BloomingTurd & Giffords). They would love to have all of us completely disarmed, but they may decide that is a bridge too far for this current legislation.

Don't fall for their tricks. Buy now.

On this we are in full agreement. Buy now everyone... or wish you had later.

 

[pastera]

It wouldn’t surprise me if we lost in court too tbh

Forgone conclusion that we will 100% lose in district and likely circuit courts.

 

[pastera]

Perhaps but surely they WILL grandfather pre Healey.

This law might end up being just like Healey's edict.

Made to scare us and slow sales BUT NOBODY EVER CHARGED!!!

No one was charged because you can't convict someone on what you want the law to be.

When they pass this thing I guarantee they will go after people while offering plenty of no jail but prohibited plea deals.

 

[pastera]

While I love your positive outlook, let's consider a few things about those students taking the classes.
1. Just because they're taking class doesn't mean they'll get the LTC.
2. Just because they get an LTC does not mean they will become gun owners.
3. Even if they end up satisfying 1 and 2, many are still not 2a advocates/allies. Many will still vote dem and think the infringements are "common sense".
There's 500k+ LTC owners and 20kish goal members. Most LTC holders in this state are NOT 2a advocates. There's realistically probably one or two of us in there per class.

A large percentage of the people HERE aren't textual 2A supporters

 

[Joeldiaz]

A large percentage of the people HERE aren't textual 2A supporters

Ain’t that that truth. Neither is SCOTUS tbh, at least not fully.

 

[June4th]

I find it odd, that MA didn’t enact much of anti legislation in 2013, when momentum certainly was on the anti side post-Newtown, as both CT and NY passed some pretty draconian laws. We fought hard here and actually walked away with a few small victories such as eliminating LTC-B and restrictions on pepper spray.

This time, absent of any catalytic event, it just seems stars were aligned against us and all this crap sausage being made and no way to turn the tide.

 

[Woodsloafer]

You forgot to put a toaster on that thing.

It's his new NH/VT wilderness defense rifle, a toaster would definitely come in handy.

 

[Picton]

In regard to grandfathering, I don't think that our lefty DimocRAT pols "know it is required." I don't think they think of it that way at all. Someone with a brain will have to give them the factual pros and cons (I hope it is GOAL and not BloomingTurd & Giffords).

Again, we have a direct justification from the Speaker of the House (certainly a "lefty DimocRAT," and a highly influential one) that staying out of court is a concern of theirs. He and others in his caucus know quite well what "ex post facto" means.

Don't underestimate these people. They are not idiots. They have goals we disagree with, and they are anticonstitutional bastards, but they do have a plan and they are not ignorant.

 

[Waher]

I am concerned about gun shops being able to weather the storm.

We very well could wind up with mail order guns delivered directly to homes being a common thing again in certain states if the GCG 68 gets dinged by other rulings and Chevron Doctrine gets knocked out so that the BATFe's regulatory power is significantly curtailed back to being a tax enforcement agency.

I find it odd, that MA didn’t enact much of anti legislation in 2013, when momentum certainly was on the anti side post-Newtown, as both CT and NY passed some pretty draconian laws. We fought hard here and actually walked away with a few small victories such as eliminating LTC-B and restrictions on pepper spray.

The legislature wasn't confident of lower courts rubber stamping their unconstitutional edicts after 2008 Heller and 2010 MacDonald. They got more ballsy after Caetano didn't have teeth and other states got away with ignoring Heller and MacDonald until Bruen. Lower courts also now flapping their undersides at Bruen is emboldening legislatures to do every crazy thing they can think off hoping it will be minimally if at all clawed back by relatively friendly kooky courts.

 

[Woodsloafer]

We very well could wind up with mail order guns delivered directly to homes being a common thing again in certain states if the GCG 68 gets dinged by other rulings and Chevron Doctrine gets knocked out so that the BATFe's regulatory power is significantly curtailed back to being a tax enforcement agency.


The legislature wasn't confident of lower courts rubber stamping their unconstitutional edicts after 2008 Heller and 2010 MacDonald. They got more ballsy after Caetano didn't have teeth and other states got away with ignoring Heller and MacDonald until Bruen. Lower courts also now flapping their undersides at Bruen is emboldening legislatures to do every crazy thing they can think off hoping it will be minimally if at all clawed back by relatively friendly kooky courts.

The good ol' days:

 

[EJFudd]

I find it odd, that MA didn’t enact much of anti legislation in 2013, when momentum certainly was on the anti side post-Newtown, as both CT and NY passed some pretty draconian laws. We fought hard here and actually walked away with a few small victories such as eliminating LTC-B and restrictions on pepper spray.

The legislature wasn't confident of lower courts rubber stamping their unconstitutional edicts after 2008 Heller and 2010 MacDonald. They got more ballsy after Caetano didn't have teeth and other states got away with ignoring Heller and MacDonald until Bruen. Lower courts also now flapping their undersides at Bruen is emboldening legislatures to do every crazy thing they can think off hoping it will be minimally if at all clawed back by relatively friendly kooky courts.

The change is/was Bruen. More specifically, the change is how the most rabid lefty states reacted with their crazy Bruen temper tantrums... and then got away with it.

Massachusetts was only a little bit behind the curve (compared to NY et al). The legislature's post-Bruen promise to destroy us was always there (as I've reminded folks a hundred times). Maura just wanted out of the AG's job and to be elected governor first before the sheet hit the fan... plausible deniability for her seething revenge on us.

A key point behind all this is that the lefty moonbat states and liberal courts believe that SCOTUS is going to flip to anti-2A soon enough by one means or another.

 

[Joeldiaz]

A key point behind all this is that the lefty moonbat states and liberal courts believe that SCOTUS is going to flip to anti-2A soon enough by one means or another.

This is not just “a” key point. It’s THE key point. Liberals only need to flip 2 SCOTUS seats to regain control. Justice Alito & Justice Thomas are both on their way out the door any day now. Democrats are banking on Biden beating Trump again so that they can replace Alito & Thomas, or better yet, pack the court.

 

[CMEBoston]

I find it odd, that MA didn’t enact much of anti legislation in 2013, when momentum certainly was on the anti side post-Newtown, as both CT and NY passed some pretty draconian laws. We fought hard here and actually walked away with a few small victories such as eliminating LTC-B and restrictions on pepper spray.

This time, absent of any catalytic event, it just seems stars were aligned against us and all this crap sausage being made and no way to turn the tide.

As the county devolves into lawlessness the government wants us helpless
The catalyst is really that simple

 

[chris_1001]

At least we are getting plenty of warning that something very bad is coming. That wasn't the case with Maura's big surprise. You are very lucky to have been able to do a last minute grab on 7/20/2016. The 2 shops I had made plans to visit that very day had both gone into total freeze mode by the time I got there.

In regard to grandfathering, I don't think that our lefty DimocRAT pols "know it is required." I don't think they think of it that way at all. Someone with a brain will have to give them the factual pros and cons (I hope it is GOAL and not BloomingTurd & Giffords). They would love to have all of us completely disarmed, but they may decide that is a bridge too far for this current legislation.

On this we are in full agreement. Buy now everyone... or wish you had later.

I might have bought 3 lowers on a whim a month before her 7/2016 bs.

Phew (maybe)

 

[June4th]

I might have bought 3 lowers on a whim a month before her 7/2016 bs.

Phew (maybe)

I sold a few lowers to my licensed, but AR-less friends so they could assemble them into rifles before the BS.

 

[Da_lucche]

It's his new NH/VT wilderness defense rifle, a toaster would definitely come in handy.

View attachment 872786

It's actually kind of nice not being on the butthurt side of things for a change - where I can actually be outside with whatever rifle I want and not worry about my neighbor calling the POPO

Still don't get the toaster reference though...

 

[EJFudd]

I might have bought 3 lowers on a whim a month before her 7/2016 bs.

Phew (maybe)

If so, your timing was excellent. Unfortunately for me, Maura took me completely by surprise.

 

[LakeTrout]

It’s pretty sad when a discussion about losing constitutional rights in MA turns into “well in NH you might lose them one day too, so there!”.

 

[Picton]

The change is/was Bruen. More specifically, the change is how the most rabid lefty states reacted with their crazy Bruen temper tantrums... and then got away with it.

Massachusetts was only a little bit behind the curve (compared to NY et al).

But then why, in your opinion, haven't they passed it already?

Because the thing is, they haven't yet...

 

[Joeldiaz]

It’s pretty sad when a discussion about losing constitutional rights in MA turns into “well in NH you might lose them one day too, so there!”.

I mean maybe if people didn’t just go “move to NH” all the time then it probably wouldn’t turn into that, especially when no one even brought up NH initially. Not everyone has the same luxury of just picking up everything and moving to another state. People may be tethered to MA for one reason or another, and quite frankly it’s rather insensitive to those people who are in the thick of it.

 

[Da_lucche]

I mean maybe if people didn’t just go “move to NH” all the time then it probably wouldn’t turn into that, especially when no one even brought up NH initially. Not everyone has the same luxury of just picking up everything and moving to another state. People may be tethered to MA for one reason or another, and quite frankly it’s rather insensitive to those people who are in the thick of it.

Everyone has a choice, Joeldiaz. I have been saying for over 10 years - "shit I wish I lived in NH" - and I took a 33% paycut to move out of MA to NH when I could. But I understand some people are not willing to do that. Shit, I'm still looking at my current paycheck and shaking my head. Lol. But I am something now in NH that I would never be in MA...a home owner.

Honestly, my posts are facetious as f*** and I really hope the best for everyone there in MA.

 

[LakeTrout]

I mean maybe if people didn’t just go “move to NH” all the time then it probably wouldn’t turn into that, especially when no one even brought up NH initially. Not everyone has the same luxury of just picking up everything and moving to another state. People may be tethered to MA for one reason or another, and quite frankly it’s rather insensitive to those people who are in the thick of it.

It’s definitely a solution. I think most people who think they’re tethered are less tethered than they realize.

I’m going to give you all a truth bomb that a lot of people may hate and that’s just fine. But it’s true. MA will never get better. Not with regard to gun rights, not with regard to anything. Don’t anyone believe this shit that GOAL or anyone else can reverse it. They can’t and they won’t. They do a great job and fight a valiant fight. Don’t get me wrong. But the best they do is delay the inevitable.

Either you choose to live where you will be the most happy (which may be in MA), or you don’t. But you’re not changing MA for the better if you’re someone who thinks the direction it has been going for decades now is for the worse. And pretending like NH isn’t a great option isn’t making anyones situation in MA better either.

 

[Picton]

I mean maybe if people didn’t just go “move to NH” all the time then it probably wouldn’t turn into that, especially when no one even brought up NH initially. Not everyone has the same luxury of just picking up everything and moving to another state. People may be tethered to MA for one reason or another, and quite frankly it’s rather insensitive to those people who are in the thick of it.

Like clockwork, a post like this arises about once a day.

The "move to NH!" posts are, indeed, annoying. But so are the responses. It'd be great if we could all just agree, mutually, to stop talking about moving out of Massachusetts. EVERYONE here with over 100 posts has heard it before and it's not helping, either way.

I get it. MA sucks. I don't need to be told that, nor do I need to be gloated at by people who've moved. But those people don't need to be told about family obligations or roots, nor about "wanting to fight." Neither side is changing its mind. It'd be best if we'd all just stop, but in the meantime? I've just learned to ignore the move-to-NH crowd. They're not me, they don't make decisions for me, and I don't need to justify my choices to them.

 

[71montess]

If so, your timing was excellent. Unfortunately for me, Maura took me completely by surprise.

View attachment 872968

I still think they will ok anything bought before this takes effect. It’s buy time.

 

[Da_lucche]

It’s definitely a solution. I think most people who think they’re tethered are less tethered than they realize.

I’m going to give you all a truth bomb that a lot of people may hate and that’s just fine. But it’s true. MA will never get better. Not with regard to gun rights, not with regard to anything. Don’t anyone believe this shit that GOAL or anyone else can reverse it. They can’t and they won’t. They do a great job and fight a valiant fight. Don’t get me wrong. But the best they do is delay the inevitable.

Either you choose to live where you will be the most happy (which may be in MA), or you don’t. But you’re not changing MA for the better if you’re someone who thinks the direction it has been going for decades now is for the worse. And pretending like NH isn’t a great option isn’t making anyones situation in MA better either.

 

[DarthRevan]

But then why, in your opinion, haven't they passed it already?

Because the thing is, they haven't yet...

Which is what I find interesting at this point.

 

[DarthRevan]

Like clockwork, a post like this arises about once a day.

The "move to NH!" posts are, indeed, annoying. But so are the responses. It'd be great if we could all just agree, mutually, to stop talking about moving out of Massachusetts. EVERYONE here with over 100 posts has heard it before and it's not helping, either way.

I get it. MA sucks. I don't need to be told that, nor do I need to be gloated at by people who've moved. But those people don't need to be told about family obligations or roots, nor about "wanting to fight." Neither side is changing its mind. It'd be best if we'd all just stop, but in the meantime? I've just learned to ignore the move-to-NH crowd. They're not me, they don't make decisions for me, and I don't need to justify my choices to them.

I don’t want anyone else up here anyways, I like my lack of traffic

 

[42!]

Everyone has a choice, Joeldiaz. I have been saying for over 10 years - "shit I wish I lived in NH" - and I took a 33% paycut to move out of MA to NH when I could. But I understand some people are not willing to do that. Shit, I'm still looking at my current paycheck and shaking my head. Lol. But I am something now in NH that I would never be in MA...a home owner.

Honestly, my posts are facetious as f*** and I really hope the best for everyone there in MA.

Lot of stuff kept me in MA, it can be hard to leave a place you have roots in. A big one for me was my kids. Even with the divorce I didn't want to move any further than I was from them. Eventually it all came together, I was between jobs, the kids were older, and the MA legislature passed their slimy pay increase (the last straw). And I too took a pay cut, a solid 20%. But it was worth it.