MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[Coyote33]

thinks it will be denied cert

Definitely defer to his expertise

What does denied cert mean?

Means SCOTUS will not take it up for adjudication.

Cert means they will here the case
Denying cert means your screwed

So, we're screwed.

 

[Coyote33]

Unless they make you sell any banned guns you have out of state within 12 months, then you'll be WTF did I max out my CC for .
JK, but who knows what they'll put in, I think they are emboldened at this point.

If you care enough about that you shouldn’t bother buying any guns and surrender whatever you have now.

Haha ya that would be so funny. Just like when the British made the colonists sell their guns out of state within 12 months. They were like “Dang nabbit!! I just maxed out my credit trying to defend the right to keep and bear arms. And now I have to sell them out of state.” Remember that?

I wish there was an easy way of communicating this to our local clubs, without causing a big upset or ruckus.

 

[71montess]

Just a friendly reminder that our overlords will keep this bill very quiet until literally the 11th hour so as to prevent preemptive purchasing ahead of the drop dead date as there will be grandfathering. Don't fall victim to their trap of zero prior notice to do quick purchasing. Buy what you can now. You'll thank yourself

Or why is anyone reporting anything. ?

 

[Woodsloafer]

Not that emboldened or it would have been done and over long before now.
They are trying to make it Supreme court proof.
Having it slapped down right out of the gate is going to be embarrassing .

I agree. But this is also MA, some shit may not get slapped down right off by MA judges, unfortunately, even though it should be. And it would be years before it makes it to the Supreme Court, which they know.

 

[JoseyWales]

So, we're screwed.

IANAL but I think it means that SCOTUS wants the lower courts to exhaust all avenues of adjudication (lower courts haven't yet) before SCOTUS takes it and rules that AWB are unconstitutional nationwide. So it still can make it to the SCOTUS but it could be years. IANAL

 

[DarthRevan]

It shouldn’t need to be hashed out, it should be obvious.
I know it’s not that simple given historical precedent but it’s still infuriating especially after bruen.

 

[Dadstoys]

I agree. But this is also MA, some shit may not get slapped down right off by MA judges, unfortunately, even though it should be. And it would be years before it makes it to the Supreme Court, which they know.

Unless one of the other cases makes it there first .

 

[Picton]

So, we're screwed.

*sigh*

That's like saying "the northern lights are caused by the sun."

There's SO MUCH ELSE going on behind whether or not SCOTUS grants cert in this particular case, at this particular time, that "concluding" we're screwed is WAY simplistic.

 

[pastera]

So, we're screwed.

The writ is in an interlocutory status so it is asking SCOTUS to intervene before the lower court has actually rendered a decision.
So in this case it really means a delay not immediate screwing.

 

[chris_1001]

Does anyone have any insider info on this bill? It’s scary quiet.

They were banging the drums, now nothing.

On the flip side, I hope this means that they know this will not make it through and are walking most of it back.

 

[LakeTrout]

Does anyone have any insider info on this bill? It’s scary quiet.

They were banging the drums, now nothing.

On the flip side, I hope this means that they know this will not make it through and are walking most of it back.

I’m starting to agree with the people that think they’re being hush hush so you don’t run out and buy everything you can now. Zero inside info. It just seems to be one theory that makes sense and seems to align with their motives.

 

[pastera]

I wish there was an easy way of communicating this to our local clubs, without causing a big upset or ruckus.

The entire status of 2A jurisprudence is in extreme flux so for the average person that doesn't follow court process and procedures will be completely baffled.

The average guy at the club doesn't have the time to come up to speed on the nuances of the numerous cases moving in the circuits and even the experts are guessing which case actually have a chance at making cert.

 

[chris_1001]

I’m starting to agree with the people that think they’re being hush hush so you don’t run out and buy everything you can now. Zero inside info. It just seems to be one theory that makes sense and seems to align with their motives.

Pretty sure anyone that was around for the 6/16 mura talk has already stocked up as soon as they announced its bill.

I’ve pinged a lot of people to stock up

Mura will be the greatest gun sales person next to obamba and holder…

The newbs might be blind sided.

I’ve done my part to add to my stash.

 

[pastera]

Does anyone have any insider info on this bill? It’s scary quiet.

They were banging the drums, now nothing.

On the flip side, I hope this means that they know this will not make it through and are walking most of it back.

I doubt many outside the committee and speaker knows what is happening.

I doubt they are walking anything back willingly - they are very likely being told sections will be struck down but will include them anyhow simply because it takes time and money to fight and they have as much of both commodities they need to fight us.
The delay helps then in that once SCOTUS retires for this session they know it would be about a year minimum before they could get overridden. And by that time many gun owners would have given up or simply left the state.

 

[pastera]

IANAL but I think it means that SCOTUS wants the lower courts to exhaust all avenues of adjudication (lower courts haven't yet) before SCOTUS takes it and rules that AWB are unconstitutional nationwide. So it still can make it to the SCOTUS but it could be years. IANAL

Years as in one or two not 5+

Even without Roberts there is a majority poised to take on AWB.
If.the court wants it, and I think they do, they will either relist until the case is ripe or deny with a statement that it is because the case is not ripe.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

I doubt many outside the committee and speaker knows what is happening.

I doubt they are walking anything back willingly - they are very likely being told sections will be struck down but will include them anyhow simply because it takes time and money to fight and they have as much of both commodities they need to fight us.
The delay helps then in that once SCOTUS retires for this session they know it would be about a year minimum before they could get overridden. And by that time many gun owners would have given up or simply left the state.

Sad but true.

 

[Coyote33]

I doubt many outside the committee and speaker knows what is happening.

Sad but true.

Communicating and cooperating are where our side comes up VERY short.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Communicating and cooperating are where our side comes up VERY short.

Absolutely, add organizing to that list.

 

[bigbravehog]

IANAL but I think it means that SCOTUS wants the lower courts to exhaust all avenues of adjudication (lower courts haven't yet) before SCOTUS takes it and rules that AWB are unconstitutional nationwide. So it still can make it to the SCOTUS but it could be years. IANAL

If pedo Joe wins another term, the makeup of SCOTUS may change and we are screwed for a few generations

 

[HorizontalHunter]

If pedo Joe wins another term, the makeup of SCOTUS may change and we are screwed for a few generations

That’s really the biggest threat gun owners face at the moment.

 

[pastera]

Communicating and cooperating are where our side comes up VERY short.

There side takes marching orders.
Not much more than following orders on what to do and who to hate.

Our side is much less a hive mind

 

[pastera]

If pedo Joe wins another term, the makeup of SCOTUS may change and we are screwed for a few generations

Few generations?
I'd say until the end of the country but two generations might be it with the growth of public debt and illegal invaders.

 

[bigred460]

Does anyone have any insider info on this bill? It’s scary quiet.

They were banging the drums, now nothing.

On the flip side, I hope this means that they know this will not make it through and are walking most of it back.

Talked with my Rep last week and my Senator yesterday, neither have heard anything.

 

[Picton]

There side takes marching orders.
Not much more than following orders on what to do and who to hate.

Our side is much less a hive mind

I agree to a point, but I read the exact same things on lefty forums. They don't think they're a hive mind, and they think we all take marching orders. They view us as a solidly unified bloc, believe it or not, and they howl about how few lefties they can get to rallies.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. There are gaps and divisions on all sides. Sometimes an issue comes along that galvanizes one side or the other. I don't think "guns" does that, for either the left or the right. Many people on our side and theirs feel passionate about guns, but it's probably not a majority of either side of the spectrum.

We're on a gun board, yes, but it doesn't reflect what most people out there think, even those who vote with us. It's the same on the left. It helps to maintain perspective.

 

[pastera]

I agree to a point, but I read the exact same things on lefty forums. They don't think they're a hive mind, and they think we all take marching orders. They view us as a solidly unified bloc, believe it or not, and they howl about how few lefties they can get to rallies.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. There are gaps and divisions on all sides. Sometimes an issue comes along that galvanizes one side or the other. I don't think "guns" does that, for either the left or the right. Many people on our side and theirs feel passionate about guns, but it's probably not a majority of either side of the spectrum.

We're on a gun board, yes, but it doesn't reflect what most people out there think, even those who vote with us. It's the same on the left. It helps to maintain perspective.

Which is why I said our side is LESS of a hive mind.
The left is much more secular so morals become more situational - this allows different factions to set aside differences easier in order to collaborate.
The religious right is not going to compromise abortion for guns or vice versa.
So the left having internally defined and regulated moral positions has the advantage

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Their art is trying to guess how far they can go outside of the Bruen limits while still having SCOTUS deny cert.

 

[bigbravehog]

Few generations?
I'd say until the end of the country but two generations might be it with the growth of public debt and illegal invaders.

I'll be long gone, but I would hope even the liberals would wake up and see the light of whats going on in this country

 

[bfm]

 

[LakeTrout]

I'll be long gone, but I would hope even the liberals would wake up and see the light of whats going on in this country

Any liberal I’ve ever talked to about problems that liberal policy has cause has answered me the same way: “That’s because XYZ policy didn’t go far enough!”. I’m less optimistic than you that they have the capacity to analyze cause and effect.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Any liberal I’ve ever talked to about problems that liberal policy has cause has answered me the same way: “That’s because XYZ policy didn’t go far enough!”. I’m less optimistic than you that they have the capacity to analyze cause and effect.

It is not about cause and effect, but different views of the relationship between the government and the governed.