MA LTC-A confusion. Mag limits.

[MassachussettsMosinNagant]

Hello everyone....

so in my travels and when browsing on the forums here at NES I have had many people say, Pre ban mags, for example a glock or "How are you going to get a 30 rounds magazine for a 10/22 without it being pre ban.


My main confusion is, I got a letter in the mail from the commonswealth of MA about AWB in MA when I first got my license to carry and it informs about the laws regarding things. It says...

Large Capacity Weapon is any firearm, shotgun or rifle that is semi automatic with a fixed large capacity feeding device, capable of accepting or readily modifiable to accent any detatchable large capacity feeding device that employs a rotating cylinder capable of accepting more than ten rounds of ammunition in a rifle or firearm and more than five shotgun shells in the case of a shotgun or any weapon that is an assualt weapon.


Ok, so now where my confusion lies. I have a MA LTC-A license to carry and possess Large Capacity Firearms. So wouldn't that mean, i'd be allowed to buy what that description of a large capacity firearm is?


The form I was sent also says "Class A resident license to carry firearms shall entitle a holder thereof to possess and carry firearms including large capacity firearms and feeding devices and ammunition therefore for all lawful purposes."


So why would I need pre ban or things of the nature? I'm confused.


Any help would be appreciated.

 

[drgrant]

LCF (large capacity firearm) is one thing, yes, you can have that given it doesn't violate the AWB.
LCAFD (large capacity ammunition feeding device) is another thing- you can only have that if it's pre 9/94 or otherwise somehow exempt... EG, tube fed .22s that hold more than 10 rounds are exempt, etc.

The reason it is confusing is because MA has two sets of laws that discuss capacity.

First there's all the bullshit about large capacity (whatever) and your LTC-A gets you all of that. so LTC-A holders don't have to worry much about that one context at all.

THEN there's all the bullshit about the assault weapons ban which is a SECOND layer or law. your LTC does absolutely nothing about the AWB. This effectively is the whole "preban mag requirement thing". It also regulates the configuration of certain rifles and so forth. (EG, you need a preban AR or something configured to comply with the original MA AWB... and for the sake of argument we're going to ignore healey's bullshit, because it's not law.... )

For example, they arrest some guy on the street with a Beretta 92 lets say, without a license. They could wack him for the ammunition in the gun, gun being large capacity (its on large cap roster) and also whack him for a large capacity feeding device (it holds more than 10 rounds) and also whack him for an AWB violation if they could prove the mag was made after 9/94.

On the other hand, a dude with an LTC-A would only be (possibly, if they could prove it) subject to the AWB violation for having the post 94 mag that holds more than 10 rounds of ammunition.

Also note, even if they have no way of actually proving it, this would not, by itself preclude a DA from attempting to charge you with it. Some of that of course depends on how good your lawyer is at playing chicken with the DA's
office. Not to mention its hard to get real world info on this crap because AWB cases are uncommonly rare. It's too easy to bust people for other stuff. (for example, in MA the #1 thing that kicks gun owners asses is probably the bogus "safe storage" bullshit, with abuse of the 209A system by women probably jockeying for that
place... )

-Mike

 

[Frizzle Fry]

Yes, you can buy a "large capacity firearm" - one which can accept a magazine 10+ for rifles/firearms, 5+ for shotguns.

If you want to keep legal with device law and AWB, the "feeding device" (fixed or detachable, exception for tubular 22 magazines) must 10rd or less, or lawfully possessed before 1994 (by somebody).

 

[MassachussettsMosinNagant]

LCF (large capacity firearm) is one thing, yes, you can have that given it doesn't violate the AWB.
LCAFD (large capacity ammunition feeding device) is another thing- you can only have that if it's pre 9/94 or otherwise somehow exempt... EG, tube fed .22s that hold more than 10 rounds are exempt, etc.

The reason it is confusing is because MA has two sets of laws that discuss capacity.

First there's all the bullshit about large capacity (whatever) and your LTC-A gets you all of that. so LTC-A holders don't have to worry much about that one context at all.

THEN there's all the bullshit about the assault weapons ban which is a SECOND layer or law. your LTC does absolutely nothing about the AWB. This effectively is the whole "preban mag requirement thing". It also regulates the configuration of certain rifles and so forth. (EG, you need a preban AR or something configured to comply with the original MA AWB... and for the sake of argument we're going to ignore healey's bullshit, because it's not law.... )

For example, they arrest some guy on the street with a Beretta 92 lets say, without a license. They could wack him for the ammunition in the gun, gun being large capacity (its on large cap roster) and also whack him for a large capacity feeding device (it holds more than 10 rounds) and also whack him for an AWB violation if they could prove the mag was made after 9/94.

On the other hand, a dude with an LTC-A would only be (possibly, if they could prove it) subject to the AWB violation for having the post 94 mag that holds more than 10 rounds of ammunition.

Also note, even if they have no way of actually proving it, this would not, by itself preclude a DA from attempting to charge you with it. Some of that of course depends on how good your lawyer is at playing chicken with the DA's
office. Not to mention its hard to get real world info on this crap because AWB cases are uncommonly rare. It's too easy to bust people for other stuff. (for example, in MA the #1 thing that kicks gun owners asses is probably the bogus "safe storage" bullshit, with abuse of the 209A system by women probably jockeying for that
place... )

-Mike

Thank you for all the information. It's a lot of help. One thing I wanted to ask is, My friend just got a SIG P226, it holds 15+1. He bought it from an MA gun store and they sold him it. And that's what mainly brought up my confusion. It's a brand new gun, the mag is post ban. So wouldn't that be a violation of the AWB? Are the gun stores allowed to sell against the AWB? It's semi auto and has a feeding device over 10 rounds.

It seems like they are saying you can own this but you cant own this in the same sentence with two conflicting laws pretty much. What is the point of an LTC-A if the AWB basically makes an LTC-A borderline pointless as most of what defines a large capacity gun is banned by the AWB?

So I'm assuming based on what you said, if I wanted to buy a brand new Glock 40, Sig P226, FN Five Seven or basically any new large pistol, i'd be completely F'd. As all are violation of the AWB. And if I tried carrying one, i'd be subject to imprisonment, or confiscation of license ect..?

 

[drgrant]

Thank you for all the information. It's a lot of help. One thing I wanted to ask is, My friend just got a SIG P226, it holds 15+1. He bought it from an MA gun store and they sold him it. And that's what mainly brought up my confusion. It's a brand new gun, the mag is post ban. So wouldn't that be a violation of the AWB? Are the gun stores allowed to sell against the AWB? It's semi auto and has a feeding device over 10 rounds.

Felony if its post 9/13/94 and felony for the shop to sell it to someone who isn't exempt. (law enforcement or another exempt dealer).

That said, rarely enforced. But it's still on the books, and still enforceable if a DA or the kopsch want to cause someone problems.

It seems like they are saying you can own this but you cant own this in the same sentence with two conflicting laws pretty much. What is the point of an LTC-A if the AWB basically makes an LTC-A borderline pointless as most of what defines a large capacity gun is banned by the AWB?

The business about "LTC-A Large Capacity" is separate from the AWB and existed long before the AWB did. Putting it in that context, it makes it easier to understand how his happened. MA law was a big pile of shit. then when the Fed AWB came along (and then the gun control act of 98 in MA) there was an additional pile of shit on top of that existing pile, and almost nothing got taken out. Ahe end result is there are two "mesh filters" of MA law to deal with, although an LTC-A holder really doesn't have
to deal with the more obvious mesh at all, just with the AWB.

Also there's nothing inherently "entirely pointless" about an LTC-A, because it was only
ever the only license you could lawfully carry a loaded, and concealed handgun with
anyways. The capacity business is just window dressing.

Even back in the "B" days though an LTC-A was required to own certain kinds of
handguns. Like for instance, an LTC-B holder back in those days could never own a
Beretta 92, even with 10 round mags, because a 92 is considered a large cap
firearm regardless of the mags installed in it.

So I'm assuming based on what you said, if I wanted to buy a brand new Glock 40, Sig P226, FN Five Seven or basically any new large pistol, i'd be completely F'd. As all are violation of the AWB. And if I tried carrying one, i'd be subject to imprisonment, or confiscation of license ect..?

Most Glocks and Sigs have preban mags readily available if you're resourceful. Basically any pre 9/94 manufactured mag that holds more than 10 rounds is legal for you to own. The FiveSeven has none of that.

If you were "riding dirty" with a postban mag that holds more than 10 rounds, and you were caught with it, it's a felony and likely a disabling one (eg, no more guns for the rest of your life if convicted or you suck for a plea) of course that all assumes that its even an issue or not, but you're still taking a risk, even if I think it's minimal, it's
still there.

-Mike

 

[MassachussettsMosinNagant]

Felony if its post 94 and felony for the shop to sell it to someone who isn't exempt. (law enforcement or another exempt dealer).

That said, rarely enforced. But it's still on the books, and still enforceable if a DA or the kopsch want to cause someone problems.



The business about "LTC-A Large Capacity" is separate from the AWB and existed long before the AWB did. Putting it in that context, it makes it easier to understand how his happened. MA law was a big pile of shit. then when the Fed AWB came along (and then the gun control act of 98 in MA) there was an additional pile of shit on top of that existing pile, and almost nothing got taken out. Ahe end result is there are two "mesh filters" of MA law to deal with, although an LTC-A holder really doesn't have
to deal with the more obvious mesh at all, just with the AWB.

Also there's nothing inherently "entirely pointless" about an LTC-A, because it was only
ever the only license you could lawfully carry a loaded, and concealed handgun with
anyways. The capacity business is just window dressing.

Even back in the "B" days though an LTC-A was required to own certain kinds of
handguns. Like for instance, an LTC-B holder back in those days could never own a
Beretta 92, even with 10 round mags, because a 92 is considered a large cap
firearm regardless of the mags installed in it.



Most Glocks and Sigs have preban mags readily available if you're resourceful. Basically any pre 9/94 manufactured mag that holds more than 10 rounds is legal for you to own. The FiveSeven has none of that.

If you were "riding dirty" with a postban mag that holds more than 10 rounds, and you were caught with it, it's a felony and likely a disabling one (eg, no more guns for the rest of your life if convicted or you suck for a plea) of course that all assumes that its even an issue or not, but you're still taking a risk, even if I think it's minimal, it's
still there.

-Mike

Wow, I'm pretty surprised the gun shop would take such a gamble. He has the same license as I do as well. Not a cop either . And bought a P226 9mm brand new. Must be a loophole or something.


Thanks for all the tips and answers. I most likely will just hunt pre ban magazines like all the other folks around here. I didn't realize what a can of worms MA law was until I started digging in. What a mess lol.


Just to add, a lot of the magazines I see online for many guns have no date stamped on them at all, including many P226 magazines. How can you know for sure one's a pre ban or post ban? As you said, they could try to charge you with it still but wouldn't ball be in their court to prove it's post ban? Which would be very difficult i'd assume. Couldn't most folks just say any o'l mag is pre ban? "My grandad had that mag since nam" lol.

 

[drgrant]

Wow, I'm pretty surprised the gun shop would take such a gamble. He has the same license as I do as well. Not a cop either . And bought a P226 9mm brand new. Must be a loophole or something.

There is no loophole, probably just a shop that didn't care. Or they have a bucket of preban mags to sell. There used to be a lot of shops that just did it openly. the enforcement of this crap ranges from porous to nonexistent, so it creates a funny environment. Most shops are too paranoid to cross that line but there were others that just did so regardless.

Just to add, a lot of the magazines I see online for many guns have no date stamped on them at all, including many P226 magazines. How can you know for sure one's a pre ban or post ban? As you said, they could try to charge you with it still but wouldn't ball be in their court to prove it's post ban? Which would be very difficult i'd assume. Couldn't most folks just say any o'l mag is pre ban? "My grandad had that mag since nam" lol.

You can't unless you have good working knowledge. Even then a lot of the background info is based on 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge passed along and a lot of hearsay. With the P226 mags a "safe" bet is that theres no LE marking on the front and you have a zig zag or zipper backed mag.... but that is NOT conclusive in terms of describing the totality of preban P226 mags out there. Theres lots of others that don't fit in this description. Mecgar, eagle, ramline, others made prebans for it too. To varying degrees of quality.

Fed law acknolwedged this problem you speak of. That's why they put the marking requirement in the law and any unmarked mag was to be taken at face value as preban. Unfortunately MA law did not absorb/adopt this provision of the then federal AWB. And while this does not shift the burden of proof or anything like that, it took the "easy out" away from MA residents.

-Mike

 

[MassachussettsMosinNagant]

There is no loophole, probably just a shop that didn't care. Or they have a bucket of preban mags to sell. There used to be a lot of shops that just did it openly. the enforcement of this crap ranges from porous to nonexistent, so it creates a funny environment. Most shops are too paranoid to cross that line but there were others that just did so regardless.



You can't unless you have good working knowledge. Even then a lot of the background info is based on 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge passed along and a lot of hearsay. With the P226 mags a "safe" bet is that theres no LE marking on the front and you have a zig zag or zipper backed mag.... but that is NOT conclusive in terms of describing the totality of preban P226 mags out there. Theres lots of others that don't fit in this description. Mecgar, eagle, ramline, others made prebans for it too. To varying degrees of quality.

Fed law acknolwedged this problem you speak of. That's why they put the marking requirement in the law and any unmarked mag was to be taken at face value as preban. Unfortunately MA law did not absorb/adopt this provision of the then federal AWB. And while this does not shift the burden of proof or anything like that, it took the "easy out" away from MA residents.

-Mike

So the long and the short of what I've gathered is, AWB overides LTC, and federal provisions conflict with MA law and that pre ban and post ban is of discretion of the authority who stops you, distinguishing pre and post ban mags without paper work or date stamps is borderline impossible, and if they did bring it to trial it'd be a pain in the ass and a holy mother of all can of worms to ever be opened due to conflicting federal provisions and burder of proof?

Thanks for clearing all that up lol. Feels like a workout when you get done wading through that swamp of liberal non sense. I tried finding a case similar regarding pre ban unstamped in MA and couldn't seem to find one. I just think any mag I get from now until the end of time is the pre ban mag my uncle had in nam

 

[Len-2A Training]

MMN, forget the Fed law issues as they no longer exist. Mike was pointing out the genesis of the MA AWB/mag ban but the Fed ban expired (sunseted) after 10 yrs (2004) whereas the MA ban will never sunset. After the Fed ban expired there was no obligation to mark mags and most companies stopped doing so. That is what leads to the MA issue of uncertainty plus unscrupulous dealers (I discuss this in detail in my 6+ hr seminar on Mass gun laws) greed in marking post-ban mags as pre-ban.

People have been charged and even if you win, the $10-20K you paid a Mass gun law competent attorney is not a win for you. Court cases aren't publicly accessible in Mass outside the particular courthouse it was heard at unless they go to the appellate level or SJC. So likely research won't find anything. 2 yrs ago I testified as an expert witness in a bogus large capacity gun/mag/clip (yes it had both) case in superior court . . . the only way to find that court docket info is a personal visit to that courthouse. I've also run into LEOs that have claimed that some pre-ban AR mags are post-ban and advised others to arrest and prosecute.

 

[daekken]

So I'm assuming based on what you said, if I wanted to buy a brand new Glock 40, Sig P226, FN Five Seven or basically any new large pistol, i'd be completely F'd. As all are violation of the AWB. And if I tried carrying one, i'd be subject to imprisonment, or confiscation of license ect..?

Are you sure that it came with 15 rounders? Many manufacturers ship reduced cap mags with their guns for sale in restricted states. I bought my P226 when I lived in MA, and it came with 10 rounders. In states where peasants have easier access to Glocks, you can find them sold with 10 rounders, think states with mag capacity limits but no "on the list" considerations.

So unless it's a manufacturer that doesn't care to offer reduced mags, you're unlikely to be "completely f'ed."
Even then: if it's "on the list" the manufacturer likely intends to sell some in MA, so they would be self-defeating not to have >10 rd mags, OR, if you have an off-list gun, sometimes you can arrange to have the seller hold the mags and ship only the gun. When I lived in MA I had the seller keep the 15 rounders the pistol came with, and bought my own mags later.

 

[M1911]

There are some magazines that are clearly post-ban. For example, Glock magazines with the ambi cut (which started being shipped with the 4th gen Glocks) are readily identifiable and clearly post-ban. Having anything other than a 10-round or less version of one of those mags would be running significant legal risk.

 

[MassachussettsMosinNagant]

Fed law acknolwedged this problem you speak of. That's why they put the marking requirement in the law and any unmarked mag was to be taken at face value as preban. Unfortunately MA law did not absorb/adopt this provision of the then federal AWB. And while this does not shift the burden of proof or anything like that, it took the "easy out" away from MA residents.

-Mike

I'm going to end up picking up a trimag holder for my 10/22 to avoid the pre ban troubles. I'd say it's a good compromise to reduce loading times at the range without having to worry.

One question I did have though, Is what says MA law about vintage guns, something like a STG-44? or a BAR or something? Production of those guns stopped in the 40s so they are certainly pre ban although high capacity weapons. They weren't ever made after 1994. Are those actually legal? I highly doubt it but just curious.

 

[drgrant]

I'm going to end up picking up a trimag holder for my 10/22 to avoid the pre ban troubles. I'd say it's a good compromise to reduce loading times at the range without having to worry.

One question I did have though, Is what says MA law about vintage guns, something like a STG-44? or a BAR or something? Production of those guns stopped in the 40s so they are certainly pre ban although high capacity weapons. They weren't ever made after 1994. Are those actually legal? I highly doubt it but just curious.

Well if you got a green card - mg license, (and a shitload of money) you could buy any of those in ma.... there's also semiauto clones that may or may not be legal depending upon the configuration.

 

[MassachussettsMosinNagant]

Well if you got a green card - mg license, (and a shitload of money) you could buy any of those in ma.... there's also semiauto clones that may or may not be legal depending upon the configuration.

You need a MG license for vintage rifles too? Do they pair AW with MG in AWB laws? I know their is the curios and relics FFL but that's unobtainium lol.

 

[drgrant]

You need a MG license for vintage rifles too? Do they pair AW with MG in AWB laws? I know their is the curios and relics FFL but that's unobtainium lol.

If it's a machine gun, lol. The things you named are all machine guns. Obviously there's plenty of milsurps that aren't though. AWB does apply but most milsurps would be exempt due to age.

As far as C&R goes anyone can get a C&R if you put your ducks in a row.

 

[MassachussettsMosinNagant]

If it's a machine gun, lol. The things you named are all machine guns. Obviously there's plenty of milsurps that aren't though. AWB does apply but most milsurps would be exempt due to age.

As far as C&R goes anyone can get a C&R if you put your ducks in a row.

Oh, I see. They are putting anything that's full auto into the "machine gun" pool.. Thanks for clearing it up. I've learned a lot from this one thread. Thank you for all the help everyone.

 

[M1911]

You need a MG license for vintage rifles too? Do they pair AW with MG in AWB laws? I know their is the curios and relics FFL but that's unobtainium lol.

Both the STG44 and BAR are fully automatic. They are machine guns and are regulated as such.

 

[Boston4567]

Court cases aren't publicly accessible in Mass outside the particular courthouse it was heard at unless they go to the appellate level or SJC. So likely research won't find anything. 2 yrs ago I testified as an expert witness in a bogus large capacity gun/mag/clip (yes it had both) case in superior court . . . the only way to find that court docket info is a personal visit to that courthouse. I've also run into LEOs that have claimed that some pre-ban AR mags are post-ban and advised others to arrest and prosecute.

Not so anymore. Trial court dockets (District/BMC, Superior, Housing, etc) are now all publicly available online:

https://www.masscourts.org/eservices/home.page.2

Edit - actually, maybe this doesn't include all criminal actions?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Not so anymore. Trial court dockets (District/BMC, Superior, Housing, etc) are now all publicly available online:

https://www.masscourts.org/eservices/home.page.2

Edit - actually, maybe this doesn't include all criminal actions?

It doesn't. I've been on that site and tried before.

 

[drgrant]

It doesn't. I've been on that site and tried before.

This is fun... a few years ago I looked for a case I was empaneled on, no dice....

But just now I searched for the plaintiff, and she's in there....

They must computerize the records slowly or something.

This also appears to only show civil stuff. I put an obvious criminal case in there and it didn't
show up at all. So its useless to even try looking for that with it. Unless you have a date range or
something. It's almost like they don't easily want you to find criminal cases.

Contrast this with the feds system, (I forget what the hell its called) where for a nominal small fee (or free if you're below a certain amount) you can basically throw a name in there and anyone in any district with that name will pop up, and give you full access.

-Mike

 

[Boston4567]

This is fun... a few years ago I looked for a case I was empaneled on, no dice....

But just now I searched for the plaintiff, and she's in there....

They must computerize the records slowly or something.

This also appears to only show civil stuff. I put an obvious criminal case in there and it didn't
show up at all. So its useless to even try looking for that with it. Unless you have a date range or
something. It's almost like they don't easily want you to find criminal cases.

Contrast this with the feds system, (I forget what the hell its called) where for a nominal small fee (or free if you're below a certain amount) you can basically throw a name in there and anyone in any district with that name will pop up, and give you full access.

-Mike

Yeah, PACER is the Fed system, it's great.

I thought they were planning on putting criminal info online based on an article I read a few years back, but apparently not: SJC approves new rules on access to court records - The Boston Globe

They see it as some kind of unwritten obligation of theirs to bar the public from accessing criminal records through anything other than an official CORI search. Per the article, supposedly you can now look up basic info on criminal cases if you know the docket number, though.

 

[Len-2A Training]

MA, if they can't charge you for it, it is off-limits to the unwashed masses.

 

[DarthRevan]

Thank you for all the information. It's a lot of help. One thing I wanted to ask is, My friend just got a SIG P226, it holds 15+1. He bought it from an MA gun store and they sold him it. And that's what mainly brought up my confusion. It's a brand new gun, the mag is post ban. So wouldn't that be a violation of the AWB? Are the gun stores allowed to sell against the AWB? It's semi auto and has a feeding device over 10 rounds.

The gun itself can be 15+1, doesn't mean the magazine sold to him is over 10 necessarily.

 

[Dtorts]

MMN, forget the Fed law issues as they no longer exist. Mike was pointing out the genesis of the MA AWB/mag ban but the Fed ban expired (sunseted) after 10 yrs (2004) whereas the MA ban will never sunset. After the Fed ban expired there was no obligation to mark mags and most companies stopped doing so. That is what leads to the MA issue of uncertainty plus unscrupulous dealers (I discuss this in detail in my 6+ hr seminar on Mass gun laws) greed in marking post-ban mags as pre-ban.

People have been charged and even if you win, the $10-20K you paid a Mass gun law competent attorney is not a win for you. Court cases aren't publicly accessible in Mass outside the particular courthouse it was heard at unless they go to the appellate level or SJC. So likely research won't find anything. 2 yrs ago I testified as an expert witness in a bogus large capacity gun/mag/clip (yes it had both) case in superior court . . . the only way to find that court docket info is a personal visit to that courthouse. I've also run into LEOs that have claimed that some pre-ban AR mags are post-ban and advised others to arrest and prosecute.

Query: When registering on the Mass. Portal, a 1911 model firearm with a 10 round magazine, do you check off "Yes" or "No", to the question if the firearm is a Large Capacity Weapon? Any in site is most appreciated. Thank you.

 

[pastera]

Query: When registering on the Mass. Portal, a 1911 model firearm with a 10 round magazine, do you check off "Yes" or "No", to the question if the firearm is a Large Capacity Weapon? Any in site is most appreciated. Thank you.

1911 is a 7/8 round gun by design - mass roster
It is not a large capacity other than the Springfield Armory 1911-A1 high capacity

 

[M1911]

Query: When registering on the Mass. Portal, a 1911 model firearm with a 10 round magazine, do you check off "Yes" or "No", to the question if the firearm is a Large Capacity Weapon? Any in site is most appreciated. Thank you.

Dude, really?

1) A 10 round magazine is not a large capacity feeding device.

See MGL Chapter 140 Section 121:

“Large capacity feeding device”, (i) a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells; or (ii) a large capacity ammunition feeding device as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(31) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994. The term “large capacity feeding device” shall not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber ammunition.

full text is here: Mass. General Laws c.140 § 121

Ten is not “more than ten”.

2) 1911s are designed by the manufacturer with 7 or 8 round magazines. They are not large capacity magazines.

3) READ THE LAW and learn how to use Google.

 

[Dtorts]

Dude, really?

1) A 10 round magazine is not a large capacity feeding device.

See MGL Chapter 140 Section 121:



full text is here: Mass. General Laws c.140 § 121

Ten is not “more than ten”.

2) 1911s are designed by the manufacturer with 7 or 8 round magazines. They are not large capacity magazines.

3) READ THE LAW and learn how to use Google.

But the statutory language "or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition" is what is confusing. Can't the firearm be readily converted to accept more than 10 rounds buy simply obtaining a magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds? If so, wouldn't that categorize the firearm as a Large Capacity Weapon? CAN YOU KINDLY EXPLAIN THAT!

 

[Len-2A Training]

But the statutory language "or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition" is what is confusing. Can't the firearm be readily converted to accept more than 10 rounds buy simply obtaining a magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds? If so, wouldn't that categorize the firearm as a Large Capacity Weapon? CAN YOU KINDLY EXPLAIN THAT!

Ignore that!

Every gun that has an external mag has the "capability" of being large capacity. Idiots write these laws and are clueless about what the words mean!

 

[pastera]

But the statutory language "or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition" is what is confusing. Can't the firearm be readily converted to accept more than 10 rounds buy simply obtaining a magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds? If so, wouldn't that categorize the firearm as a Large Capacity Weapon? CAN YOU KINDLY EXPLAIN THAT!

Don't need to explain - the firearm is classified by what the manufacturer delivers with that particular SKU/model.

 

[M1911]

But the statutory language "or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition" is what is confusing. Can't the firearm be readily converted to accept more than 10 rounds buy simply obtaining a magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds? If so, wouldn't that categorize the firearm as a Large Capacity Weapon? CAN YOU KINDLY EXPLAIN THAT!

That gets to the intent of the legislation. The intent of the legislation was to separate semiautomatic firearms into two categories: 1) large capacity and 2) non-large capacity. If any semiautomatic firearm with a removable magazine is considered a large capacity, then there are effectively no non-large capacity firearms, which was not the intent of the legislation.

The interpretation of the courts (supported by Glidden’s guide to MA firearms law) is based on what the was designed as and how it was sold. 1911s were designed and sold with 7 or 8 round magazines. In contrast, a Glock 19 was designed around a 15 round magazine. A 1911 is non-large capacity. A Glock 19 is large capacity.

Edited to add: I think the other thing to point out is that I don’t think it really matters what you pick on the EFA-10. If you pick large capacity when reporting a transfer of a 1911, it’s not like the FRB is going to call you up and tell you that you did it wrong.