MK262 ammo for SHTF self defense?

[hminsky]

I've been reading about a relatively new ammo for AR15's, MK262

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56×45mm_NATO#Mk_262

According to US DoD sources, the Mk 262 round is capable of making kills at 700 meters. Ballistics tests found that the round caused "consistent initial yaw in soft tissue" at more than 300 meters. Apparently it is superior to the standard M855 round when fired from an M4 or M16 rifle. It evidently possesses superior stopping power, and can allow for engagements to be extended to up to 700 meters. It appears that this round can drastically improve the performance of any AR15 platform weapon chambered to .223/5.56 mm. Superior accuracy, wounding capacity, stopping power and range power has made this the preferred round of many Special Forces operators, and highly desirable as a replacement for the older, Belgian-designed 5.56×45mm M855 NATO round.[54][55] Hard target penetration is slightly decreased.[56]

I'm wondering if this would be a good thing to keep a stock of, for serious defensive situations. It seems like it answers a lot of objections people have to the standard NATO FMJ 5.56 round being marginal for stopping power in some situations.

 

[BriMac]

Good stuff for long range in 1/7 barrel's. Good luck finding real Mk262, but Black Hills
has it if you can find a dealer for Black Hills. If you reload it is simpler to duplicate the load.

 

[BriMac]

PS factory seconds are 1.00+ when its around

 

[xtry51]

If you're planning on shooting people beyond 300 yards with your AR either start reloading 77gr or better yet get something in mag fed .308.

 

[drgrant]

Hornady TAP 75gr is as close as you are gonna get to the Mk262. Fed GMM 77 is good too, but you will pay through the nose for it. It's not $15 bucks a box a Riley's anymore, lol.

-Mike

 

[xtry51]

Black hills 77gr is the most accurate factory ammo I've used. It's not cheap though.

 

[Dija]

If you can afford it go for it.

 

[Rider]

I know we're all about contingency planning, but if you're engaging targets at 700 meters in a SHTF scenario, things are looking good for you.

If the upgrade from XM855 costs more than twice as much, I'll just take two shots at range and then wait to see if they come closer. ;p

 

[xtry51]

I think at 700m I'll walk in the .308 instead and be happy I'm not engaging at 100 yards.

ETA:

Even in the middle of winter with no leaves on trees the farthest I can engage from my house is 400-450 yards. With leaves up that distance shrinks to 200ish. Unless you're shooting at 300+ yards regularly I would question why you would ever engage at that distance, and even then how effective can you be with an AR? For most of us there's a huge difference between someone like Pat or Derek shooting at 600, versus us.
It would be wiser to avoid engagement all together at that distance. If you're being fired upon, move and try to escape or flank them. If there's no contact and you're hellbent on engaging wait until they hit 300-400 yards so you can have a better chance of actually landing hits.

 

[crazymjb]

I'm going to load up my own stuff with 75gr bthp once I get the loads worked out just because. I keep the AR loaded with .223 tap for home defense, but its too pricey in any serious quantity. Fortunately I dont expect to ever need any of this.

Mike

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

 

[P-14]

I like Silver State Armory 77 gr. OTM when I can get it.

Here.

I put a group of 5 shots inside a 9" circle at 200 yards at Reading a month ago. White Oak Armament 18" SPR barrel 1:7, prone with a bipod and a Geissele 2-stage super semi-suto trigger; Millett 1-4X red dot. First time for me shooting targets at 200 yards. Others can do better, but I was pleased that I could get a group that small.

 

[bpm990d]

I see the 77gr bullet as a much better round than ball ammo for short barrel carbines, but I think you can do better with some other bullets if you reload. Ammunition loaded with Barnes TSX bullets should be significantly better than the thin copper jacket on the 77s in terms of barrier penetration.

Case quantities of loaded ammo would be stupid expensive if commercially loaded, but access to a progressive machine would reduce that cost so a reasonable level.

B

 

[Jose]

I've been making my Mk262 since 2004.

 

[frenchman]

I keep reading about SHTF. If the doodoo does fly in the ventilator, I won't need to defend myself at ranges over 300, if that, at all. If you can't get around a threat without engaging at that kind of distance, in an area as wooded as New England, then I'd say your chances to survive are mediocre at best. In a situation like "no rule of law" (NROL), low key profile is your best bet. And if I feel a need to engage at 300+, I'd use a scoped 308, which will also be a hunting weapon. I'd love to own an AR of some sort, but it will be for fun only. It's a weapon that doesn't make much sense in a bug out situation. Questionable caliber for deer hunt, less effective then a shotgun at close (home defense) range, and less effective then a 308 and up for field use. So unless you plan on starting a little war, there is no real purpose for an AR/clone of any kind.
If I had the money, a Krieghof drilling, with 2x20ga over and 1x308 under would be the SHTF weapon of choice.

 

[Gadsden]

I've been making my Mk262 since 2004.

Care to share the recipe?

 

[OPM]

So unless you plan on starting a little war, there is no real purpose for an AR/clone of any kind.

Oh man. Flames incoming 1… 2... 3…

 

[xtry51]

Oh man. Flames incoming 1… 2... 3…

No point. This is like trying to argue with the Brady Campaign.

 

[BriMac]

Care to share the recipe?

When I started looking I found this:
Any load that will give you Mk262 performance will exceed SAAMI specifications for .223. Thus, you're not going to find any published commercial data that will meet Mk262 velocities.

I have all the components just haven't have the time to work up a load.
I have been buying Black Hills 77gr OTM until I have the time

 

[P-14]

When I started looking I found this:
Any load that will give you Mk262 performance will exceed SAAMI specifications for .223. Thus, you're not going to find any published commercial data that will meet Mk262 velocities.

That's because it's not .223 cal - It's 5.56mm NATO.

 

[Timber]

Questionable caliber for deer hunt, less effective then a shotgun at close (home defense) range, and less effective then a 308 and up for field use.

 

[bpm990d]

I always get a chuckle with all the "scenario" navel gazing in the prepper community. Most of it's more appropriate for a graphic novel or Hollywood.

B

 

[Gadsden]

That's because it's not .223 cal - It's 5.56mm NATO.

P-14 is correct on the pressure here.
That being said, I tried loading a clone with some WC-844 (following H335 data) and ended up getting way too hot before getting close to the velocity. I chronographed some 75gr PPU .223 last week and they averaged around 2750FPS and did not show much stress on the brass.

 

[xtry51]

P-14 is correct on the pressure here.
That being said, I tried loading a clone with some WC-844 (following H335 data) and ended up getting way too hot before getting close to the velocity. I chronographed some 75gr PPU .223 last week and they averaged around 2750FPS and did not show much stress on the brass.

What length barrel?

 

[bpm990d]

When I started looking I found this:
Any load that will give you Mk262 performance will exceed SAAMI specifications for .223. Thus, you're not going to find any published commercial data that will meet Mk262 velocities.

I have all the components just haven't have the time to work up a load.
I have been buying Black Hills 77gr OTM until I have the time

The difference between real Mk262 Mod 0 and typical .223 Match ammunition loaded with 77 Sierras is only going to be apparent for those that like to compare things. The match ammunition is typically loaded to a lower pressure because it actually shoots better when not as hot. It's also not going to have a cannelure and asphalt sealant in the neck. No one would notice a difference with BH 77OTM and Mk 262 without a chronograph.

B

 

[Gadsden]

What length barrel?

20"

 

[crazymjb]

P-14 is correct on the pressure here.
That being said, I tried loading a clone with some WC-844 (following H335 data) and ended up getting way too hot before getting close to the velocity. I chronographed some 75gr PPU .223 last week and they averaged around 2750FPS and did not show much stress on the brass.

From what I've been reading you'll need a slower powder ideally. When I get my hands on a chronograph I am going to mess around with the Hornady 75gr bthp match bullets I got. I'm hoping they like H4895 as I use that for my garand so I keep it on hand.

Mike

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Gadsden]

From what I've been reading you'll need a slower powder ideally. When I get my hands on a chronograph I am going to mess around with the Hornady 75gr bthp match bullets I got. I'm hoping they like H4895 as I use that for my garand so I keep it on hand.

Mike

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

I picked up a pound of TAC, which is what some loads I have read call for. When I have a closer range that I can actually get to when the sun is still shining I will load some up and go back to the drawing board.

 

[Dija]

I keep reading about SHTF. If the doodoo does fly in the ventilator, I won't need to defend myself at ranges over 300, if that, at all. If you can't get around a threat without engaging at that kind of distance, in an area as wooded as New England, then I'd say your chances to survive are mediocre at best. In a situation like "no rule of law" (NROL), low key profile is your best bet. And if I feel a need to engage at 300+, I'd use a scoped 308, which will also be a hunting weapon. I'd love to own an AR of some sort, but it will be for fun only. It's a weapon that doesn't make much sense in a bug out situation. Questionable caliber for deer hunt, less effective then a shotgun at close (home defense) range, and less effective then a 308 and up for field use. So unless you plan on starting a little war, there is no real purpose for an AR/clone of any kind.
If I had the money, a Krieghof drilling, with 2x20ga over and 1x308 under would be the SHTF weapon of choice.

I suppose next you are going to tell us we should be using Frog Lube, that a vote for RP is a vote for Obama, and that all cops are bad.

 

[OPM]

This might be of interest to some of you. http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Ballistic_Gel_Experiments/BTAmmoLabsTest5/Test5.htm

However, around my area I do not foresee engagement range beyond 150-200m, if that. Besides making consistent hits on a moving target beyond 250-300m is wishful thinking for most members of this forum, including me. Although I own both M193 and M855, I prefer M193 because it gives few extra feet at those ranges and according to Col. Martin L. Fackler, MD 5.56 need to strike flesh at 2,700 fps in order to reliably fragment. Between 2,500 fps and 2,700 fps, the bullet may or may not fragment and below 2,500 fps, no significant fragmentation is likely to occur.

 

[Jose]

This might be of interest to some of you. http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Ballistic_Gel_Experiments/BTAmmoLabsTest5/Test5.htm

However, around my area I do not foresee engagement range beyond 150-200m, if that. Besides making consistent hits on a moving target beyond 250-300m is wishful thinking for most members of this forum, including me. Although I own both M193 and M855, I prefer M193 because it gives few extra feet at those ranges and according to Col. Martin L. Fackler, MD 5.56 need to strike flesh at 2,700 fps in order to reliably fragment. Between 2,500 fps and 2,700 fps, the bullet may or may not fragment and below 2,500 fps, no significant fragmentation is likely to occur.

All that crap is bullet weight dependent and the numbers you have posted here are all typical of .mil 55 gr M193 fragmentation.

When you make your own ammo all those silly rules are meaningless.