Moon Island

[drgrant]

"antique 38sp revolver "? It's a Ruger Speed Six from 1987. Probably one of the best revolvers ever made.

It still doesn't change the fact that it is probably a POS. Take typical already crappy ruger DA pull and add a bunch of grime into the action (that probably never gets cleaned) and you end up with a firearm that is basically a turd that happens to fire bullets.

-Mike

 

[TY43215]

I wonder how many Boston and Brookline LEO's have failed the b.s. test.

I had a friend that was the Sgt on the range. I used to visit and we shot together getting ready for major matches. He always asked me to step off the range when road cops came in to qualify. He said I would make them feel bad. (We laughed a lot about that)

The revolvers are S&W and Ruger that were the BPD duty issue before Glocks so they have been around for a while.

 

[garandman]

I wonder how many Boston and Brookline LEO's have failed the b.s. test.

Some do, which is a little troubling as it's not a difficult test. OTOH there are plenty of Boston PD guys at BR&P and other clubs that I've seen practicing regularly.

Difficulty or existence of the test aside, there is a big difference between taking it in the winter months versus warmer weather. I've renewed twice in Boston and the first time it was single digits and windy, the second time it was 22 and even windier. They did give us the option of rescheduling when it was cold, and in fact once I did come back the next day.

In all fairness, the guys on the range are great. There are many, many Boston PD officers who don't support the current licensing laws or policies and it's a big mistake to think they do. Even Commissioner Davis, who one would assume is supportive of Mayor Menino's policies, has testified favorably towards lawful gun owners.

No sense in alienating those who are otherwise well disposed to you: the police know who the bad guys are and are not. Last time I renewed I met a guy in BPD who was also a Garand and Carbine collector and asked how to go about getting a C&R.

 

[cekim]

In all fairness, the guys on the range are great. There are many, many Boston PD officers who don't support the current licensing laws or policies and it's a big mistake to think they do. Even Commissioner Davis, who one would assume is supportive of Mayor Menino's policies, has testified favorably towards lawful gun owners.

No sense in alienating those who are otherwise well disposed to you: the police know who the bad guys are and are not. Last time I renewed I met a guy in BPD who was also a Garand and Carbine collector and asked how to go about getting a C&R.

Then they need to man up... I have not seen them at the state-house testifying to the public safety committee that these laws and regulations are garbage.

 

[Riverside]

"antique 38sp revolver "? It's a Ruger Speed Six from 1987. Probably one of the best revolvers ever made.

The best revolvers ever made lose function without proper maintenance and "dry" storage conditions.

 

[bill o]

Even Commissioner Davis, who one would assume is supportive of Mayor Menino's policies, has testified favorably towards lawful gun owners...

No sense in alienating those who are otherwise well disposed to you...

Boston Commissioner Ed Davis:
We Should Not Retreat on Past Legislation
I wouldn’t want to retreat from where we are. I believe that unfortunately,
some day there will be a massacre in this country with
assault weapons. We have taken the right position on this ethically
and logically, and I think that if we step back from it, history will
hold us accountable. I thought the shooting incident in Tucson
was going to turn the gun issue around somewhat in Congress.
But in spite of what Congresswoman Giffords went through, and
what the others who were shot went through and the families of
the six who were killed, it did not move these people in Washington
off the dime. So I think we should move forward, but also
maintain our positions on past legislation.

...

As for solutions, Davis looks to strategies specifically associated with curtailing illegal gun sales. He supports both loosening the Tiahrt restrictions to provide wider availability of gun trace data and the use of civil remedies to control the distribution of illegal firearms. “I’d like to see civil liability for vendors that pump illegal guns onto the street,” said Davis. “The gun trade is a highly unregulated industry, like no other.”

ETA one more...
Boston police Commissioner Edward Davis yesterday angrily lamented the 10-year federal ban on assault weapons “foolishly set aside by Congress” in 2004.

 

[cekim]

Even Commissioner Davis, who one would assume is supportive of Mayor Menino's policies, has testified favorably towards lawful gun owners...

He has indeed testified that LTC holders and law abiding gun owners are not a factor in crime, but at the same time, see Bill O's post, he is not advocating for repeal of these garbage laws or policies. He is in fact arguing for more of this insanity.

You can make excuses for him if you like, but he is one of those people who is actually in a position to affect real change for the better and he is moving in the opposite direction.

 

[cb1]

I'm certain that many people forgo the LTC rather than subject themselves to this "test". And that makes Mumbles and Snoopy Dog Davis smile and feel all warm and fuzzy.

I know a couple of young ladies that have foregone getting their LTCs because they were intimidated by the thought of having to pass the moon island test. I moved out of the city rather than submit to that foolishness. I recognize that not everyone has that option though, particularly homeowners.

 

[Gillham]

Agreed the test is kind of ridiculous.. at least the guys there were nice. When I took the test, my gun was delivered in a 5 gallon bucket with rounds, cylinder out. Shot a 293. They [nicely] gave me crap about not shooting 300. They also said they were going to go show the cadets that were there for training what their target should look like. To my surprise I didn't realize that most cadets have never shot a gun before... (or at least so I was told). I didn't even think about those folks with health issues, I could totally see it becoming a problem if you couldn't squeeze the trigger on double action.

What it boils down to.. I need to move out of Boston and/or Massachusetts.

 

[M1911]

Then they need to man up... I have not seen them at the state-house testifying to the public safety committee that these laws and regulations are garbage.

I'm quite sure the Boston PD has a policy that requires police officers to not make public statements. If they did what you suggest, they would get fired, lose their pension, and probably not be able to get another law enforcement job.

 

[Admin]

Davis can kiss my a$$

 

[cekim]

I'm quite sure the Boston PD has a policy that requires police officers to not make public statements. If they did what you suggest, they would get fired, lose their pension, and probably not be able to get another law enforcement job.

So, they are "just following orders" and should expect to bear the brunt of criticism correspondingly.

I understand they have to make a hard choice, but that's the reality - they made a choice.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'm quite sure the Boston PD has a policy that requires police officers to not make public statements. If they did what you suggest, they would get fired, lose their pension, and probably not be able to get another law enforcement job.

They definitely do and your analysis is correct.

When I worked for the PD, I was "warned" by the Town Moderator that if I was in uniform he would not allow me to speak at Town Meeting as it would incorrectly look like I was speaking for the PD. [I have no problem with that decision either.]

The only people allowed to speak publicly in uniforms are "spokespersons" for the department they work for. Going off the reservation will cost you dearly.

That said, this is NOT strictly a LE issue! Private industry has the same rules.

When I worked for DEC, there was a day that the media was just outside our gates and we (all employees) were WARNED NOT to speak with the media. I don't recall why they were there, but it was the same idea. None of us (just regular employees) were empowered to speak for the company and if we went on-air as a company employee, it would be spun by the media and assumed by the public that we were talking for the company.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Davis can kiss my a$$

NO THANKS!!

I can only guess where his lips would have been shortly before hand and that is not the kind of contamination any of us want/need!

 

[Riverside]

I'm quite sure the Boston PD has a policy that requires police officers to not make public statements. If they did what you suggest, they would get fired, lose their pension, and probably not be able to get another law enforcement job.

Oh come on, the higher ups at BPD would never retaliate against a former police officer! Just ask Hightower.
[sarcasm] just in case you read this literally.
Best regards.

 

[enbloc]

Never been to Moon Island. Thank you God. Why do you qualify with THEIR weapon, and not your own?

 

[Gillham]

Never been to Moon Island. Thank you God. Why do you qualify with THEIR weapon, and not your own?

For new applicants that would be pretty hard. Secondly, I'm sure it falls under some sort of 'police property/carrying weapons rule'.

 

[bill o]

Never been to Moon Island. Thank you God. Why do you qualify with THEIR weapon, and not your own?

If you brought your own pistol as a new applicant, they'd lock your ass up for illegal possession.

As to why renewals can't use their own pistol...? It's not supposed to make sense.

 

[cekim]

As to why renewals can't use their own pistol...? It's not supposed to make sense.

This is why I don't buy the apologist response to these policies. It is clear from execution of the policy that there are numerous aspects which are made intentionally difficult that could easily be changed, but there is no will to change them.

Makes sense that they would provide hardware if the applicant had none, but if either renewing or an existing LTC holder was willing to accompany and provide hardware, then you should be able to use that.

 

[eric_07]

I got a 271 and it was my first time ever shooting a revolver. I didn't even know how to get the empties out of the revolver! I figured it out the second time emptying that there's a thing you can push

I was such a noob. but I was one of two (out of three guys) to pass that day. still have the cardboard guy somewhere.

 

[Riverside]

For the past year, I have been fretting over my Boston LTC renewal. Your first thoughts might be to say, "what kind of fool would worry about a LTC renewal?The fact is, most of us do worry even those of you who don't have to requalify at Moon Island. You may think that I'm pretty foolish for admitting that I spent a year worrying about Moon Island. The stakes are high and weigh in favor of the Boston Licensing Officer's authority instead of my fundamental right to bear arms. I have arthritis in every joint. Over the course of my years, the arthritis destroyed cartiledge especially in my hands. My hands became as weak as a kitten's paws. A lot of you may know me as I shoot regularly, with BUAS and out at Harvard. Last September, I had surgery on my right hand to try and repair damage and restore the joint to some lesser level of pain and regain strength. It's improving but now the left hand is a good candidate for the same surgery. My surgeon told me it will take 4 months to a year to regain hand strength. At exactly the 4th month, I had my appointment at Moon Island. I had spent the months of November and December focused solely on preparing for Moon Island. I used my .22 to relearn grip and reflex response to firing. After a few sessions, I borrowed Donna's revolver and the ones owned by the BGRA. It would take my hands several days to recouperate after firing 30 rounds. And by that I mean, my hands were pained so much it hurt to pull up my pants!
I called BPD to make my appointment. I mentioned my recent surgery and expressed concern over the Moon Island test requirements. Although sounding sympathetic, the officer said there are no other options for persons with limited physical abilities. There is no option to use a Pistol or even a revolver with a lighter trigger weight. The Moon Island requirement states that candidates must fire 12 rounds, using one hand, double action. The remaining 18 rounds can be shot single or double action. I prepared as best I could. When my appointed day arrived near the end of January, I was comfortable enough and as others have mentioned, the range officers were very pleasant. I mentioned my concern over the conditions of my hands. Out on the range, the officer offered us the "option" of shooting the first 12 rounds using two hands, double action instead of the written condition, one hand. The revolver I used was in much better shape than the one handed to me six years prior. It only jammed up once. I scored 274! I'm 63 years old and grateful I passed so I don't have to move to a "safe house" outside the state line.
It is discouraging to read about the people, especially the women who are intimidated by the BPO licensing authority. The BPO system is working against us and for the anti-gun rulers. I really hope that any instructors reading this forum would sincerely try to talk those who are discouraged and instill in them a sense of "you can do it." It takes time and practice. It can be painful. I would be happy to meet with the reticent candidates and show them my hands and offer my support.
The BPO licensing system is unfair in general terms and blatently discriminatory against persons like me who are aging and losing hand strength.
For all you younger men and women who don't think that any of this is a problem, the day may come when you realize just how much of a problem it can be.
Best regards.

 

[bill o]

This is why I don't buy the apologist response to these policies. It is clear from execution of the policy that there are numerous aspects which are made intentionally difficult that could easily be changed, but there is no will to change them...

True. If the BPD were strictly interested in evidence of the safety and shooting ability of an applicant, the Commissioner would accept a sign-off from an MSP-certified basic pistol safety instructor. These instructors are already granted the state's trust in training the applicant, and Brookline allows it.

Requiring applicants to take the morning off from work and travel well outside the City of Boston, to show proficiency with a gun that's illegal for them to own, is only meant to discourage potential applicants. There's no other possible motivation.

 

[bill o]

I got a 271 and it was my first time ever shooting a revolver. I didn't even know how to get the empties out of the revolver! I figured it out the second time emptying that there's a thing you can push

I was such a noob. but I was one of two (out of three guys) to pass that day. still have the cardboard guy somewhere.

Where'd you take your basic firearms safety class?!

 

[bill o]

For the past year, I have been fretting over my Boston LTC renewal. Your first thoughts might be to say, "what kind of fool would worry about a LTC renewal?...

I was worried about you for a while, and am glad you passed.

I had my wife try to dry fire my Ruger revolver's 10 lb DA trigger recently, but she just couldn't do it without severe pain and won't bother to apply for her LTC. She's 31. Our next move will be out of Boston.

 

[M1911]

So, they are "just following orders" and should expect to bear the brunt of criticism correspondingly.

I understand they have to make a hard choice, but that's the reality - they made a choice.

They would give up their entire career. All gone. I think you are being very unrealistic.

 

[M1911]

For all you younger men and women who don't think that any of this is a problem, the day may come when you realize just how much of a problem it can be.

Yup. Infirmity will eventually catch up with all of us.

 

[Riverside]

I was worried about you for a while, and am glad you passed.

I had my wife try to dry fire my Ruger revolver's 10 lb DA trigger recently, but she just couldn't do it without severe pain and won't bother to apply for her LTC. She's 31. Our next move will be out of Boston.

Thanks Bill. Your wife shouldn't have to suffer hand pain in order to get a LTC. It is sad to say but as true as can be, a move out of Boston would be the best move for you and your family.

 

[Roy Rogers]

Maybe a case for Comm. 2A? Sounds like, on top of violation of her 2A rights, there's age discrimination, compounded by discrimination based upon her physical condition in contravention of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Or not?

 

[M1911]

Maybe a case for Comm. 2A? Sounds like discrimination

Already tried and failed by attorney Karen MacNutt.

 

[cekim]

They would give up their entire career. All gone. I think you are being very unrealistic.

I think you are being entirely too forgiving of unacceptable behavior. As I said, they made a choice and now they have to live with the consequences. One of those consequences is being target of criticism of these policies and justifiably so.

There is a tendency in people to lose sight of principles when they are closely involved with the people acting counter to those principles, such as with the Stockholm syndrome.

Your argument is how slavery, institutional racism and genocide function in an otherwise civilized society ostensibly bound to the "rule of law." Get enough people who refuse to rock the boat, and it sinks under their weight.