New Indiana Law allows citizens to

Wrench75 said:
. If you did this in Ma they would wipe out your entire bloodline.
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Oh it happens once in a while

What was the name of the car dealer in Ma who shot a cop a while back ? Ragsdale ?

Then there was a Nashua NH cop who got shot because he forgot to yell "POLICE ! WE HAVE A WARRANT !" before he kicked in the door. (I do not think they actually had a warrant) I thought I had a link but I guess I didn't back up my computer...

He's the reason there aren't any no-knock warrants in NH.
 
Awesome. No we just have to wait 40 or 50 years for someone to kill a police officer entering the wrong house and for the case to make it to the supreme court before it can be law everywhere that you actually do have the protection of the Bill of Rights in your own home.
 
frenchman said:
You may have the right to smoke them if they enter unlawfully, but you're not gonna survive it either. You take a shot at a cop, even in your own home, even if you're in the right, you'll still catch a bullet. Or 68, like the former marine with the hispanic name.
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This.

Yeah, you shooting the cop might be lawful. Justified, even. But you'll still be dead from the dozen OTHER cops standing behind the first one through the door.
 
Quiet said:
Awesome. No we just have to wait 40 or 50 years for someone to kill a police officer entering the wrong house and for the case to make it to the supreme court before it can be law everywhere that you actually do have the protection of the Bill of Rights in your own home.
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+1
 
ochmude said:
Makes sense. How to you think things would play out differently in Indiana, given this new law? I'm not trying to be argumentative and am genuinely curious what your take is.
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I'm sure it won't be a walk in the park but.. In Ma you have absolutely no protection under the law if you shoot a cop. The reasoning doesn't matter at all. You have no right to protect yourself from a cop PERIOD. It wouldn't matter if, after the fact, it came out that the cop entered the wrong house, or whatever circumstances made it an unlawful entry. It would just be an automatic life in prison sentence.

At least in Indiana, thanks to the new law, the citizens have full protection under the law. All you would have to do is prove that it was unlawful entry. Which should be pretty straight forward. Either they had a warrant or they didn't, either they were looking for you or they weren't.

There have been too many cases of cops just kicking down the wrong door and shooting the first person they see. You have to wonder how many of those people died because, in the moment between seeing the cop and being shot by them, they thought something along the lines of "they can't possibly be looking for me..."

Now I'm not naive enough to think that all laws are enforced in a fair and equal manor or anything like that. But at least in Indiana anyone put in this situation has the law on their side. Therefor they can adopt the mentality of just shooting anyone who kicks in their door rather than standing there like a deer in headlights waiting to see if it is a criminal or, well, a criminal, of the JBT persuasion. If a situation like this ever has to end with a fatality. Then the cop who ****ed up should be the one who dies not the innocent citizen in their bed or watching TV.

It is just nice to see that some states are enacting laws to protect their citizens rather than crippling their subjects...
 
Twigg said:
Oh it happens once in a while

What was the name of the car dealer in Ma who shot a cop a while back ? Ragsdale ?

Then there was a Nashua NH cop who got shot because he forgot to yell "POLICE ! WE HAVE A WARRANT !" before he kicked in the door. (I do not think they actually had a warrant) I thought I had a link but I guess I didn't back up my computer...

He's the reason there aren't any no-knock warrants in NH.
Click to expand...

Here is the case you are talking about. They did have a "no knock Warrant" that they used Bullshit language to get.
Raid Of The Day: Bruce Lavoie

Oh an this is an example of the retarded police creating two criminals out of none several years after they murdered Bruce Lavoie (his elder son and mother).

Here is a recent example of NH STILL issuing "no knock warrants". The difference between NH and other states is that a judge ruled (after the Lavoie incident) that what the departments were doing in the late 80's early 90's was in violation of state law. Hence why NH still issues them but not as often.

Changes made to Drug Task Force policy after Greenland drug raid | SeacoastOnline.com
 
StevieP said:
This.

Yeah, you shooting the cop might be lawful. Justified, even. But you'll still be dead from the dozen OTHER cops standing behind the first one through the door.
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It may take a martyr to make the law effective in the long run but... After the first cop dies, and the 5 behind him are tried and sentenced for murder, I bet they PDs start checking their warrants VERY carefully. If the first officer entered illegally then so did the other 5. If the occupant was not in the wrong then the PD was. Doesn't do the dead citizen too much good but, the millions their family gets in the lawsuit will have them set for life.
 
Wrench75 said:
I'm sure it won't be a walk in the park but.. In Ma you have absolutely no protection under the law if you shoot a cop. The reasoning doesn't matter at all. You have no right to protect yourself from a cop PERIOD. It wouldn't matter if, after the fact, it came out that the cop entered the wrong house, or whatever circumstances made it an unlawful entry. It would just be an automatic life in prison sentence.

At least in Indiana, thanks to the new law, the citizens have full protection under the law. All you would have to do is prove that it was unlawful entry. Which should be pretty straight forward. Either they had a warrant or they didn't, either they were looking for you or they weren't.

There have been too many cases of cops just kicking down the wrong door and shooting the first person they see. You have to wonder how many of those people died because, in the moment between seeing the cop and being shot by them, they thought something along the lines of "they can't possibly be looking for me..."

Now I'm not naive enough to think that all laws are enforced in a fair and equal manor or anything like that. But at least in Indiana anyone put in this situation has the law on their side. Therefor they can adopt the mentality of just shooting anyone who kicks in their door rather than standing there like a deer in headlights waiting to see if it is a criminal or, well, a criminal, of the JBT persuasion. If a situation like this ever has to end with a fatality. Then the cop who ****ed up should be the one who dies not the innocent citizen in their bed or watching TV.

It is just nice to see that some states are enacting laws to protect their citizens rather than crippling their subjects...
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I agree completely with everything your saying. However, in MA you wouldn't be looking at an automatic life sentence, because you'd be shot dead in your home the moment the rest of the cops making the entry were able to get a clear shot. Things would be no different in Indiana. Being legally justified simply means you'd be "dead right" instead of "dead wrong". What would be better is passing a law that criminalizes no-knock warrants themselves, rather than just giving citizens a means to defend themselves that will still get them killed.
 
ochmude said:
I agree completely with everything your saying. However, in MA you wouldn't be looking at an automatic life sentence, because you'd be shot dead in your home the moment the rest of the cops making the entry were able to get a clear shot. Things would be no different in Indiana. Being legally justified simply means you'd be "dead right" instead of "dead wrong". What would be better is passing a law that criminalizes no-knock warrants themselves, rather than just giving citizens a means to defend themselves that will still get them killed.
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I hear ya. I agree that you would have a hell of a firefight on you hands and the odds of surviving it are slim, see my last post about "it may take a martyr".

But at least if you do die. You die an innocent citizen defending himself and his family. Rather than dieing as the "cop killing scumbag reason we have to enact more gun control laws" that you would in Ma. Even after being found not guilty Z is still going to carry the burden his whole life. If I had to go out in this way I would certainly prefer that my family didn't have to carry the stigma of being "the cop killers family"

Oh and I completely agree with the no, no-knock warrants, thing. There are definitely other steps that could be taken. But even if this law only slows the cops down a second or two on entry. A lot of communication can happen in a second or two. Just having the time to shout out your name and have an officer think "Jones he said? We're looking for a Smith" can stop things from ending tragically all around.

COPs need to stop entering homes in our country like they are in Iraq. Maybe the idea to give preferential treatment to former military when hiring cops wasn't suck a good idea after all. [rolleyes] Now I have nothing but the utmost respect for anyone who serves/served. I come from a MC family. But how things are done on foreign soil and how things should be done at home are two completely different things. Something our founding fathers clearly understood.
 
Cro said:
I am wondering how a citizen is supposed to determine whether the officer is legally entering their home? Rogue/insane cop entering with obvious intent to cause harm and mayhem, I can understand, but I think it's a little ridiculous to make it legal to knowingly shoot police officers for entering ones home just because the occupant thinks the search is illegal. How is a citizen to know that the officer is not entering the home under completely legal pretenses? Last time I checked, most people aren't lawyers or judges, and even if they were, the adrenaline dump during a police entry and lack of information wouldn't leave time for an informed decision. Why would you want to shoot then, unless the first situation or the one below applied? Sounds ridiculous to me.

Self-defense shooting where the homeowner had no idea that it was police, okay I understand that can and has happened during these ridiculous late night and no knock warrants, which is tragic. This is a key reason why we ought to de-militarize police, stop the drug war, and hold police commanders or officers who knowingly deviate from the law to be held fiscally and criminally responsible for their oversteps in a court of law.
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Well, in my case, I know I'm not a shit bag. I don't do things that give police reason to storm in to my house behind flashbangs and FA weapons. Therefor if police do storm in to my home then it MUST be unlawful entry and I'm sure as hell not paying for their mistake, with my life, without taking them with me.
 
You might survive.

First you activate the house's self defense system that covers all entry points with sliding 1/2" AR500 steel.

Then you activate the house's booby trap self destruct sequence one alpha one A

Then you and your dog retreat into your fallout bunker through the self-sealing chute cleverly hidden under your dog's crate.

Then you activate the vocal warning system, informing the police that their entry is illegal and you'll "never be taken alive."

The entry into the home through the wall next to the front door triggers the booby trap.
 
Quiet said:
You might survive.

First you activate the house's self defense system that covers all entry points with sliding 1/2" AR500 steel.

Then you activate the house's booby trap self destruct sequence one alpha one A

Then you and your dog retreat into your fallout bunker through the self-sealing chute cleverly hidden under your dog's crate.

Then you activate the vocal warning system, informing the police that their entry is illegal and you'll "never be taken alive."

The entry into the home through the wall next to the front door triggers the booby trap.
Click to expand...
Then they bulldoze and burn like Waco, Texas. They'll get u if they want to.
 
soloman02 said:
Here is the case you are talking about. They did have a "no knock Warrant" that they used Bullshit language to get.
Raid Of The Day: Bruce Lavoie


Here is a recent example of NH STILL issuing "no knock warrants". The difference between NH and other states is that a judge ruled (after the Lavoie incident) that what the departments were doing in the late 80's early 90's was in violation of state law. Hence why NH still issues them but not as often.
Click to expand...

From the link:
On the night of the raid, Susan Lavoie told police that one of the officers, dressed all in black, looked like Michael Keaton in the Batman movie. According to witnesses, at a public hearing on the raid the following month, several off-duty officers from Nashua showed up in Batman t-shirts to mock her.
Click to expand...

Classy. [rolleyes] ...and to think cops wonder why citizen don't trust them....
 

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