Newbe question

[pipmaster1971]

Hope someone can help out a novice here???

I'm looking for my first firearm, a semi-automatic pistol. I am going to use it for recreational shooting.

My question is: What (if any) is the difference between a regular semi-automatic pistol (like a Glock or Sig P226) and a 1911 model pistol (e.g. the very nice looking S&W 1911)?

Sorry about the newbee question....

 

[Mikey]

Wow this is a pretty big question, there is a great deal different in those guns. I suggest you do some reading on them b/c depending on the interest in this thread you may walk away very confused. And u probably can't put Glock and Sig down as the same either, there is a lot of difference between them as well.

 

[pipmaster1971]

Thanks..I've reviewed both the Sig and Glock spec. and am pretty sure of the differences between them. I was just wondering if there's a specific thing that makes a 1911 a 1911. Sounds like there isn't....

 

[Len-2A Training]

Thanks..I've reviewed both the Sig and Glock spec. and am pretty sure of the differences between them. I was just wondering if there's a specific thing that makes a 1911 a 1911. Sounds like there isn't....

Yup, "John Moses Browning"!!

Invest $19, become a paid member, attend the shoot later this month in <Central>, MA and get a chance to try out a number of different guns. Best way to make a choice is try before you buy, when possible. NES Members Only shoots are good places to get that experience cheaply.

 

[Mikey]

Hey you gave up the secret local of the the spring shoot!

 

[Pilgrim]

http://surplusrifle.com/pistol1911/index.asp

http://www.m1911.org/



Here's some info on the 1911

 

[Len-2A Training]

Mike, you're right . . . brain cramp . . . modified same.

 

[vellnueve]

The 1911 is a single action pistol. That means that you need to have the hammer back before you fire, generally done by pulling back and releasing the slide which chambers a round. With striker fired pistols or double actions like the Sigs, the hammer isn't back or in the case of the Glock there is no hammer. With double action pistols like the Sig, a pull of the trigger will pull the hammer back mechanically and then release it, and subsequent shots will be single or double action depending on the model you have.

Basically, some consider the 1911 to be overly heavy due to its traditional full metal design, hate its low capacity of 7-8 rounds standard, and consider the .45 ACP to be too powerful. Others see these attributes as strengths. Many consider the 1911 to be dangerous to carry because of its single action operation, which requires you to either pull back the hammer with a finger during the draw or requires you to carry with the hammer back. I don't, and I prefer the 1911 type to the others.

 

[andy t]

Another thing to consider is ammo price. .45 is usually quite a bit more expensive than 9mm.
I will repeat advise that I got from my basic firearm safety instructor:
Get a .22. In my case, it was a Walther P22. Of course three weeks after I bought it, I got Glock 23 ( I was hoping for a 19, but in MA they come and go )

 

[matt]

Yup, "John Moses Browning"!!

Invest $19, become a paid member, attend the shoot later this month in <Central>, MA and get a chance to try out a number of different guns. Best way to make a choice is try before you buy, when possible. NES Members Only shoots are good places to get that experience cheaply.

That's really good advice. I'll have a Sig and 1911 there and would be happy to show the differences. Don't have a Glock, but I'm sure there will be many there and someone willing to let you try it out.

The shoot is next weekend, and it is not too far from Nashua (<1 hour).

Matt

 

[Scrivener]

Thanks..I've reviewed both the Sig and Glock spec. and am pretty sure of the differences between them. I was just wondering if there's a specific thing that makes a 1911 a 1911. Sounds like there isn't....

HERESY!

BURN THE HERETIC!

Nothing specific, indeed.

The 1911 is a specific, single-action design with a number of key features - particularly its longevity.

SIGs and Glocks are NOT 1911's. Go to 1911Forum.com, learn of The Blessed One Design and beg the omniscient American genius John Moses Browning to forgive your ignorance.

 

[pipmaster1971]

Thanks for the advice. I'm tempted to join and go to the shoot....Providing I can get away from the wife assigned "yard duty" on that day (I'm sure all the married guys here can sympathize with that). I had thought of going with a .22, however a colleague of mine had (what seems like) a good point:

Your first gun should be a higher calliber. First of all you'll better handle / get used to recoil; and secondly it is something that can be used for recreational shooting and home defense (especially if you'll only get one gun). If you like shooting as a hobby then get something smaller later to save $$$ on ammo.

I don't know what you guys think of that, but it seems to make sense.

Of course, my first recent experience with the sport has told me I will enjoy it. Which is also bad for my wife as I promised her I would get a new carpet in the dining room.

 

[Mikey]

It is fun and I say damn the new carpet.

Most people will tell you to go with a .22 for your first gun, I for one think a .357/.38spl. is the ideal first gun. You get the best of both worlds, cheap .38 ammo with low recoil for practice and big .357 for defense and fun. And once you master the .357 recoil then anything below 10mm of .41 mag is pretty easy to get use to. But this is just my opinion and I am not an instructor.

 

[pipmaster1971]

HERESY!

BURN THE HERETIC!

Nothing specific, indeed.

The 1911 is a specific, single-action design with a number of key features - particularly its longevity.

SIGs and Glocks are NOT 1911's. Go to 1911Forum.com, learn of The Blessed One Design and beg the omniscient American genius John Moses Browning to forgive your ignorance.

I was worried then...Forgive me?

 

[Lugnut]

I personally don't really agree with your friends advice:
"Your first gun should be a higher calliber. First of all you'll better handle / get used to recoil; and secondly it is something that can be used for recreational shooting and home defense (especially if you'll only get one gun). If you like shooting as a hobby then get something smaller later to save $$$ on ammo."

Here's mine:
"Your first gun should be a gun that will give you lots of cheap shooting time to develop good shooting technique- including but not limited to trigger control, trigger control, trigger control and sight alignment/picture. .22 is a great inexpensive starting point- both for guns and ammo. You don't want to start with a larger caliber gun which will make learning the fundamentals more challenging to say the least. Worse case you get a bad flinch habit that is difficult to rid. After this, if you like shooting as a hobby/sport you can buy a larger gun for self defense, etc."

 

[boomerang]

I agree entirely with Lugnut.

Some of us that shoot 22 a lot can put all our shots into a couple inches one handed at 50 feet rapid fire and can shoot into the size of a quarter more often than not.
New shooters always think they'll be a "natural" good shot, but the learning curve is often steep. Unlearning a flinch is harder and takes longer with center fire.

I'll also add, there are classic pistol designs (1911, single action army types, mid frame revolvers, etc...) that have stood the test of time.
These are the ones that I feel a person starting out should be looking at before thinking of another some-such. The test of time means they're good shooting guns.

My advice for a first gun would be a S&W revolver in 22, then a 38/357 double action revolver, then a 1911.
As with all things opinionated, that's only my opinion.

 

[vellnueve]

One thought would be to get a SW 617 (.22lr revolver) and a SW 686 (.38/357 revolver) - They are the same frame, same grip, same action, pretty much the same weight. That said, I would go with a .22 for your first gun, or at most a .38/.357.

 

[dwarven1]

Hope someone can help out a novice here???

I'm looking for my first firearm, a semi-automatic pistol. I am going to use it for recreational shooting.

My question is: What (if any) is the difference between a regular semi-automatic pistol (like a Glock or Sig P226) and a 1911 model pistol (e.g. the very nice looking S&W 1911)?

Sorry about the newbee question....

The 1911 is a nearly 100 design that has stood the test of time - and is still a best seller. While the Glock and the Sig are good guns, the 1911 is simply perfection. (and I didn't own a 1911 for many years... but I have come to see the Light! Hallelelujah!)

Another thing to consider is ammo price. .45 is usually quite a bit more expensive than 9mm.
I will repeat advise that I got from my basic firearm safety instructor:
Get a .22.

All true; .45 is somewhere in the vicinity of $10-12 a box; 9mm considerably less, and .22 can be had for about $10-$12 for a box of 550! You get way more trigger time for your money with a 22.

Thanks for the advice. I'm tempted to join and go to the shoot....Providing I can get away from the wife assigned "yard duty" on that day (I'm sure all the married guys here can sympathize with that). I had thought of going with a .22, however a colleague of mine had (what seems like) a good point:

Your first gun should be a higher calliber. First of all you'll better handle / get used to recoil; and secondly it is something that can be used for recreational shooting and home defense (especially if you'll only get one gun). If you like shooting as a hobby then get something smaller later to save $$$ on ammo.

I don't know what you guys think of that, but it seems to make sense.

Of course, my first recent experience with the sport has told me I will enjoy it. Which is also bad for my wife as I promised her I would get a new carpet in the dining room.

Your colleague is dead wrong; what you'll get is a world-class flinch. If you MUST get a centerfire as your first handgun, get a .357 - something like a Model 19 or a 686 - and shoot light target .38 special loads in it, as they have a lighter recoil. A .22 is a better choice because of the lower cost of ammo and the almost non-existant recoil - you will learn much better habits with the .22.

Think of it this way: Was the car you learned to drive on an old beater without a lot of horsepower, or was it a brand-new BMW M5? You didn't know how to handle the horsepower of a sportscar your first time out, so you were probably in something with a lot less power. Same thing for a gun - get the lower powered one to learn on.

BTW... although I enjoy shooting my .45's, and my .357 Magnums, I still own my Ruger Mk 1 .22, and I just purchased a S&W 617 - in .22. You never outgrow the need for a good .22. (OK, yes. My first gun was a .357. But my second handgun was a Ruger Mk 1.)

 

[matt]

That's really good advice. I'll have a Sig and 1911 there and would be happy to show the differences. Don't have a Glock, but I'm sure there will be many there and someone willing to let you try it out.

The shoot is next weekend, and it is not too far from Nashua (<1 hour).

Matt

BTW: I was mistaken: the shoot is on the 19th, not this next weekend. Sorry.

Also, your friend may be well intentioned, but I agree with the others: get a .22. Or better yet, get a .22 and something in 9mm or .357.

If you get a .357 you can shoot .38spl in it also. This will have less kick and you can still get the .357 loads for bigger boom/recoil/defense. Don't go bigger than this, or 9mm, for your first.

I started with a 9mm and I developed a killer flinch that I still have to work to keep at bay. Flinch is an involentary response to the BANG and is really hard to get rid of. There are several good threads here on the forum about it (including one I started because of this problem!) with good advice on how to eliminate it once it is there, but your better off not developing it from the start.

I'll also bring a couple of .22's to the shoot as well (Browning Buckmark and a Ruger MKII) and I'm sure there will be others.

If you can't make the shoot, at least go to Manchester firing line where you can compare the Sig and Glock by renting them, but it will cost you at least $50 compared to the $20 at the shoot, and you'll get to try more guns at the shoot.

good luck, Matt

 

[pipmaster1971]

Thanks for the advice. What I've decided to do is take an NRA Basic Pistol course next weekend. The instructor said there is a range of guns they will let the students loan on the range. I will wait until after that before I venture into a gun shop.

Also, your friend may be well intentioned, but I agree with the others: get a .22. Or better yet, get a .22 and something in 9mm or .357

I'd love to get 2....This could turn into an expensive hobby. I am tempted to go for a .22 for my first though, as many of you have said the cost benefit alone would be worthwhile even if I get a larger caliber gun later on.

 

[dwarven1]

This could turn into an expensive hobby.

My advice to you is to get your wife hooked involved in shooting, so that she won't scream when you go buy another gun - she'll just go "Oh, goodie... one more for me!"

 

[pipmaster1971]

My advice to you is to get your wife hooked involved in shooting, so that she won't scream when you go buy another gun - she'll just go "Oh, goodie... one more for me!"

I agree, and since she is encouraging me to do take it up as a hobby I think it might be easy....She still wants that new carpet though

 

[Lugnut]

pip- trust us on this. Get a .22... trade it up for a larger caliber once you get some good skills developed. I can assure you the amount of "loss" in the trade in is going to be insignificant in the grand scheme. Don't get get caught up in the macho big gun hype... just yet anyway.

 

[SFWriter]

It is fun and I say damn the new carpet.

Most people will tell you to go with a .22 for your first gun, I for one think a .357/.38spl. is the ideal first gun. You get the best of both worlds, cheap .38 ammo with low recoil for practice and big .357 for defense and fun. And once you master the .357 recoil then anything below 10mm of .41 mag is pretty easy to get use to. But this is just my opinion and I am not an instructor.

I agree completely. My first gun was a S+W Model 686 (below) and I love it. The weight reduces recoil and even the Magnums aren't that bad.

 

[Fooped]

Thanks for the advice. I'm tempted to join and go to the shoot....Providing I can get away from the wife assigned "yard duty" on that day (I'm sure all the married guys here can sympathize with that).

Nope, not all of us. You're the man, wear the pants, respectfully but firmly give your wife an alternate date when you will take care of this "assigned" yard work (and follow through with it), join the board as a member, attend the shoot and gain a wealth of knowledge that might otherwise take months if not years to learn in one day.

And have a ton of fun and laughs with a bunch of great people.


That is all.

 

[dwarven1]

pip- trust us on this. Get a .22... trade it up for a larger caliber once you get some good skills developed.

NO NO NO NO NONONO! Do not EVER sell your first gun!!!!! DAHMIK.

Don't get get caught up in the macho big gun hype... just yet anyway.

I agree with that... my nephew just HAD to borrow an FAL for the Appleseed shoot two weeks ago - his girlfriend shot Crak's 10/22. Want to guess whose groups were smaller at the end of the second day? Hint: It wasn't the macho dude shooting the .308. Think little 5'1" girl shooting a .22.

I'd rather be accurate with a .22 than miss with a .308.

 

[PistolPete]

Get yourself a full size 9mm S&W M&P and a trigger job and you have a gun for almost any situation.

 

[matt]

What I've decided to do is take an NRA Basic Pistol course next weekend.
The instructor said there is a range of guns they will let the students loan on the range.

Good for you! I know you guys in NH don't NEED it legally, but it is a good move and will be worth your while. That's a smart move, whatever gun you buy for your first.

Matt

 

[Executive]

The 1911 is a specific, single-action design with a number of key features - particularly its longevity.

Scriv, I'm surprised at you. While the nearly 100 year service history of the 1911 design is a testament to its excellence of design, longevity in and of itself is clearly not a "feature". I agree with everything else you've said regarding JMB and the 1911 in general and just wanted to poke a little fun back at you.

Note to the OP: consider a pistol with a conversion kit that will allow you to shoot .22LR. This will help you develop good shooting technique with the lighter recoil of the .22, give you the option of using a larger caliber (9mm, .45 ??) and allow low cost practice as long as you own the package. Most 1911s accept conversion kits, as do many Glocks and the Beretta 92FS. Good luck.

 

[pipmaster1971]

OK, a quick update for those that are interested...So I'm off on (my first) shooting course on the weekend, but I was lucky enough to try out some guns with a colleague. I am tempted to go with a Ruger Mk II or Mk III as my first pistol (pretty good price range also); the only problem is he had a Sig-Sauer P226 --- Sure the recoil took a bit of getting used to, but OMG!!!! I was tempted to drive upto Riley's there and then