Next Step Up From M&P Sport?

[Bourget117]

I've never seen a BCM charging handle break in half, but I have seen one on a Colt 6920 break off.

I'm sure Colt is better than Palmetto or Windham, but I would never buy a Colt over a BCM.

Ive never seen a colt charging handle break but I did change mine to a Noveske Raptor ambi because I think it's 100 times better.
However I have recently seen a BCM bolt break that was not that old.

 

[xtry51]

Ive never seen a colt charging handle break but I did change mine to a Noveske Raptor ambi because I think it's 100 times better.
However I have recently seen a BCM bolt break that was not that old.

Failure mode?

 

[josh2600]

What's the consensus on LMT? Not cheap, but the reviews are decent. Looking at a used one.

Bought mine used many years ago and it eats everything always. Never clean it. Thing is pretty amazing. If I feed it my self loaded precision rounds (77gr mk/varget) it will shoot moa too. That's with a 14.5" chrome lined barrel.

 

[josh2600]

That's a fantastic deal, and I've been looking very closely at it, but I always go back to a piece of advice my father gave me when I was younger: when you buy something for the first time and you need it to be reliable, buy it new. That way you have the benefit of the warranty. Once you learn how to troubleshoot/fix/maintain it, you'll have the confidence to buy the next one used.

That is one of the reasons I don't want to build an AR as my first rifle.

After you upgrade 75% of the gun, you'll be kicking yourself for not just building right off the bat, but do what you like

 

[Duxprep]

Ive never seen a colt charging handle break but I did change mine to a Noveske Raptor ambi because I think it's 100 times better.
However I have recently seen a BCM bolt break that was not that old.

All guns and parts can break. BCMs Colts, LMTs and Daniel Defense just break less often

 

[Salyeica]

After you upgrade 75% of the gun, you'll be kicking yourself for not just building right off the bat, but do what you like

I no more want to build a rifle with no knowledge than I want to build a solo glider with similar knowledge and try to fly it around the neighborhood.

 

[slap shot]

I no more want to build a rifle with no knowledge than I want to build a solo glider with similar knowledge and try to fly it around the neighborhood.

lol very funny, but not really a good analogy. Anyone can assemble, not build, and AR after watching a couple of videos. To each his own however.

 

[Arlo39]

Windham Weaponry. I got mine for under $900.

 

[Terminator03]

I no more want to build a rifle with no knowledge than I want to build a solo glider with similar knowledge and try to fly it around the neighborhood.

That isn't really a good analogy though. "Building" an AR is pretty idiot proof, especially if you aren't assembling the upper. All you are doing is pushing in the same two pins you will do every time you clean the rifle. Even the lower is gut simple if you don't buy an already assembled one. Watch a YouTube video and you'll see for yourself.

 

[mac1911]

Not to high jack but what really makes colt any better. Heck they don't make shit for themselves and I'm sure they search out the cheapest vendor/manufacture like many do.

Heck Continental Machine in CT makes a shit ton of parts for Colt and everyone along with aero machine and some others......at one point SW found stag good enough to make their ARs for a while.

For me unless there is one guy measuring every part and xray,magflux, particle saturation or what ever they do to inspect metal for metal defects there really isn't much difference between ARs under 1000$
The main difference in the inexpensive ARs is the quality of the barrels, that's just MHO

 

[mac1911]

I no more want to build a rifle with no knowledge than I want to build a solo glider with similar knowledge and try to fly it around the neighborhood.

Basically "building" a AR is like doing a jigsaw puzzle. Fine if you have zero mechanical ability and don't even own a few tools like a small hammer and some screwdrivers.....don't build a AR.
I also recommend not building the cheapest AR possible.....the key to building is to build the best AR you can for XXX vs paying for a pre assembled AR for YYYY.

 

[AM13]

I no more want to build a rifle with no knowledge than I want to build a solo glider with similar knowledge and try to fly it around the neighborhood.

because you haven't done it yet, once you do you wont want to buy one of the rack. its not that difficult and more fun

 

[Varmint]

i get that you guys like building them - I've been building my own PCs for like 2 decades and that's fun. I'd never buy a brand name PC.

But for some reason I like having a brand name AR, the whole thing is BCM, even the stock and muzzle device. Can't really say why. I also want an LMT.

 

[sschevy]

Not to high jack but what really makes colt any better. Heck they don't make shit for themselves and I'm sure they search out the cheapest vendor/manufacture like many do.

Heck Continental Machine in CT makes a shit ton of parts for Colt and everyone along with aero machine and some others......at one point SW found stag good enough to make their ARs for a while.

For me unless there is one guy measuring every part and xray,magflux, particle saturation or what ever they do to inspect metal for metal defects there really isn't much difference between ARs under 1000$
The main difference in the inexpensive ARs is the quality of the barrels, that's just MHO

LMT magnetic particle tests 60 different points in every rifle.... And the guy who does it....his name is Gene.... Just thought is was funny that there was actually a company and one guy in that company that does exactly what you said in your last statement.... And yes they even MP test their charging handles...

 

[sschevy]

LMT magnetic particle tests 60 different points in every rifle.... And the guy who does it....his name is Gene.... Just thought is was funny that there was actually a company and one guy in that company that does exactly what you said in your last statement.... And yes they even MP test their charging handles...

Component failure is the biggest problem I see come through my shop and the main culprit is MIM (metal injection molding) components, the majority of these failures are from bushmaster, Sig and smith.

Bolt catches are the most commonly broken parts, followed by the buffer detent and the barrel nut from people trying to change out hand guards to rails, tearing the teeth right off the nut..... This could also be the fault of companies that feel the need to torque barrel nuts to 200 ft lbs

I have yet to see any of this happen with a colt, BCM, LMT, LWRC, PWS, or even a windham....

 

[mac1911]

LMT magnetic particle tests 60 different points in every rifle.... And the guy who does it....his name is Gene.... Just thought is was funny that there was actually a company and one guy in that company that does exactly what you said in your last statement.... And yes they even MP test their charging handles...

See that's awesome I had no clue LMT did that. I bought a standard carbine it was a nice gun. Cost me 1150$ when I bought it...I see they are 1300-1500 now. I looked into their 20" cmp model and was not to impressed....not really sure what makes them 1800$?

It's all fun.

 

[boiler_eng]

Basically "building" a AR is like doing a jigsaw puzzle. Fine if you have zero mechanical ability and don't even own a few tools like a small hammer and some screwdrivers.....don't build a AR.
I also recommend not building the cheapest AR possible.....the key to building is to build the best AR you can for XXX vs paying for a pre assembled AR for YYYY.

Maybe a dumb question, but a AR like the Ruger, is that something someone could slowly replace parts to upgrade/customize over time as one learns what they want with an AR or is it really something where its difficult to customize along the way and you just start building anew once you know what you want?

I ask partially because it seems easier to progressively spend the money as one learns vs spending it all up front without experience to shape choices.

 

[Coyote33]

I just read two threads on this stuff on sale today alone!

The new best inexpensive rifle you can buy.

and

BLACK FRIDAY SALES ARE HERE!!

 

[mtnbiker26]

...I ask partially because it seems easier to progressively spend the money as one learns vs spending it all up front without experience to shape choices.

Exactly. All I know is that I want it to fit me, I want it to be reliable and I want bullets to shoot out the front. I have no baseline to compare the hundreds of possible options.

 

[boiler_eng]

Exactly. All I know is that I want it to fit me, I want it to be reliable and I want bullets to shoot out the front. I have no baseline to compare the hundreds of possible options.

Yeah, especially after the last gun I bought was for trap where the overriding wisdom is try, figure out what you really want, then spend the most you can stomach and that's with guns that have almost 0 customisable aftermarket features.

So my first thought is to go middle of the road and then venture from there as time/funds allow.

First step is getting the money allocated/approved in the household budget.

 

[daekken]

Maybe a dumb question, but a AR like the Ruger, is that something someone could slowly replace parts to upgrade/customize over time as one learns what they want with an AR or is it really something where its difficult to customize along the way and you just start building anew once you know what you want?

I ask partially because it seems easier to progressively spend the money as one learns vs spending it all up front without experience to shape choices.

From the reviews I've seen it's just a regular, upgradeable AR. I believe the post-ban model has no muzzle device so you should be able to change handguards, etc.

Things like grip, etc., should be easy. I don't think Ruger uses loctite or stakes the castlenut, etc.

The progressive upgrade route is popular but many advise against it since over time it's more expensive. You could always save original parts for a new build or something.

I guess you could think of it like a credit card. Pay the money up front or pay less now but risk "interest."

ETA: There is always the possibility you find little to no upgrades necessary. Thinks like dust covers, mag release, etc. I don't really feel the need to upgrade those. Similarly, back when I got my 10/22 I was all interested in all the upgrade/aftermarket options...and....it's still stock, other than a scope. I am just comfortable with it as-is. Only real upgrade I've considered is bolt release since the stock one is kinda annoying.

I bet you'd find things you might want to tweak and then research alternatives. Just watch YouTube reviews etc.

 

[boiler_eng]

From the reviews I've seen it's just a regular, upgradeable AR. I believe the post-ban model has no muzzle device so you should be able to change handguards, etc.

Things like grip, etc., should be easy. I don't think Ruger uses loctite or stakes the castlenut, etc.

The progressive upgrade route is popular but many advise against it since over time it's more expensive. You could always save original parts for a new build or something.

I guess you could think of it like a credit card. Pay the money up front or pay less now but risk "interest."

Well more like buying stock now vs one year. Either you know right and its cheaper now, or you intuit wrong and money wasn't really saved.

If I knew what I wanted waiting and buying lessor would be a bad financial choice but, my thought is if I can't weigh properly now it's more likely to lose money on misteps in component choice which means I wouldn't really be a lock to save by going big now.

 

[Bonesinium]

Is there anyone out there putting out seriously crap AR's or crap AR parts that should be completely avoided? It seems like even the cheapest of stuff is functional these days, though maybe doesn't have the longevity.

 

[mac1911]

Is there anyone out there putting out seriously crap AR's or crap AR parts that should be completely avoided? It seems like even the cheapest of stuff is functional these days, though maybe doesn't have the longevity.

My friend bought a discount LPK from PSA , their PTAC line. It works but feels like dragging sandpaper.
The upper is a PTAC special it has ran and shoots ok but there is something cheap and gritty about it.

 

[daekken]

Well more like buying stock now vs one year. Either you know right and its cheaper now, or you intuit wrong and money wasn't really saved.

If I knew what I wanted waiting and buying lessor would be a bad financial choice but, my thought is if I can't weigh properly now it's more likely to lose money on misteps in component choice which means I wouldn't really be a lock to save by going big now.

It's pretty personal. Certain things just don't interest me whereas one of my friends obsesses over the most minute details and buys new parts frequently for every little facet of the rifle. I'm lefty so I've considered stuff like an ambi BCM gunfighter charging handle, etc. Only things that are of value to me.

If you don't know what you want I'd probably suggest buying something like the Ruger and then after having played around with it, decide if there's anything you'd like to improve. Grip not feeling great? Try a magpul. Trigger too gritty? Try an ALG QMS, etc. Pretty much everything is customizable and there's plenty of videos on how to replace stuff.

Things like crazy $250 triggers are hard to gauge if you've never used a stock one.

 

[josh2600]

I no more want to build a rifle with no knowledge than I want to build a solo glider with similar knowledge and try to fly it around the neighborhood.

I hear what you're saying but if you have youtube and a little common sense, you can pull it off. Any mechanical aptitude at all and it'll be a snap. Not to mention a bunch of people here eager to help.

 

[Dip Dungles]

Got to say. This thread is very helpful for someone attempting to build their own AR I being one of them. Great thread OP

 

[Salyeica]

Ok...let's say this thread was enough to convince me to build my own AR. And let's say I was to go the BCM route. Where do I even begin? BCM's website shows about 12 different 14.5" barrel options. Some with different types of barrels, some with rails and handguards. WTF???

 

[mursenary4]

Ok...let's say this thread was enough to convince me to build my own AR. And let's say I was to go the BCM route. Where do I even begin? BCM's website shows about 12 different 14.5" barrel options. Some with different types of barrels, some with rails and handguards. WTF???

Decide what you want. you want it to look cool at the range or just be functional? You want to spend x or y. Do care about weight to the point that you will pay extra for a lighter profile barrel? Answer those questions and you'll be down to just a few options. You can look through the ar-15 thread on this forum and on ar15.com to get more ideas as well. If still unsure, pick one lol. I'm sure you'll be building another one a year from now regardless of your decision.

 

[mtnbiker26]

Ok...let's say this thread was enough to convince me to build my own AR. And let's say I was to go the BCM route. Where do I even begin? BCM's website shows about 12 different 14.5" barrel options. Some with different types of barrels, some with rails and handguards. WTF???

I felt the same way. Looked at the website and then had to google around to learn some new terms and narrow it down to the RECCE. Then they only have FDE/ODG and not plain black plus the website says they don't ship to MA.