What gun? You need to read this thread all the way back.
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You two, get a room. Just do not do it on this thread!
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oregon militia seizes building
- Thread starter just jim
- Start date
What gun? You need to read this thread all the way back.
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You two, get a room. Just do not do it on this thread!
Keep bringing this issue up with our presidential candidates. This is what I am doing. So far no real success but I am not giving up.
and how'd you contact the donald about this? shoot him a ****in' tweet?![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
One possible way is this:
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/contact
When did I say he pointed a gun?
He was armed, which was a mistake in that situation if he wanted to take the martyr route.
He sort of reached towards his pocket, but never actually drew his gun, which was a mistake regardless.
He acted like he might become a combatant, but never followed through.
Lose/lose.
SteelShooter
NES Member
I saw that as well, I also thought he might have been grabbing where he was shot, at that point he had already been shot at at least 3 times.
He'd already been shot before he made any motions that looked like he was reaching for anything.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When did I say you said he pointed a gun?
As has been thoroughly gone over in this thread and damn near everywhere else, Lavoy was known for carrying a 45 revolver on his right hip. He was an upstanding member of his community and had no need to carry a stolen gun.
The movements he made could very well have been from being shot and reaching for the wound.
Until the dash cams, body cams, audio are released, we know nothing more than what we are being told by the feds. And we all know that they NEVER lie to cover their own ass right? Especially seeing as we now know that two of the feds lied about discharging their weapons.
So basically, until they release the rest of the footage, I'd avoid stating the unknown in the form of facts.
Jason Flare
NES Member
I don't get how a guy carrying a gun can become less of a martyr.
For most it's probably fear of leaving a family behind. That could make a lot of decent men second guess themselves at the last second.
I am sorry, but you did not do your homework. Please, read this thread.
Was it ever concluded by any investigator that the gun discovered on the site was his gun? I know what our brave troops are saying, but.....exactly!
You are stopped at the traffic stop. Policeman checks your plate and considers you armed. You are asked to produce your driver's license. You make a move to pull your wallet from your back pocket. Bum! You are dead. Three bullets in your back.
Is this what we want here?
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Public perception is key.
Their only hope of success was the information war, not the physical one.
The stolen gun thing makes no sense whatsoever.
The video is inconclusive, IMO. The stolen gun and FBI failure to report will be more telling than a drone video with no audio.
Everything the govt did to the Hammond family was wrong. This shooting was likely unjustified, but it does appear that he drops his hands (not necessarily towards his pocket) before he's shot, but it's tough to tell.
There's enough gray area for the .gov to justify this to the masses unless we get more or new info.
The stolen gun is sketchy, as is the FBI failing to report that they also fired.
We'll have to see where this goes. At least there is still media coverage regarding the inconsistencies in the FBIs story.
ninja edit, reading comprehension failure on my part. ![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
+1
They need to tie this with other shootings. Time when LEO can empty out mag into a person who appears to have a gun should be gone. Unless the suspect is firing, you have to be trained to pacify them but not to kill them. The video shows few bad firearm practices which, by the way, put others in a danger. We had the very same situation in Watertown. Cowboys firing just because nobody trained them well. I have an army background and I can tell you that we were tortured at ranges to make sure we can control our fear and master our emotions. It is very hard and not everybody can respect the discipline but it must be done.
Lavoy died in a well trained cold blooded ambush to send a message...
Message was received. It was in sign language, though. Let's press for all details so we can avoid similar messages in the future.
kevin9
NES Member
Was sorta on the fence here initially. Now having seen the inside-the-truck video and heard the results I think it definitely was murder by LEO. Here are the key points in my mind:
First, the LEOs shot first, hitting the truck window while he was swerving away from them. IMNSHO that was not a justified attempted use of deadly force to start the whole end-game encounter.
Second, he was shot in the back 3 times. What's not clear to me is exactly when and which officer first shot him. Was he shot first by the officer behind the truck while facing the officer coming from the woods, or was he shot by the officer coming from the woods after turning back toward the truck and starting to lower his hands? If the former then he clearly was short in the back with his hands up. Even if it was the later, his shooting absolutely fails the third test.
Third, Finicum never had a gun in his hand. He does not appear to have even put a hand in either pocket. There was no threat of deadly force to any officer once the truck stopped and he got out.
Finicum made 2 debatable mistakes, none of which in any way justify what happened. First, fleeing the first stop and his "just shoot me now" talk at the first stop escalated the situation. This assumes the sense of what happened at the stop was conveyed to the roadblock. Second, exiting the truck so quickly appears to have been a mistake. Not sure we'll ever know why, maybe he was trying to draw attention and fire away from the people in the truck. Once out of the truck he was entirely at the mercy of the officers with no support from the others. He lost the independent documenting of what was happening.
I hope and pray this goes to court somehow. The one question I want to see asked is when did the officers actually see the gun he supposedly had in his pocket (identify that point on the video relative to when he was shot)? And, what threat of deadly force was present at the moment the shots where fired? Follow that line of questioning and the whole shoot unravels like a cheap sweater.
![[puke]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/023.gif "Puke [puke]")
First, the LEOs shot first, hitting the truck window while he was swerving away from them. IMNSHO that was not a justified attempted use of deadly force to start the whole end-game encounter.
Second, he was shot in the back 3 times. What's not clear to me is exactly when and which officer first shot him. Was he shot first by the officer behind the truck while facing the officer coming from the woods, or was he shot by the officer coming from the woods after turning back toward the truck and starting to lower his hands? If the former then he clearly was short in the back with his hands up. Even if it was the later, his shooting absolutely fails the third test.
Third, Finicum never had a gun in his hand. He does not appear to have even put a hand in either pocket. There was no threat of deadly force to any officer once the truck stopped and he got out.
Finicum made 2 debatable mistakes, none of which in any way justify what happened. First, fleeing the first stop and his "just shoot me now" talk at the first stop escalated the situation. This assumes the sense of what happened at the stop was conveyed to the roadblock. Second, exiting the truck so quickly appears to have been a mistake. Not sure we'll ever know why, maybe he was trying to draw attention and fire away from the people in the truck. Once out of the truck he was entirely at the mercy of the officers with no support from the others. He lost the independent documenting of what was happening.
I hope and pray this goes to court somehow. The one question I want to see asked is when did the officers actually see the gun he supposedly had in his pocket (identify that point on the video relative to when he was shot)? And, what threat of deadly force was present at the moment the shots where fired? Follow that line of questioning and the whole shoot unravels like a cheap sweater.
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I hope and pray this goes to court somehow. The one question I want to see asked is when did the officers actually see the gun he supposedly had in his pocket (identify that point on the video relative to when he was shot)? And, what threat of deadly force was present at the moment the shots where fired? Follow that line of questioning and the whole shoot unravels like a cheap sweater.
It won't. We live in the country where guys like Jose Guerena get murdered in their own home for doing nothing wrong, and the machine automatically goes to bat like a gag reflex of sorts to cover up for its wrongdoings.
-Mike
the_shootist
Banned
The government will tell us we're not seeing what we think we're seeing on these videos. How much longer before this thing explodes? Stock up on ammo folks!
BTW, where the MSM reports on this? Pathetic!
I did see this hot topic on Faux News though...
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...outfit-malfunction-during-paris/?intcmp=hppop
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Horrible
NES Member
Seriously. They were all over the story about the FBI vindicating itself yesterday, though!
SteelShooter
NES Member
Third, Finicum never had a gun in his hand. He does not appear to have even put a hand in either pocket. There was no threat of deadly force to any officer once the truck stopped and he got out.
Just to address this issue, he definitely looks like he is moving to get to his shoulder rig that I have seen pictures of him wearing before, but as I said, this may have been because he was reaching to where he was shot too.
IMHO they shot him "cuz furtive movement" which may or may not have been him reaching for a gun.
-Mike
He was shot at and possibly hit before that even happened.
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the_shootist
Banned
We can speculate on that, and I have my opinion of what MIGHT have happened there however; what I feel is not debatable based on those videos is:
Why did law enforcement continue firing on the truck for several minutes when it was clear they weren't being fired upon? Where did the threat exist at that point?
This!
It was a set up. The cheering of the masses on other forums makes me sick. What has happened to us?
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Do not kid yourself! What training? Maybe how to get more overtime pay but that is about it.
the_shootist
Banned
There are many people that think this is 'normal' in today's society and revolution CAN'T happen here. They can laugh all they want but those who think that are in for a rude awakening. The country is no longer the place you think it is....it's only a matter of time before we all realize it! Those who have taken steps to prepare have a better chance of survival than those that don't
As an old man I have watched how Americans have been killed for many years by law enforcement. They are trained to kill and they use past killings to train agents. They study each shoot and change what they need to in the practice. The killing of Lavoy will go down as a textbook perfect ambush and will be used as a training aid on how to lure out and kill people.
the_shootist
Banned
Perhaps they should focus more on how to avoid killing people during their training....just a thought...
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So the FBI Chief is having a hard time accepting Oblunder's bullcrap? I must say, reading this was refreshing but I dare say, too little too late
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