Practical Implications of H4885 for Purchasing and Possessing

pastera said:
So, because off duty can't carry a LCFD, nothing they carry would legally be a LCF.
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This could get interesting. It is common (at least in other parts of the US) that PD regulations demand that off-duty officers carry their duty weapon and ammo as issued at all times. I doubt that many PDs in MA have such a regulation. But if even one does and they try to jam an off-duty officer up on this new law, I could see some sparks flying at the state house.
 
Anybody seen this? https://www.mass.gov/info-details/mass-general-laws-c140-ss-131m


Sorry if it's been posted already, but a lot of this law is (according to this) not going into effect until April 2026, including the new restrictions on large capacity feeding devices and prohibitions on assault-style firearms. Keep in mind the new restriction is on "assault-style firearms," whereas the old restriction--in place until April 2026, according to the above--applies to "assault weapons." So, if this is correct, the changes in definitions might take place in October of this year, but the new prohibitions on possession of them don't take place until nearly two years from now.

Disclaimer: I haven't had time to dig into this, it's very much a shoot-from-the-hip analysis (Dear Lord, forgive me that one) and this is an unofficial version of M.G.L.
 
Jonzey13 said:
Anybody seen this? https://www.mass.gov/info-details/mass-general-laws-c140-ss-131m


Sorry if it's been posted already, but a lot of this law is (according to this) not going into effect until April 2026, including the new restrictions on large capacity feeding devices and prohibitions on assault-style firearms. Keep in mind the new restriction is on "assault-style firearms," whereas the old restriction--in place until April 2026, according to the above--applies to "assault weapons." So, if this is correct, the changes in definitions might take place in October of this year, but the new prohibitions on possession of them don't take place until nearly two years from now.

Disclaimer: I haven't had time to dig into this, it's very much a shoot-from-the-hip analysis (Dear Lord, forgive me that one) and this is an unofficial version of M.G.L.
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milktree said:
2026? WTF? Where did that date come from?
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DJBrad said:
That’s what I said when I saw that the other day. What significance is 4/23/2026??!
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Doing some searching in the bill, the closest I could get to this is that at the very end of the bill, it says "SECTION 159. Sections 38 and 75 shall take effect 18 months after the effective date of this act."

10/23/2024 + 18 months = 4/23/2026
 
DJBrad said:
That’s what I said when I saw that the other day. What significance is 4/23/2026??!
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It's 18 months after the effective date of the bill (10/23/2024) and there are two sections (38 and 75) that are set to go into effect on that date. However, the language amending 131M is found in section 71, which I cannot find a delay for in the actual text of the bill.

I believe this is a clerical error. If it's not, then the state has removed the definition of "Assault Weapon" in section 121 (which will go into effect on 10/23/2024) and substituted it with "Assault-Style Firearm" while not having a provision that bans an "Assault Style-Firearm" for 1.5 years.

So you'd have 1.5 years of 131M banning "Assault Weapons" which would now be an undefined term. Arguably* neither "Assault Weapons" or "Assault-Style Firearms" would be banned for 1.5 years, but would still grandfather only pre 8/1 rifles once in effect.

*good luck getting a court to agree though
 
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Hombiez said:
It's 18 months after the effective date of the bill (10/23/2024) and there are two sections (38 and 75) that are set to go into effect on that date. However, the language amending 131M is found in section 71, which I cannot find a delay for in the actual text of the bill.

I believe this is a clerical error. If it's not, then the state has removed the definition of "Assault Weapon" in section 121 (which will go into effect on 10/23/2024) and substituted it with "Assault-Style Firearm" while not having a provision that bans an "Assault Style-Firearm" for 1.5 years.

So you'd have 1.5 years of 131M banning "Assault Weapons" which would now be an undefined term. Arguably* neither "Assault Weapons" or "Assault-Style Firearms" would be banned for 1.5 years, but would still grandfather only pre 8/1 rifles once in effect.

*good luck getting a court to agree though
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I think you're right. Looks like they may have accidentally listed sections 38 through 75 as going into effect on April 23, 2026.
 
Jonzey13 said:
Anybody seen this? https://www.mass.gov/info-details/mass-general-laws-c140-ss-131m


Sorry if it's been posted already, but a lot of this law is (according to this) not going into effect until April 2026, including the new restrictions on large capacity feeding devices and prohibitions on assault-style firearms. Keep in mind the new restriction is on "assault-style firearms," whereas the old restriction--in place until April 2026, according to the above--applies to "assault weapons." So, if this is correct, the changes in definitions might take place in October of this year, but the new prohibitions on possession of them don't take place until nearly two years from now.

Disclaimer: I haven't had time to dig into this, it's very much a shoot-from-the-hip analysis (Dear Lord, forgive me that one) and this is an unofficial version of M.G.L.
Click to expand...
Massive disconnect from what the law actually says. There are sections that are delayed. Section 38 and 75 of the act which translates to 140 125 and 140 131Q are delayed 18 months to 4/23/26

The version linked here would result in chaos. AWs are illegal but there is no longer a definition of AWs. 8/1/24 grandfathering does not take effect until 4/23/26 under this version so we have 18 months of selling stuff that would not be grandfathered. It really is a total and complete mess they have made of what was actually passed.
 
CrackPot said:
Massive disconnect from what the law actually says. There are sections that are delayed. Section 38 and 75 of the act which translates to 140 125 and 140 131Q are delayed 18 months to 4/23/26

The version linked here would result in chaos. AWs are illegal but there is no longer a definition of AWs. 8/1/24 grandfathering does not take effect until 4/23/26 under this version so we have 18 months of selling stuff that would not be grandfathered. It really is a total and complete mess they have made of what was actually passed.
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This is further evidence that they have absolutely no clue what they're doing. They can't even read the laws they pass.

Yes, I'm lumping all of the people involved, including the web people who have to sift through this to publish it, in the same bucket.
 
milktree said:
This is further evidence that they have absolutely no clue what they're doing. They can't even read the laws they pass.

Yes, I'm lumping all of the people involved, including the web people who have to sift through this to publish it, in the same bucket.
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Being that this entire legislation is a virtue signaling circus, I doubt any of them really care.
 
CrackPot said:
Massive disconnect from what the law actually says. There are sections that are delayed. Section 38 and 75 of the act which translates to 140 125 and 140 131Q are delayed 18 months to 4/23/26
The version linked here would result in chaos. AWs are illegal but there is no longer a definition of AWs. 8/1/24 grandfathering does not take effect until 4/23/26 under this version so we have 18 months of selling stuff that would not be grandfathered. It really is a total and complete mess they have made of what was actually passed.
Click to expand...
milktree said:
This is further evidence that they have absolutely no clue what they're doing. They can't even read the laws they pass.
Yes, I'm lumping all of the people involved, including the web people who have to sift through this to publish it, in the same bucket.
Click to expand...

We really REALLY need the Statehouse Bookstore to print that Massachusetts Gun Laws poster immediately! This needs to get captured in print.
 
Navigating this law at the same time as researching SBRs for the first time is a recipe for a migraine.

I have a lower that was purchased prior to 8/1 - never eFA10'ed obviously. Can I submit a Form 1 and build it as an SBR? Does 10/23 make any difference here? What evil features can it have?
 
kalash said:
Navigating this law at the same time as researching SBRs for the first time is a recipe for a migraine.

I have a lower that was purchased prior to 8/1 - never eFA10'ed obviously. Can I submit a Form 1 and build it as an SBR? Does 10/23 make any difference here? What evil features can it have?
Click to expand...

- Probably. Not enough plenty of data from the ATF yet. (right @CrackPot ?)
- Yes. Until then it's subject to the AWB.
- Anything you want after 10/22
 
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kalash said:
Navigating this law at the same time as researching SBRs for the first time is a recipe for a migraine.

I have a lower that was purchased prior to 8/1 - never eFA10'ed obviously. Can I submit a Form 1 and build it as an SBR? Does 10/23 make any difference here? What evil features can it have?
Click to expand...
I submitted a form one for a lower exactly as you describe on 8/1 and was approved 10 days latter
 
Jonzey13 said:
Anybody seen this? https://www.mass.gov/info-details/mass-general-laws-c140-ss-131m


Sorry if it's been posted already, but a lot of this law is (according to this) not going into effect until April 2026, including the new restrictions on large capacity feeding devices and prohibitions on assault-style firearms. Keep in mind the new restriction is on "assault-style firearms," whereas the old restriction--in place until April 2026, according to the above--applies to "assault weapons." So, if this is correct, the changes in definitions might take place in October of this year, but the new prohibitions on possession of them don't take place until nearly two years from now.

Disclaimer: I haven't had time to dig into this, it's very much a shoot-from-the-hip analysis (Dear Lord, forgive me that one) and this is an unofficial version of M.G.L.
Click to expand...
And it is in error - but it's your job to be correct or go to jail.
 
milktree said:
- Probably. Not enough data from the ATF yet. (right @CrackPot ?)
- Yes. Until then it's subject to the AWB.
- Anything you want after 10/22
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We have a lot of data. All my customers that have submitted Form 1s after 8/1 have been approved or are still pending. No denials because of any state level shenanigans.
 
pastera said:
And it is in error - but it's your job to be correct or go to jail.
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CAUTION!!!

The versions listed in your quoted reply were written by the "Law Library". Those folks are librarians, taking care of law books. They aren't lawyers and have no professional knowledge of MA gun laws. I highly recommend not using that info for "legal advise". It won't stand up in court.
 
CrackPot said:
Massive disconnect from what the law actually says. There are sections that are delayed. Section 38 and 75 of the act which translates to 140 125 and 140 131Q are delayed 18 months to 4/23/26

The version linked here would result in chaos. AWs are illegal but there is no longer a definition of AWs. 8/1/24 grandfathering does not take effect until 4/23/26 under this version so we have 18 months of selling stuff that would not be grandfathered. It really is a total and complete mess they have made of what was actually passed.
Click to expand...

Granted I only speak English but that it not how I read this interpretation. The way I read it is that it is illegal to possess or sell ANY Assualt Weapon except pre 9/13/94 "pre-bans" until 4/23/26. As of 4/23/26 the 8/1/24 grandfather date kicks in and only post 8/1/24 assualt weapons are illegal.

This of course makes no sense unless you possess a MA Progressive brain that believes

1. The only assualt weapons ever allowed legally in MA were those grandfathered in under the September 1994 Assualt Weapons ban.
2. Everything sold after September 1994 was illegally sold as a "MA compliant gun" under a flawed interpretation of the federal "evil features test" of the Federal AWB of 1994.
3. AG Healy issued an enforcement notice in 2016 announcing that all these post 1994 guns in MA were technically illegal and that she was now going to start enforcing that law going forward although she did post some FAQ's and letters telling people that she was not going after all the illegal guns sold before 2016 "at this time" because she was a fair minded individual and understood that while these evil gun dealers knew what they were doing was wrong all of us poor misguided gun owners were just confused.
4. We just passed a law that put an end to all possible misinterpretations and loopholes but again the people in power are kind individuals and are giving us a free pass on all the illegal shit that happened between 1994 and 2024 and now are telling us that we are being allowed to own these guns that are by law illegal however we will be required to register them when the new registration system is available.
5. There is some nebulous date of 4/23/26 contained in the law that we are allowed to use as factual law however we see fit.
 
spt_1955 said:
Granted I only speak English but that it not how I read this interpretation. The way I read it is that it is illegal to possess or sell ANY Assualt Weapon except pre 9/13/94 "pre-bans" until 4/23/26. As of 4/23/26 the 8/1/24 grandfather date kicks in and only post 8/1/24 assualt weapons are illegal.

This of course makes no sense unless you possess a MA Progressive brain that believes

1. The only assualt weapons ever allowed legally in MA were those grandfathered in under the September 1994 Assualt Weapons ban.
2. Everything sold after September 1994 was illegally sold as a "MA compliant gun" under a flawed interpretation of the federal "evil features test" of the Federal AWB of 1994.
3. AG Healy issued an enforcement notice in 2016 announcing that all these post 1994 guns in MA were technically illegal and that she was now going to start enforcing that law going forward although she did post some FAQ's and letters telling people that she was not going after all the illegal guns sold before 2016 "at this time" because she was a fair minded individual and understood that while these evil gun dealers knew what they were doing was wrong all of us poor misguided gun owners were just confused.
4. We just passed a law that put an end to all possible misinterpretations and loopholes but again the people in power are kind individuals and are giving us a free pass on all the illegal shit that happened between 1994 and 2024 and now are telling us that we are being allowed to own these guns that are by law illegal however we will be required to register them when the new registration system is available.
5. There is some nebulous date of 4/23/26 contained in the law that we are allowed to use as factual law however we see fit.
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You are giving too much thought into some librarians misreading of the new Act when they translated into MGL terms. It will get fixed.

The Act says the sections of the Act effecting 140 125 and 140 131Q are delayed 18 months. The librarian acted like it sayd 125 TO 131Q so grabbed all the pieces in between and made them 18 months.
 
spt_1955 said:
Granted I only speak English but that it not how I read this interpretation. The way I read it is that it is illegal to possess or sell ANY Assualt Weapon except pre 9/13/94 "pre-bans" until 4/23/26. As of 4/23/26 the 8/1/24 grandfather date kicks in and only post 8/1/24 assualt weapons are illegal.
Click to expand...

No. Until 10/23/2024 "assault weapons" as defined under the current/old laws are regulated exactly the same way they were a year ago. Features tests and everything.

If you believe they were legal to own a year ago, they're legal to own now.

If you believe Healey's 7/20/16 "clarification" has any legal weight, (nobody who's serious does) then either
- pre 7/20 "assault weapons" are OK because the AG won't prosecute and post 7/20 ones are not; or
- no "assault weapons" made after 9/13/94 are legal to own.

On 10/23/2024 there will be no such thing as an "assault weapon" in Massachusetts, as that definition will be deleted and replaced with one for "assault-style firearm", which is different (subtly) from the "assault weapon" definition. Anything that was possessed legally (see above) in Mass on 8/1/2024 that meets the criteria of "assault-style firearm" as defined in the new law is legal to own/possess, and there's no limit on the evil features you can have on it.

Anything that was not in Mass. on 8/1/2024 that meets the criteria of "assault-style firearm" will be illegal to possess, period.
 
Len-2A Training said:
CAUTION!!!

The versions listed in your quoted reply were written by the "Law Library". Those folks are librarians, taking care of law books. They aren't lawyers and have no professional knowledge of MA gun laws. I highly recommend not using that info for "legal advise". It won't stand up in court.
Click to expand...

This implies the existence of "law librarians" and a "law library"

Do they have access to the actual law with formatting and line numbers?
 
milktree said:
Right. But that's not what I'm looking for.

When legislation says, "in lines 23, 50, 18, and 384 replace the third instance of 'or' with 'and'" I want to be able to know what that means.

I want the official version of CURRENT law with official formatting and line numbers.
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It appears that we're looking for the "Official Edition of the General Laws of Massachusetts." The state library has what should be the final laws/acts though. Maybe at this link somewhere?: Acts and Resolves
 
Years ago I used to attend lawyers meetings at the Norfolk County Law Library. From my recollection, they have law books just like any of the college law libraries plus online access to case law. The books are mostly written by Westlaw and wouldn't have line numbers. Each county has a law library, usually co-existing in one of the courthouses. Norfolk's is in the courthouse directly across the street from superior court the last time I was there.
milktree said:
This implies the existence of "law librarians" and a "law library"

Do they have access to the actual law with formatting and line numbers?
Click to expand...
 

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