Practical Implications of H4885 for Purchasing and Possessing

[HorizontalHunter]

This is important. Even for those of us that can or will basically ignore most of it, it's still devastating. It makes it immeasurably more difficult to encourage others to get into gun ownership, regardless of their motives. It's very easy for one to say "ehh screw it im not bothering".

A feature not a bug.

John Velis said the quiet part out loud

 

[MaroonedinMA]

What does §121F(s)(iii) mean then?

Thank you, that was the law I was referring to. Of course, IANAL and all that...

 

[pastera]

Dang, look like am screwed.what do I do now?

Nothing - they aren't going to come get your guns.
And if you have a receipt for payment and they bag you for carry then you get standing to go after them.
It honestly takes 5 minutes to enter your info - that they don't do a renewal as you wait is just to make it as painful as possible.

 

[pastera]

What does §121F(s)(iii) mean then?

The law and what the police do are two different things
You wouldn't be arrested for carrying within those 90 days but in most cities you're not going home with your gun.

Carrying on expired license after the 90 days is a civil fine - but again, they are going to make it difficult for you.

Remember that 90 days is supposed to easily cover the 40 days to get your license issued - how is that working out for most of us.

 

[milktree]

It appears that H.4885 makes it illegal to keep your old LTCs and FIDs.

§121F(t) Any person in possession of a license to carry issued under sections 131 or firearm
identification card issued under section 129B whose respective license or card is
invalid for the sole reason that it has expired, not including licenses and cards that
remain valid under subsection (s), and not otherwise disqualified from renewal upon
application, shall be subject to a fine of not less than $100 nor more than $5,000 and
section 10 of chapter 269 shall not apply;

§131(m) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 10 of chapter 269, any person
in possession of a firearm, rifle or shotgun whose license issued under this section
is invalid for the sole reason that it has expired, not including licenses that remain
valid under paragraph (i)because the licensee applied for renewal before the license
expired,but who shall not be disqualified from renewal upon application therefor
pursuant to this section, shall be subject to a civil fine of not less than $100 nor more
than $5,000 and the provisions of section10 of chapter 269 shall not apply;

See the difference? The old law only applies if you are in possession of a gun.

The new law doesn't say anything about guns, it's purely a violation to be in possession of an expired LTC or FID.

This is either a colossal f***up because they didn't mean that, or it's absolutely evil.

Keeping that old LTC still protects you from C. 269 §10, but they can fine you up to $5k just for having an expired LTC or FID.

 

[sig shooter]

Well my ltc expire in december,and worcester pd gave me an appointment to renew in Jan 20 2025 May be they too busy taking care of all the new ltc people. Dang it, I was told by the cop to lock up all my guns in the safe when my ltc expire in december.
I was told by some redneck that I can renew by mail,not sure if this is true or not.

You should try to get this in writing from the Shitbirds at Worcester PD.

 

[Hardwired]

Good example, I was at the range the other day, there's a member who is there all the time, an older guy and all I really ever see him shoot is bolts, 1911's and revolvers and thats cool, in fact he has some really nice older smiths. We get to talking about stuff and even though he had a vague idea that the new law had passed most of what he did know was wrong and I got the feeling he just didn't care because a lot of it won't really effect him. I suspect there are a lot of people just like this guy in MA.

Print this out and give it to him the next time you see him. A tax assessor peeked in a window of his home and red flagged him. Looks like he was going thru his collection, had to leave unexpectedly, house was locked. If a moonbat sees scary bolt actions and bayonets well…
Massachusetts Police Seize Guns & Shells From 65-Year-Old For Improper Storage

 

[6Gears1Speed]

I'm pretty sure that there is a 90 day grace period on your old LTC even if the PO just sits on it til after expiration without actually processing it and providing you with a MIRCs receipt. If they do actually provide you with a receipt you're GTG for as long as it take to receive. All that said you might have some dealers who won't sell to you and definitely the big box stores, but other than that, you're fine. Go shoot and be happy.

This is what I was told at last renewal because they were backed up. Once my renewal was submitted the LO said I can continue carrying while it's in process.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Well my ltc expire in december,and worcester pd gave me an appointment to renew in Jan 20 2025 May be they too busy taking care of all the new ltc people. Dang it, I was told by the cop to lock up all my guns in the safe when my ltc expire in december.
I was told by some redneck that I can renew by mail,not sure if this is true or not.

Nope, they process ltc by appointment only,there a lock on the pd door, can not just walk in there.
Wut really got me mad is that I did call then back in late july,was told that am too early to schedule my ltc renew appointment with them. Soo I went on a nice vacation, come back and called em few days ago and got my ltc renew appointment in Jan 20

@Darksideblues42 @Rob Boudrie
I'm sure your team is slammed, but do you guys have any insight on Worcester? Refusing a renewal app then offering a date after expiry sounds like a slam dunk when even Boston does renewals online now...

 

[vcman]

@Darksideblues42 @Rob Boudrie
I'm sure your team is slammed, but do you guys have any insight on Worcester? Refusing a renewal app then offering a date after expiry sounds like a slam dunk when even Boston does renewals online now...

Wow,ltc can be renew online now, that a new one.ill check out wpd webpage to see if they can do it over the web

 

[milktree]

Here's a good one for y'all:

A recent safety course student had an appointment with the Lowell PD to apply for his LTC scheduled for late September. They called him and rescheduled to 10/23. Yes. The effective day of the new laws. They hung up on him before he could ask any questions.

Maybe this is just a coincidence because someone got sick and they have to push everyone out to later dates, or maybe they deliberately rescheduled to force him to wait and to take the new course with all the new requirements.

I'm guessing the latter. Not clear if the Lowell PD thought that up on their own, or if someone from the state told them to do it.

 

[JoeTbn]

Hoping someone can answer two questions I have. I live in MA and have an LTC-A. My brother who lives in NY gave me 2 80% lowers a while back. Am I still allowed to possess them, and will I just need proof that I possessed them before 08-01-24? Should I build them out now, and will that be legal? If I do that would I need to serialize and register them?

Second thing, I inherited 2 handguns from my dad. A 1911 and a High Standard .22. I never recorded a transfer, because inherited pistols didn’t require it. Will I need to register them now, and how do I do that if I have no record of it? (I drove them up from WV, and didn’t go through a dealer)

Thanks.

 

[milktree]

Hoping someone can answer two questions I have. I live in MA and have an LTC-A. My brother who lives in NY gave me 2 80% lowers a while back. Am I still allowed to possess them, and will I just need proof that I possessed them before 08-01-24? Should I build them out now, and will that be legal? If I do that would I need to serialize and register them?

- Yes you can possess them.
- It will be impossible for the state to prove you didn’t possess them in Mass. on 8/1; it is not your responsibility to prove anything.
- You don’t need to build them now. If you build them now you will have to eFA10 them as soon as they can go “bang”.
- Within a year of the new registration database going live you will have to register them with the state if they fall within the new definition of “firearm”. There’s some debate as to whether an unfinished 80% counts.
- If you don’t have serial numbers on them by then you will be required to get a serial number from the state. If you engrave a serial number before then you can pick any number and letter combination you want. It just had to be in at least 1/16” high text and at least 0.003” deep. There are a bunch of gunsmiths who wil do this for you if you go that route.

Second thing, I inherited 2 handguns from my dad. A 1911 and a High Standard .22. I never recorded a transfer, because inherited pistols didn’t require it.

This is not true. You didn’t need to go through an FFL, but the transaction recording requirements via FA10 still exist.

Will I need to register them now, and how do I do that if I have no record of it?

The new registration retirements for all firearms as defined by the new C. 140 §121 are the same regardless of how you can to possess them: within one year of the roll out of the new registration system.

 

[rogersmithiii]

Be aware that even though you might be legally entitled to buy and own it in MA, the day that you retire or leave the agency, you no longer are legal in MA. Retirees in MA (I was one, now safely in NH) do not rate those same privileges. If there is a chance that you might be transferred to another location out of MA during your tenure, it might be wise to just wait for that to happen. A very good friend is with DHS and as soon as he got transferred back to VA, he ordered a couple of (ASW) rifles and an SBR.

To some of you folks that hate everyone who wears a badge: There are some bad apples just like in any line of work, but most are decent folks. Any that venture here and expose themselves are very likely "gun people" like the rest of us and aren't at all likely to be "jack booted thugs".

The problem is that the police leadership were all in support of this law. Hard to support an agency that sold us out.

 

[LuvDog]

- If you don’t have serial numbers on them by then you will be required to get a serial number from the state. If you engrave a serial number before then you can pick any number and letter combination you want. It just had to be in at least 1/16” high text and at least 0.003” deep. There are a bunch of gunsmiths who wil do this for you if you go that route.

This part confuses me a bit. If you do serialize one and do it before Oct, then you can pick any S/N you want, but after you need to use the state's format.

How do you "record/register" your serial number now? are we saying the eFA10 is the system of record?

 

[DJBrad]

How do you "record/register" your serial number now? are we saying the eFA10 is the system of record?

There is no registration in Ma. Only transactions. If you built it you have 7 days to report it. How would the state know?

After 10/23 there is no EFA10. It is unknown how one would “register” anything since there is no existing system in place since the new law gives 1 year from 10/23/24 for the state to create it. The option to choose your own is so you don’t have to wait for the system to go live and produce a serial number for you (which requires more info on type and production of the firearm). Will they deny the serial number based on those factors??? Who knows.

If an 80% you can serialize it before 10/23 or don’t do a thing as it is……..an 80%.

 

[MAJoe]

This part confuses me a bit. If you do serialize one and do it before Oct, then you can pick any S/N you want, but after you need to use the state's format.

How do you "record/register" your serial number now? are we saying the eFA10 is the system of record?

If you serialize an 80 now, I don’t believe there’s any requirement to record that. It can’t fire a shot and does not meet the definition of a firearm.

 

[pastera]

Hoping someone can answer two questions I have. I live in MA and have an LTC-A. My brother who lives in NY gave me 2 80% lowers a while back.
Am I still allowed to possess them, and will I just need proof that I possessed them before 08-01-24?

Yes you can possess them legally
The state must prove you didn't possess them on 8/1
You can just have your brother affirm that he gave them to you prior to that date.

Should I build them out now, and will that be legal? If I do that would I need to serialize and register them?

If you build them now and serialize then you get to pick the serial number
I suggest FUMA1776XX as a series
You don't need to eFA10 until it is mated to an upper.
Eventually you will need to register unless this crap gets overturned

Second thing, I inherited 2 handguns from my dad. A 1911 and a High Standard .22. I never recorded a transfer, because inherited pistols didn’t require it. Will I need to register them now, and how do I do that if I have no record of it? (I drove them up from WV, and didn’t go through a dealer)

Thanks.

You could "register" them in the portal now
Or just wait until the new portal is in place - that's when you will legally be required to do so.
Again, hopefully we will overturn this well before that time.

Edit: fix the tags - pain in the ass to do on a phone let alone while on a plane taxiing to/from the gate

 

[milktree]

This part confuses me a bit. If you do serialize one and do it before Oct, then you can pick any S/N you want, but after you need to use the state's format.

Don't get too hung up on Oct. 23 in this context. You have a year from when the new database comes online to register stuff. There's literally no way for the state to know when you engrave the serial number. Yes, pick anything you want that's A-Z, 0-9. I believe you cannot use any special characters (&%!@#$, etc.) or any non Latin alphabet characters. You can use spaces and dashes on the engraving, but they're not part of the serial number. But for sure A-Z, 0-9 is safe.

I don't know if we'll be required to engrave a model and manufacturer and caliber with the serial number, or if a serial number is good enough. Perhaps @pastera or @CrackPot will have some insight.

How do you "record/register" your serial number now? are we saying the eFA10 is the system of record?

You don't. Unless you want to eFA10 it, but why bother? The eFA10 system will be gone in a couple months.

Funny thing: The actual current law as written does not allow for "registration" using the eFA10 system. It explicitly says, "in writing", unlike the sale part of the law where it explicitly says, "online portal"

 

[chris_1001]

This part confuses me a bit. If you do serialize one and do it before Oct, then you can pick any S/N you want, but after you need to use the state's format.

How de we get a/the State S/N on 10/23?

I'm SURE they will not have that in place...

 

[chris_1001]

Don't get too hung up on Oct. 23 in this context. You have a year from when the new database comes online to register stuff. There's literally no way for the state to know when you engrave the serial number. Yes, pick anything you want that's A-Z, 0-9. I believe you cannot use any special characters (&%!@#$, etc.) or any non Latin alphabet characters. You can use spaces and dashes on the engraving, but they're not part of the serial number. But for sure A-Z, 0-9 is safe.

I don't know if we'll be required to engrave a model and manufacturer and caliber with the serial number, or if a serial number is good enough. Perhaps @pastera or @CrackPot will have some insight.



You don't. Unless you want to eFA10 it, but why bother? The eFA10 system will be gone in a couple months.

Funny thing: The actual current law as written does not allow for "registration" using the eFA10 system. It explicitly says, "in writing", unlike the sale part of the law where it explicitly says, "online portal"

Beat me.... Ignore my post above

 

[milktree]

If you build them now and serialize then you get to pick the serial number
I suggest FUMA1776XX as a series

Is there any reason to use a series?

e.g.: FUMA1776, FA10D498133, thereoncewasamanfromnantucketwhohadadickthesizeofabucket, LOLMALAWS,

 

[Rockrivr1]

After 10/23 there is no EFA10. It is unknown how one would “register” anything since there is no existing system in place since the new law gives 1 year from 10/23/24 for the state to create it.

I've been wondering about this part of the new law. I'm sure there is no direction at this point, but what are gun stores supposed to do for a gun sale after 10/23 if the EFA-10 system goes down/away on that date. Just do the 4473 and call it a day or are they tied up in some unknown and can't sell guns at all until something is in place?

 

[chris_1001]

any reason we cant all use the same SN?

FU-01 (02, 03 etc) for consecutive personal builds)?

This way we have a few thousand of the same SN

 

[DJBrad]

I've been wondering about this part of the new law. I'm sure there is no direction at this point, but what are gun stores supposed to do for a gun sale after 10/23 if the EFA-10 system goes down/away on that date. Just do the 4473 and call it a day or are they tied up in some unknown and can't sell guns at all until something is in place?

4473 is the trusted paper trail. That is the solid proof of ownership pre 8/2 too.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I've been wondering about this part of the new law. I'm sure there is no direction at this point, but what are gun stores supposed to do for a gun sale after 10/23 if the EFA-10 system goes down/away on that date. Just do the 4473 and call it a day or are they tied up in some unknown and can't sell guns at all until something is in place?

I'm 100% certain that none of the required databases, training procedures, etc. will be in place by 10/23. Gov't doesn't move that quickly!! I'm also 100% certain that they won't dismantle the eFA-10 system prior to the new system going on line sometime in the mostly distant future. So that is what people will be using for the foreseeable future.

4473 is the trusted paper trail. That is the solid proof of ownership pre 8/2 too.

Not really. That is a Fed document and per the Fed law, is only releasable to the Feds, not local or state authorities. Of course, we've seen where locals will bring BATFE with them if a dealer quotes the law to them, so the locals will get what they want anyway.

 

[pastera]

There is no registration in Ma. Only transactions. If you built it you have 7 days to report it. How would the state know?

After 10/23 there is no EFA10. It is unknown how one would “register” anything since there is no existing system in place since the new law gives 1 year from 10/23/24 for the state to create it. The option to choose your own is so you don’t have to wait for the system to go live and produce a serial number for you (which requires more info on type and production of the firearm). Will they deny the serial number based on those factors??? Who knows.

If an 80% you can serialize it before 10/23 or don’t do a thing as it is……..an 80%.

I really can't stand this BS - about the same as saying your wife didn't really cheat if her side piece wore a rubber.
Yes, Mass has a de facto gun registration. After this new law takes effect it will have a completely compulsory registration.

Also after this thing takes effect is not an 80% paperweight, it is an illegal, unfinished assault-style firearm (unless covered by the 8/1 exemption).

The options to register a privately manufactured firearm have yet to be revealed - once the portal is online you are required to request a serial before starting the manufacturing process.
So the serial number process becomes a new license that doesn't have a statutory timeline - like your LTC the serial request could take many months or could simply not be funded and make it all but impossible to get a serial number assigned.

 

[pastera]

How de we get a/the State S/N on 10/23?

I'm SURE they will not have that in place...

You make up your own
Or you wait until they create the portal then request one
Or do whatever you want

 

[DJBrad]

I really can't stand this BS - about the same as saying your wife didn't really cheat if her side piece wore a rubber.
Yes, Mass has a de facto gun registration. After this new law takes effect it will have a completely compulsory registration.

Also after this thing takes effect is not an 80% paperweight, it is an illegal, unfinished assault-style firearm (unless covered by the 8/1 exemption).

The options to register a privately manufactured firearm have yet to be revealed - once the portal is online you are required to request a serial before starting the manufacturing process.
So the serial number process becomes a new license that doesn't have a statutory timeline - like your LTC the serial request could take many months or could simply not be funded and make it all but impossible to get a serial number assigned.

You’re too hung up on words and feelings rather than law. Show me the Ma law where there is gun registration.

 

[pastera]

any reason we cant all use the same SN?

FU-01 (02, 03 etc) for consecutive personal builds)?

This way we have a few thousand of the same SN

Until 10/23, you can choose any number you want as long as you follow the federal guidelines
After, you need to request and use what the state provides - forced speech.